C7 Tailights

[dreamcars99]

Originally Posted by Longtimer

No, it's Welburns', Peters', and Bennion's ivory tower-we-don't-care-what-you-think-get-used-to-it C7, it's not "ours." GM and their attitude can suck it as far as I'm concerned.

One of the lamest things I've read on the internet all year is that comment from that guy with all the inside info that went something like this

"the designers know the forums hate the taillights, they don't care. they say they can just deal with it, just like they dealt with the exposed c6 headlights"

[Longtimer]

Originally Posted by dreamcars99

One of the lamest things I've read on the internet all year is that comment from that guy with all the inside info that went something like this

"the designers know the forums hate the taillights, they don't care. they say they can just deal with it, just like they dealt with the exposed c6 headlights"

The Truth is often lame, but still the Truth.

[stinger430]

Originally Posted by Longtimer

The Truth is often lame, but still the Truth.

One thing is a DEFINITE Truth: this chapter is Corvette history is going to be a turning point. But not in the same way that the Sting Ray was a turning point. Or the Shark, or the C4 , or the.....(you get the idea).

[dreamcars99]

Originally Posted by Longtimer

The Truth is often lame, but still the Truth.

In my next life I should very much like to have a product that people love so much that I could be confident saying "screw them, they'll take what I offer", so to speak.

It seems like I have spent this life worrying very much, and every day, about making sure that customers like the products I can offer. And being grateful for those customers.

I find it ironic that I'm the target demographic for the Corvette designers, and I honestly think that a blacked out C6 Z06 is as good looking as any car extant. I never walked into my garage when it was there and didn't stare at it for a moment before going about my day. It wasn't broke. I digress...

[Longtimer]

Originally Posted by dreamcars99

It wasn't broke. I digress...

...and they sure as hell did NOT fix it.

[TheMelkMan]

Can we stop pretending that hearsay is the same thing as unimpeachable fact? Someone read a comment on a forum posted by a guy who knew a guy whose cousin knows a guy who went to highschool with a guy who changes the urinal cakes over at Bowling Green who overheard the CEO of GM say that the entire membership of DigitalCorvettes.com can go #@%! themselves. True story.

[Longtimer]

Originally Posted by TheMelkMan

Can we stop pretending that hearsay is the same thing as unimpeachable fact?

Actions speak louder than "hearsay." Regardless of that source, GM's actions affirm that message.

If you've read "All Corvettes Are Red" and other Corvette insider books, you know that all of the designs for new generations of vettes go through multiple marketing studies. The market groups who get a peek at the new designs and offer their opinions as the design is developed, have historically consisted largely of current corvette owners with other sports car owners mixed in.

Having read posts here and elsewhere around the net - including the car rag comments when a C7 rendering is posted - it is quite clear that the majority of those who own vettes don't like the camaro taillights / rear. It seems obvious that GM changed their feedback source from "Corvette fandom" to some other demographic that they hope will result in more sales. Do you believe that if the majority of all the marketing groups had been Corvette owners, the message they would have sent to GM would have been, "Yeah, we want Camaro taillights and that rear design?" Seriously?!? I don't.

No human likes to be abandoned, or told their opinion doesn't matter anymore. Certainly not those of us who have dedicated so much of our income, time, and even lives in some cases, to Corvette.

That the CEO of GM might have the attitude toward us you state, is but another indication and confirmation of their attitude in my opinion.

As implied by dreamcar99's earlier post, those who ignore their customers' opinions had better be damn good at replacing them. Maybe GM will be damn good, maybe they won't. They sure as hell need to replace me as a customer.

[TheMelkMan]

Originally Posted by Longtimer

Actions speak louder than "hearsay." Regardless of that source, GM's actions affirm that message.

What actions? Do you think they should scrap the C7 and redesign it from the ground up, just because Longtimer doesn't like the leaked images he's seen online? Is that how a car company should operate? Pick any car ever made, and you won't have to look far to find someone on the internet who thinks it's the most hideous thing they've ever seen.

[dobrenyr]

The tail lights are the least of the problem... when GM was designing the 3rd gen F-body... they selected that big curved glass which was complex to manufacture because the designers did NOT WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE A CHEAP HATCHBACK. Apparently this was not a concern with the C7 because it looks like a cheap hatchback. I could almost like with that stupid rear end but the problem is much greater than that.

[Longtimer]

Originally Posted by TheMelkMan

What actions? Do you think they should scrap the C7 and redesign it from the ground up, just because Longtimer doesn't like the leaked images he's seen online? Is that how a car company should operate?

Perhaps we could have a better exchange of ideas if you would actually read my posts.

