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Old 12-03-2012, 06:27 AM   #16
87vette81big
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Plenty of good professions out there that don't require a degree, yet have a higher salary/hourly than most jobs that require a degree.
Like what ?


A Janitor ?
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:36 AM   #17
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You guys are rationalizing this? $16T deficit and growing and the ruling class wants to spend more.

Might as well make it a right to go to college and let ALL of us go for free can't cost no more than a few $Trillion more amungst friends
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:51 AM   #18
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Like what ?


A Janitor ?

Here's a list of 40:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-40-highest-paying-jobs-you-can-get-without-a-bachelors-degree-2012-8?op=1

I think there may be a few in there that require AA degrees.

IT is a field that doesn't require a degree, unless you want to be in managment.

Trucking - There are several hundred thousand driving jobs avail.

People have to start thinking outside the box. Tech schools are much, much cheaper and lead to great careers too. There are some courses such as automotive and culinary education. People will always have cars and need to eat.

There is so much money out there to be made, but people just can't see outside the box society has put them in.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:57 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by walleyfisher View Post
You guys are rationalizing this? $16T deficit and growing and the ruling class wants to spend more.

Might as well make it a right to go to college and let ALL of us go for free can't cost no more than a few $Trillion more amungst friends
It's not just college. If you are home in the daytime and have the TV turned on, you will see dozens of ads for tech schools -- medical assistants, dental assistants, diesel mechanics, electronics technicians, and on and on and on. These ads are seining for young people so they will sign up for financial aid and give the school a windfall of thousands of dollars from a studen loan. Just like in college, many of these students never finish their program, but the school keeps all of the money and the student is saddled with the debt for his entire life. The government makes these loans because a citizenry trained with special skills is valuable for everyone. There is risk, but in the big picture, I think it's worth it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:05 AM   #20
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It's not just college. If you are home in the daytime and have the TV turned on, you will see dozens of ads for tech schools -- medical assistants, dental assistants, diesel mechanics, electronics technicians, and on and on and on. These ads are seining for young people so they will sign up for financial aid and give the school a windfall of thousands of dollars from a studen loan. Just like in college, many of these students never finish their program, but the school keeps all of the money and the student is saddled with the debt for his entire life. The government makes these loans because a citizenry trained with special skills is valuable for everyone. There is risk, but in the big picture, I think it's worth it.
... and I would also add that the changes that have been occuring with regards to job losses and unemployment are going to be permanent at some level. Things have changed, which means people's thinking and perceptions must change. Those that adapt the fastest will get out of their comfort zone and pick up jobs that weren't necessarily in their field or study. Those that sit cross-eyed in front of the tube on puter and complain will be left out.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:42 AM   #21
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It's not just college. If you are home in the daytime and have the TV turned on, you will see dozens of ads for tech schools -- medical assistants, dental assistants, diesel mechanics, electronics technicians, and on and on and on. These ads are seining for young people so they will sign up for financial aid and give the school a windfall of thousands of dollars from a studen loan. Just like in college, many of these students never finish their program, but the school keeps all of the money and the student is saddled with the debt for his entire life. The government makes these loans because a citizenry trained with special skills is valuable for everyone. There is risk, but in the big picture, I think it's worth it.
I have seen those commercials. If you notice the fine print "Most of the credits will not transfer".
The first thing I would do is make those fuckers like ITT and such be credited. If you are going to offer training that cost X amount and take government money, then that training should be able to transferable to a college.
Second only pay the school if the person finishes. This IMO would be a catch 22 for those type of training places like ITT and such. They would have to earn the license to be credited and be constantly evaluated to hold that license to received the government money.
Since the government has given the loan then the government should help with placement for those that have graduated. For those that cant find jobs then no interest should be applied to the loan until the job is found or if the person starts making x amount of dollars per month.

I know, more flawed ideas, but at least it is a start.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:03 PM   #22
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I just paid off my student loans (11/12) after 17 years of paying each and every month. My Dad never had the money to pay for any of it, but taught me how important education is. It is one of the only things that can never be taken away from you, no matter what. I worked full-time minimum wage jobs and graduated in 4.5 years.

I graduated with my BSBA in 1995 and had a $7 per hour job on the day I graduated. I moved to a strange city (Detroit) in 1996 for $20K per year. That's right, less than $10 per hour, but it was far less than that since this salary job required 60 hour work weeks. I continued to better myself with more responsibility, smart career moves, and using my brain and balls together.

