Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums banner

Dear GM, (counterpoint)

13K views 68 replies 26 participants last post by  Zotic 
#1 ·
Perhaps DC is turning into the C7 haters club? I thought I'd lend my voice, (albeit a newbie) to present a counterpoint.

Dear GM,
Thanks for engineering such a kick-ass new C7 Vette!

Thanks for not making a "C6.5"!

I love the new technologies employed, and I love the provocative styling, reminds me of a jet fighter!

The C7 is the best Corvette in years! You guys at GM sure know how to shake things up a bit. Gone is the stodgy old GM. You didn't rest on your collective laurels! You didn't play it safe, you took a step towards the future, which we must do, to stay on top.

This base C7 is great, as much power as a Gen2 Viper.

The ZO6 and ZR1 C7s are gonna rock the world!

Hooray for GM, hooray for America!
 
#2 ·
Exactly right!

I went to a ferrari event last night at a local car club. It was a dinner/speaking/slideshow event at a local vintage car club garage that had invited the local ferrari club.

At my table was a famous Ferrari photographer, several ferrari drivers, and a guy who is president of the local Viper club and just released a book of Viper photography.

What did we talk about over dinner? Well, several things, but the thing we spent the longest on wasn't ferrari's or vipers at all. It was the C7, and how they got to see it at the detroit auto show - and the guy got his phone out and showed us his personal pictures.

Everyone at the table loved it - which is surprising given it was a traditionally snobby ferrari crowd, and a Viper club president. People began comparing it to the new Viper, the GTR, and the Ferrari F12 -- all of which, I think, are wonderful comments to the new C7 styling.

Before I even made it to the dinner table, I walked up to a different group of guys near the bar, and they were talking about.... the new C7.

Everytime a manufacturer breaks with tradition, some of the old guard feels outraged about one thing or another (flippy headlights anyone, lol??) -- there's just no avoiding that. But, it's what you have to do from time to time to expand your market and keep your products relevant.

It seems that a lot of people who aren't traditional vette fans (myself included) absolutely love Corvette's new direction. There are also plenty of current vette fans that cant wait for the C7, so GM has nothing to be worried about.

Again, job well done.
 
#3 ·
Once the C7 start's rolling down the road 90% of the haters will change their minds. You cannot get a feel for a car from pics, or videos posted online. A lot of people disliked the C6, still do, but I bet a lot of those haters changed their mind when they saw them rolling down the road.
 
#5 ·
Eh, I wouldn't call myself a hater of the C6 but I still don't like them. IMO they need the widebody to look right. Not trying to stir **** in this thread but I'm sure there will be an amount of guys that will never like it. Some because they really don't and others because they showed their asses so bad they can't backtrack now.
 
#7 ·
Great post! So true! It is an amazing Vette and GM should be proud of the new design.

For a model to last it must evolve to keep the love affair going with past owner and to attract new customers.

We heard the same kind of stuff when the C-6 came out with fixed headlights. Seriously, people wanted to keep those pop up headlights that were a design feature of so many cars in the 80's?

If it really was a purist thing, then all Vettes should have six cylinders and automatics and be available only in white with a red interior.

Can't wait to get a new C7. Congrats GM!:thumbsup:
 
#9 ·
:agree:
And people seem to forget... the C1 did NOT have round tail lights (until the back end redesign before C2).
And yes, I know I was one of the ones who discussed the "ugly rear end" before the release, but I admit that I am now in the "the real thing is much better then the renderings" camp. I don't love the back, but I'm far from hating it. I think if the tear drop vents next to the lights were eliminated (reroute the air flow to the lower vents and enlarge/reshape them as needed to accommodate...tastefully), that would be enough to make all the difference; and the only one needed. But as is, the back is no deal breaker for me because I absolutely love the rest of it.
And for full disclosure, since although I come to DC daily, and have been for years, I don't comment much so no one knows me; I am almost exactly the demographic GM was targeting with C7: I'm 34, went back to school for a career change (mechanical engineering), and will be looking to "reward" myself when I get my degree. I love all types of cars, from hot rods, to the 458 Italia. I am part of the "Gran Tourismo and Forza generation" that they have been trying to get for years. The only aspect of the demographic that I am not a part of is that I am already a Chevy and Corvette fan, they didn't have to do much to win me over, although this can be considered part of it; they still wanted it to "be a Corvette." I am also influential with my peers when it comes to cars (but not much else :laughing:) and this is the first time I've had people around my age and younger ask me and/or show interest in modern Corvettes. For example, I had a long discussion with a fellow car nut and younger classmate about the C7 and showed him some stuff online he had not yet seen and he was excited about it, and this is a guy who has been a Honda guy since he's had his license; Civics, now an S2000, but all done tastefully, not a typical ricer guy. I've been a car nut my whole life, and specifically into Corvettes since my late teens (always liked them, but coming from a poor family, I viewed them as "out of reach" when younger), and this is the first time my generation as a whole is truly excited about the new Corvette.:cheers:
 