GM's actions were: for the first time in Corvette design development, GM did not include, or weigh heavily enough the input from a majority of current corvette owners when executing their marketing design studies. They abandoned current corvette owners' opinions in favor of ??? ...rice burner clubs??? ...their design center's opinion??? ...I don't presume to know or care at this point. As you say, it is too late.

Clearly mine is not the only post that you have not read here or elsewhere. You seem to think that my opinion of the taillights and the rear design is unique and isolated. You would not think this if you read all the negative comments posted here and at a myriad of sites around the net, including the big car rag sites and others. This dislike of the rear is a concensus, not an individual opinion.

Yes, of course the design ship has sailed long, long ago. The time for GM to care about customer input was long, long, long ago. They have in the past, but they did not this time. We'll see how that plays.

You like it. Go buy one when it comes out, or two, and send them TheMelkMan's (and others who like it - there are those here too) message and opinion.

Others of us, and not just me (read the posts), will send the message: We know you ignored us, the design reflects that, and that is why you have lost us as C7 customers.

If they know this, they can figure out how they want to run their car company going forward ... 'til the next bail out anyway.

[TheMelkMan]

Originally Posted by Longtimer

Perhaps we could have a better exchange of ideas if you would actually read my posts.

The problem is that I did read your post, and you had nothing to offer but conjecture like this:

"GM's actions were: for the first time in Corvette design development, GM did not include, or weigh heavily enough the input from a majority of current corvette owners when executing their marketing design studies. They abandoned current corvette owners' opinions in favor of ??? ...rice burner clubs??? ...their design center's opinion??? ...I don't presume to know or care at this point. As you say, it is too late."

That has nothing to do with any actions taken by GM, that's just your own personal conjecture.

Originally Posted by Longtimer

Clearly mine is not the only post that you have not read here or elsewhere. You seem to think that my opinion of the taillights and the rear design is unique and isolated. You would not think this if you read all the negative comments posted here and at a myriad of sites around the net, including the big car rag sites and others.

No, yours isn't the only post I've seen bitching the about design... I've also seen maybe another dozen or so users (if that) bitching to varying degrees, but I'm not convinced they're representative of the car-buying public at large. They're a small group of very vocal users on a forum with a very insular user-base. I read C&D, R&T and MT on a regular basis (including their websites), and 90% of the comments on the C7 don't even make mention of the rear end.

Originally Posted by Longtimer

You like it. Go buy one when it comes out, or two, and send them TheMelkMan's (and others who like it - there are those here too) message and opinion.

I plan on it.

[Longtimer]

Originally Posted by TheMelkMan

That has nothing to do with any actions taken by GM, that's just your own personal conjecture.

Are you saying you believe that GM followed it's usual policies of including and heavily weighing the opinion of Corvette owners in their design development marketing studies? No they did not. They changed their policy. We were told by GM that they were changing their policy. Two different top management personnel stated they intended to aim the C7 at a new, younger market. My statements are a logical conclusion of the facts. You want to call conjecture, that's your near-sightedness.

No, yours isn't the only post I've seen bitching about design... I've also seen maybe another dozen or so (if that) users bitching to varying degrees, but I'm not convinced they're representative of the car-buying public at large.

The Corvette is a sports car that is not aimed at "the car-buying public at large." It is aimed at sports car buyers. Almost everyone here is a sports car driver, or wants to be. Every current owner of a corvette is a sports car buyer.

They're a small group of very vocal users on a forum with a very insular user-base. I read C&D, R&T and MT on a regular basis (including their websites), and 90% of the comments on the C7 don't even make mention of the rear end.

I subscribe to those mags and also read the comment sections on the net at least every time a rendering or a spy pic is posted. I also read other sites like Corvette blogger, AutoWeek, Jalopnik and several others. It is impossible for you not have seen the many negative comments about the rear end if you have been truely following these sites.

This is a forum. You have every right to post your opinions and you should. However, your categorization and trivialization of the many opinions that differ from yours as "insular" is not even conjecture, it is contrived as a rationale to support your own minority opinion.

Enjoy your C7. Much, about the car will be great. But not the exterior design.

Each time a new generation of corvette comes out, I see one on the road and envy the driver. I never buy a first year new model and usually I can't wait until I get one. For the first time in my lifetime, that will not be the case when I see the new generation on the road. No driver envy, no lust for the C7. No thanks.

[TheMelkMan]

Originally Posted by Longtimer

Enjoy your C7. Much, about the car will be great. But not the exterior design.

The exterior design is one of the best parts.

[Longtimer]

Originally Posted by TheMelkMan

The exterior design is one of the best parts.

Your name wouldn't be Bennion would it?

[TheMelkMan]

Originally Posted by Longtimer

Your name wouldn't be Bennion would it?