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Old 11-16-2012, 02:12 PM   #16
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I understand what you're attempting to say and you're right... about large corporations! What I'm trying to get across, and this is also supported by many reams of data, is that the US economy is NOT driven by the corporate taxes of these few large corporations... it's driven by the many hundreds of thousands of small to medium sized businesses that DON'T have the ability to find and and take advantage of those tax loopholes! I've been in small to medium sized business environments all my life (I just happen to now work for a larger one) and I can tell you handily that the corporate tax payment is one that is made every year with great pain! There has been a great push in this nation to demonize "big business" when it isn't even "big business" that causes our economy to thrive and grow!
Valid argument on the SMBs! Unfortunately, the organization that formerly represented companies in this category has been co-opted by the multinationals. Yes, it is the Chamber of Commerce!

I worked 35 years for two large corporations. Whenever the economy would contract, we'd go downstream to take business from SMBs, mainly by setting up fronts using women, minority, and veteran small businesses. The agency tasked with promoting small business would identify the company, and send them to us along with the contract.

The entire system is rampant with fraud, waste, and abuse!
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:59 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by MayZ View Post
Valid argument on the SMBs! Unfortunately, the organization that formerly represented companies in this category has been co-opted by the multinationals. Yes, it is the Chamber of Commerce!

I worked 35 years for two large corporations. Whenever the economy would contract, we'd go downstream to take business from SMBs, mainly by setting up fronts using women, minority, and veteran small businesses. The agency tasked with promoting small business would identify the company, and send them to us along with the contract.

The entire system is rampant with fraud, waste, and abuse!
EXACTLY!! You're actually helping me make my point! Small businesses are being attacked from two fronts... ugly competition from larger corporations and the tax system of the federal government. The economy of this country was originally concieved around the notion that anyone could start a business and even FAIL without consequence (in most cases). All that would be lost was you and your partner's investment and time. You could even pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try again! That's why we need to protect small to medium sized businesses... most of the people in this country work for such places! That's why I advocate for even lower corporate taxes and lower captial gains taxes. You want to create a populace that can pay higher income taxes and thus a sustainable payoff of the nation debt??? Then create jobs that will pay them back even more than they're being taxed! How can a small business survive when they can't afford to expand by hiring more people? Or buy another machine that would give them more capacity and more work and the ability to compete better with larger companies?

This isn't pie-in-the-sky, banana-rama, good times, rock'n'roll crap!! This is reality!
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You can only have it one way, America... individual freedom or big government. Which is it going to be?
Old 11-16-2012, 04:17 PM   #18
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EXACTLY!! You're actually helping me make my point! Small businesses are being attacked from two fronts... ugly competition from larger corporations and the tax system of the federal government. The economy of this country was originally concieved around the notion that anyone could start a business and even FAIL without consequence (in most cases). All that would be lost was you and your partner's investment and time. You could even pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try again! That's why we need to protect small to medium sized businesses... most of the people in this country work for such places! That's why I advocate for even lower corporate taxes and lower captial gains taxes. You want to create a populace that can pay higher income taxes and thus a sustainable payoff of the nation debt??? Then create jobs that will pay them back even more than they're being taxed! How can a small business survive when they can't afford to expand by hiring more people? Or buy another machine that would give them more capacity and more work and the ability to compete better with larger companies?

This isn't pie-in-the-sky, banana-rama, good times, rock'n'roll crap!! This is reality!
Monsolo....no one is saying that on paper you don't have a valid argument. At least I'm not. Here's where the skepticism comes in. People see companies only looking out for themselves and their shareholders. So, instead of investing in making a better business, they take that profit and roll it into the bottom line, not into paying employees more or doing anything that the average employee gives a damn about. Until THAT happens, there is always going to be a group of people that don't care what happens to corporate tax rates, etc., since one way or another, they don't see a benefit (as long as they keep their job).
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:28 PM   #19
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My point is that reducing corporate taxes and capital gains have no relationship to economic growth. That is the big lie that individual taxpayers are expected to believe, repeat, and defend at the ballot box.

I agree there are thousands more SMBs than there are multinationals. However, the latter are influencers of policy, law, and elections. When was the last time a small business paid $$$ to attend a fundraiser in hopes of getting 2 minutes with a elected official?

The US has a pay to play political system. This system uses economic theory as the enticement.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:48 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by MayZ View Post
My point is that reducing corporate taxes and capital gains have no relationship to economic growth. That is the big lie that individual taxpayers are expected to believe, repeat, and defend at the ballot box.

I agree there are thousands more SMBs than there are multinationals. However, the latter are influencers of policy, law, and elections. When was the last time a small business paid $$$ to attend a fundraiser in hopes of getting 2 minutes with a elected official?

The US has a pay to play political system. This system uses economic theory as the enticement.

What you've stated is pretty much what Nick (in my posted video) explains.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:53 PM   #21
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My point is that reducing corporate taxes and capital gains have no relationship to economic growth. That is the big lie that individual taxpayers are expected to believe, repeat, and defend at the ballot box.
The rates would matter if Corporate was doing what it should be doing, and that is creating, and keeping jobs here in the U.S., instead of worshipping the bottom line and sacrificing those jobs.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:10 PM   #22
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Come one, Roadster, you're smarter than that!

Print it out and read it while you're sitting on the pot!
That's usually what I have to do with Preacher's posts.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:19 PM   #23
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That's usually what I have to do with Preacher's posts.
If you print them on toilet paper, at least they'll be good for something.
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