#10 ·
....I think its great that you certainly like the new version
and admire GM for their innovation, but I also see that you
by your own measure fall into the 10% that can feasible go
out and purchase a $50,000+ vehicle as an "reward" for
their achievements I'm happy for you, I too came from a
financially strapped home enjoyed looking at and one time
sitting in a C1 as a young boy, but my excitement had to
wait 50+ years in order to obtain a Corvette and knowing
this would be my only chance at 60 years of age I had no
qualms about the 92 square taillights but also entertain
a thought of trading to a model I completely liked....

...but I think GM is trying to attract those customers that
see the imports design as attractive styling while trying
to incorporate that into the corvette, the imports brought
that style in this country with focusing rather on its
performance than style, and GM has walked away form its
sleek styling of the C3's.....

...actually I have not seen any indication of "this is the first time my generation as a whole is truly excited about the new Corvette"....

.... it just an old mans opinion....:cheers:

...Enjoy your new ride to the fullest, you earned it.....:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
#14 ·
...actually I have not seen any indication of "this is the first time my generation as a whole is truly excited about the new Corvette"....

.... it just an old mans opinion....:cheers:
I'm in the same boat as the poster you were responding to. I'm almost 30, I'm out of school and working as a professional, paying off my loans, bought a GM car for my wife, about to assume a mortgage, and plan to upgrade to the C7 in the fall as soon as I can get my hands on the one I'm slated for on the dealer waiting list. All of this falls within our rather conservative and reasonable financial planning.

I think his post, my post, and all of the anecdotal evidence I've encountered really suggest a shift in attitude toward the corvette. Unlike the poster above who admits he's always been a corvette guy, I'm probably more typical of my generation in that I've had nothing but complete apathy toward the vette or GM's offerings until this year.

Even now, when I excitedly share with some of my friends that I'm going to upgrade to the new Stingray, some of them have a really judgmental look on their face - like "You're going to get rid of a BMW and drive a .... corvette??" It doesn't really have a desirable ring to it amongst most people in my generation.

Then, I grab out my tablet and start showing them the pictures and predicted performance specs. People are highly impressed and they want to know more - so it becomes a full-blown topic of the evening. We pretty much all agree that the rear is the weakest part of the car (not because of the lights) but several people actually defended it to me - which is a bizarre way to end a discussion that started with them wondering why the hell I would even want something like the corvette.

So, there's that example - and then in another thread here, I posted about a ferrari and vintage car club dinner I went to the other night where all sorts of people, young and old, were already engaged in very positive and excited discussions about the car.


So, I dont suggest that my own experiences count as evidence for you, but it is definitely out there. My generation wants to drive predominantly german cars (with a few guys going after lexus). Now, all of a sudden, after telling some friends about my C7 plans - at lease one of my friends is strongly considering one. Another friend, who frequently brags about his BMW M3, has now declared that he's probably going to upgrade to a Nissan GTR (which makes me roll on the floor laughing, because he couldn't stand the thought that my Stingray would smoke him, so he's going to spend nearly double what I am, at $100k plus, just to keep up with us vette Jonses.

The evidence is there, you just have to see it. The people excited by the car definitely include a younger demographic for the first time in a long time. The only people truly upset and outraged by the rear tend to be older vette purists, and you probably can't do any serious updating of the car without rocking the boat with those folks. GM did the right thing by being a little gutsy with this restyling yet remaining true to the car overall.
 
#8 ·
:agree: I know it's impossible NOT to compare the Stingray to Ferraris, Vipers, etc. But GM filled it with the newest technology top to bottom and kept the base car in the $50k range. That is quite an accomplishment for a car this advanced and with the performance it is going to have. It's beautiful, it's fast, and it's in a price range that will make it accessible. :thumbsup:
 
#11 ·
Time will tell, but I think as soon as the magazines start performance testing the C7, a lot of minds will change.
 
#23 ·
Perhaps DC is turning into the C7 haters club? I thought I'd lend my voice, (albeit a newbie) to present a counterpoint.

If that's your perception, you are mistaken. The real truth is that DC lets EVERYONE post their opinions without the biased censorship you see over at that other forum. If DC was a haters club, I'd have killed this thread and sent it to the junkyard - along with any other thread that is C7 positive. We don't do things like that.

Over at that other forum, those that don't like the C7 have to post their opinions as if walking on eggs. Here, no personal attacks are allowed, but other than that, both sides are free to fully discuss and explore the issues.

What you are really seeing at DC is the real life disagreement about the C7 rather than a manipulated skew seen elsewhere.
 
#25 ·
It's a shame that GM made such an exciting car that Ferrari owners are talking about and are going to be rushing out to buy and drive to their Ferrari dinners, that has a great looking front and side profile and then end it in such a strange way! Isn't a car design supposed to be awesome ALL THE WAY AROUND the vehicle? If the back had been a better design I would have seriously thought about owning a C7, but I just don't get nor will I ever get the design of the rear as it is. It isn't about round taillights either! I don't mind the taillights as much as I do the masked-bandit airvents and the 4 HUGE round exhaust tips that are totally out of place on a vehicle that has as many angles as the C7 does!!
 
#30 ·
To be fair and accurate, the 1958, 1959, and 1960 round lights were covered by a red lens+chrome that made them not round. And the C5 taillights were oval, but of course still round.

Therefore, three out of the 60 years of vettes weren't actually round or "squarish" round (93-96).

However, taillights aside, the rest of the C7 rear is an ugly
mess.

1956


1957


1958


1960


1961


C2


C3


1993-96


C5


C6


C7
 
#60 ·
First and foremost, I have a C7 on order. I am not sure how many of the C7 admirers do? That aside, I am happy for those who plan to buy the car and love it.

But I just have one question, how can you be head over heels excited about a car that

A) is 15 years and counting behind the times on the most important performance advancement of the last 2 decades - a proper modern paddle shifted transmission. We have tech dating to the 50's here.
B) has sacrificed so much performance for fuel economy. Added weight, reduced performance through smaller tires, presumably reduced engine output (the potential of the LT1 is far greater than 450, leading me to wonder if GM is sandbagging or if they de-tuned it to improve MPG). And further, they wasted the 7 speed tranny. Its still a 4 speed with overdrives, only now we have 3 overdrives.
C) Has 3 dozen polygons comprising its rear styling in such a discordant way that I struggle to imagine that many people look at it and think "yeah!". Not a single exotic car has ever looked so busy back there, that I can think of.

The big tech additions to the C7 are just playing catch up. Active rev match has been in Nissans since 08 or 09. The Vette will be at most the third party to release it (Porsche also). The super-stiff frame ... folks, I'm not sure that 57% stiffer is even close to state of the art, the C6 was not particularily rigid compared to, say, a European car of (admittedly more expense) similar performance. Then we have a pile of tech aimed at mileage, which seems just unlikely to matter to Vette buyers when Vettes already had the best mileage of anything as fast as they were. Direct injection is just commonplace now, nothing to boast about. The Electronic diff showed up in a Nissan Skyline 15 years ago or more, standard stuff on Ferraris for almost 10, etc etc etc. Its a fantastic piece of tech, but its still just playing catch up. Rear weight bias? Still just playing catch up to most everybody else, except lower-rent muscle cars. Interior? Still playing catch-up and we will see if its executed well or not.

Do I think the C7 will be the best car at its price? No doubt. Do I think its possible that some people honestly believe that its beautiful? Of course, somebody thinks Nikki Minaj's butt implants are beautiful. Beauty is subjective, totally.

But, AND THIS IS AN HONEST QUESTION, what, WHAT is so glorious about what we've learned about the C7 thus far that it warrants genuine thrilled excitement? Besides the design, which everybody who loves must acknowledge is polarizing at best and probably not a future classic

You thrilled to death that they added a fair bit of weight to the car for mileage, and wasted the 7th speed, for mileage? Does that thrill anybody? You thrilled that they are literally 2 decades behind in a proper modern tranny?

I will truly ponder anybodies answer, but what is there to be thrilled about here?

I will say that the displays of the C7 should be, literally and truly, THE state of the art in modern sports cars when it hits the street. The combo of multiple LCDs and the HUD ... it will be the best that their is.

And the small block? There's nothing it has to catch up to. Hasn't been in many years. It is an epic powerplant for a sports car. I just wish they would really let it rip. Build an NA small block of no more weight than some Eurotrash V8 that makes more power etc.

But by and large, the complaints of people are not insane or irrational, they are quite the opposite. They missed the boat on a great many things, some important things. To some extent, we have a Corprius here.

oh and ps, GM, I am not thrilled. I'm in my thirties and I've owned 5 exotic European sports cars. Your target market is not universally pleased with you, fyi
 
#62 ·
AND THIS IS AN HONEST QUESTION, what, WHAT is so glorious about what we've learned about the C7 thus far that it warrants genuine thrilled excitement?
Personally, this is the reason why I don't think it deserves (so far) to carry the "Stingray" name. The C5 deserved to be called Stingray more than the C7 in my opinion. I'm thinking that the name was just a marketing move.

Apart from all that, I'm sure it's a great car that will give it's future owners miles of smiles.
 
#65 ·
Well a few reasons. First, I've never had a "new" car before, I've always waited for prices to come down, as I detest losing insane amounts of money. In this case I got a deal just under MSRP, so it won't be that bad of a loss, well unless my local dealer doesn't get one for forever, and by then everybody else is discounting.

Second, there really isn't anything else worth considering at its price point. I have no real love for muscle cars, never have. I like sports cars. I TRULY love Boxsters, but not for the price of a new one. A Boxster is worth about $30k to me, I've had a couple of them, I would love to have one again. And also, the Cayman/Boxster have always been the best at what they are great at, straight back to the 986. No other car feels so good to drive, and the improvements in that don't justify paying $80k for a car that's heading, quickly, to a trade in value of $20k. They just aren't special enough to justify buying new, or is, in my opinion, any 911.

I bought my GT-R new, but that is a supercar, that is a unique piece of equipment with a place in history, and its not nearly as bizzare looking as the C7, lol. I bought my C6Z new, but again you have a truly special car there, one with a place in history, and neither of those cars did or will cost me much to own, as they hold their value so well.

I would never buy a new Ferrari unless I just decided I had $200k too much money and needed to get rid of it. I got a screaming deal on my 09 lp560, in 09, but that was the recession and nobody wanted exotic cars just then, hence the deal.

3. I actually have a use for the Corprius, if the run-crap tires don't cause insane tire howl, or if there is a replacement for them. I have to drive about 200 miles between businesses literally 2 times per week, it'd be nice to do it in a fun car once in awhile.

4. I currently only have an S2000 for a car with a stick shift, so in way the C7s complete failure at having anything that resembles a proper modern transmission fits into my life. I absolutely love driving stick shift, I just acknowledge that its nowhere near state of the art.

5. Mostly. I have loved Corvettes most of my life, even as the poorest kid in town, and especially as the owner of some C6s. I wanted the C7 to be unbelievable, to showcase what a small block can really do to an even greater extreme than the C6 did, to pound a nail in the skull of Vette haters. Instead they made it a prius, they made the rear end so bizzare looking that I can't quite get a grip on how anybody could love it, and so on.

To be honest, getting another C6z06 could satisfy 2, 3, and 4, and 5 - the C6Z is really just a set of non-run-crap-crapyear tires from being a proper touring car (and having more grip). But not one. I guess I could hold out for the Gallardo replacement, I imagine I could get in line for one, but I won't pay $50 or 100k over sticker for anything. Don't know if I have enough pull at the dealer to get MSRP, guessing I don't.

Don't' think I don't consider cancelling my order from time to time. I do, and maybe I will just eat that deposit. But for now, my plans are to purchase the C7.

In all black, to hide the design atrocities, and then black out the lights to further hide them.

and,

6. I supsect the car will be really nice to drive. The narrow tires should make it less intimidating to a driver of moderate talent like myself. I think I'm well above average, but far below great. I won an autocross once, and I can drive a bit, but in no way, no how, am I close to as fast as alot of guys at track days. Some guys could drive a Mustang GT a whole lot faster than I could drive a ZR1... that kind of thing. The E-Diff is a brilliant piece of tech, although that brilliance isn't Chevy's, as I noted above.

7. I'm just curious what the car is like, and I want to know.

8. I want my place in line in case the Z06 version is something truly amazing.

9. Maybe mosmt importantly, I'm American, I really don't want to have to buy foreign cars. I'd be happier sending my money to some chaps from Kentucky. It is that loyalty that allows the Corvette designers to be so far behind the times, so far off the curve, to make such a ridiculous rear end, and still find success. They exist because of my/our patriotism, and I suppose that sense of country will let them die thinking they did amazing things. Shame, that.

I guess thats about it.
 
#66 ·
Don't get me wrong, I DETEST the design. It is ricey, try-hard beyond belief, and the comment that "every line matters" is the single most preposterous marketing statement GM has made yet.

From the handling of the black A pillars to the painted C pillars to the stripes on the roof to the rear, which I consider the greatest design disaster in my lifetime. The Aztek was not nearly that bad. Some of the design has potential, its just that they axe-murdered all the details. I am almost convinced drugs have to have been involved.

And the failure to have a modern transmission is ridiculous. I can only hope they intend to rectify this a few years out to goad previous buyers into buying again. Thats the GM way, after all. We are just numbers to them, folks, we are not important customers. That'd be BMW or any European marque, but not GM.
 
#68 ·
It must be nice to have sooooo much money that you can throw it away on a car that you DETEST!!! I don't like the C7 and sure wouldn't spend my hard-earned money on it!!! You can give a skunk a bath and put cologne on it.....and it's still a skunk!!! Getting one in black won't hide the fact it's ugly!!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top