I am no Rockefeller, but I am the president of a $30 Million company and turn 40 in three months. A college degree is nothing more than a tool. The student must do their part to find and make their own success.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:24 PM   #23
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I have seen those commercials. If you notice the fine print "Most of the credits will not transfer".
The first thing I would do is make those fuckers like ITT and such be credited. If you are going to offer training that cost X amount and take government money, then that training should be able to transferable to a college.
Second only pay the school if the person finishes. This IMO would be a catch 22 for those type of training places like ITT and such. They would have to earn the license to be credited and be constantly evaluated to hold that license to received the government money.
Since the government has given the loan then the government should help with placement for those that have graduated. For those that cant find jobs then no interest should be applied to the loan until the job is found or if the person starts making x amount of dollars per month.

I know, more flawed ideas, but at least it is a start.

These type of schools are really designed to get you in the market for jobs that don't require a degree. I've been working in Telecomm for over 15 years now, and I've met many guys who've graduated from schools like ITT. They are merely tech schools. Unless you want to be a manager, you don't need a degree in the Telecomm/IT world.

I received my training free in the Navy. I tell everyone, especially the younger folks that you don't need a degree to succeed. This type of thinking, like many things in this country is built on an old 40's model of thinking. With just 4 years in the service, you could have 4 years of training, room & board for free, savings & investments (if you didn't waste it all boozing and chasing tail), all of your needed Certifications and then some, + a Govt. Clearance... paid for by "Sammy".

In the Telecomm/IT world, Certifications are your way to making good money. If you have the right Certs and a govt. Security Clearance (which is often required for some positions), 60k - 100k a year jobs are a dime a dozen. The good paying jobs though, are tied to certain regions of the country... Texas, VA, MD and DC. If you're good at it, it's an excellent field to start your own business in as well.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:36 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BJC99Hardtop View Post
I just paid off my student loans (11/12) after 17 years of paying each and every month. My Dad never had the money to pay for any of it, but taught me how important education is. It is one of the only things that can never be taken away from you, no matter what. I worked full-time minimum wage jobs and graduated in 4.5 years.

I graduated with my BSBA in 1995 and had a $7 per hour job on the day I graduated. I moved to a strange city (Detroit) in 1996 for $20K per year. That's right, less than $10 per hour, but it was far less than that since this salary job required 60 hour work weeks. I continued to better myself with more responsibility, smart career moves, and using my brain and balls together.

I am no Rockefeller, but I am the president of a $30 Million company and turn 40 in three months. A college degree is nothing more than a tool. The student must do their part to find and make their own success.
Congrats on your success!!! Often people don't have the "vision" to see past next week, which is why so many get stuck in the mud and depressed at their current situations. I've been been dirt broke many times, homeless many times, at times didn't eat for 3 or 4 days...which happened more than i'd liked , but through it all, I kept a positive attitude and I always knew that the bad times would pass. Kept working hard and took whatever jobs I could...most were 5.00 hr. From 2003-2007 I averaged 61k a year, from 2007-present, I averaged 125k a year. I went to Community College for one Semester after H.S. then dropped out, haven't even thought about going back. Never lived with my parents and was on my own at 15. Overcame a myriad of other problems when I was down and out, but for obvious reasons, I won't get into that here. No family to turn to when times were tough.

I, like everyone else in this country have my issues with many of the problems that this country has, but having been to over 20 different countries, there is no country in the world that compares to the U.S. when it comes to opportunity...regardless of race, sex, family background, sex orientation or religious beliefs. Success CAN be had with perseverence, persistence, planning and positive thinking.

I will take a hit over the next few years as I embark on a career change to start my own business. I'm hoping to catch up with you someday BJC99Hardtop!

Again, CONGRATS on your success!!
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by c6vettedude View Post
Here's a list of 40:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-40-highest-paying-jobs-you-can-get-without-a-bachelors-degree-2012-8?op=1

I think there may be a few in there that require AA degrees.

IT is a field that doesn't require a degree, unless you want to be in managment.

Trucking - There are several hundred thousand driving jobs avail.

People have to start thinking outside the box. Tech schools are much, much cheaper and lead to great careers too. There are some courses such as automotive and culinary education. People will always have cars and need to eat.

There is so much money out there to be made, but people just can't see outside the box society has put them in.
Ok.

You made your point.

I am an Auto & Diesel Mechanic.
ASE Certified Master Mechanic & Advanced driveabilty specialist.
My prior career I was an an Electronic Technician way back when in the late 1980's to mid 1990's.
I have a AAS in Electronics Technology 1987.
It got real boring electronic repair & did not pay squat.
Chose to become a Auto mechanic &its what I did at night since like 1982 anyhow fixing cars & trucks since 13.

College tuition for me in 1987 was $28.00 per credit hour.
The same junior college I went to back then has raised their credit hour rates to over $100 per hour.
My pop's paid for the 1st year, I paid for the 2nd year, 3rd year after I earning my AAS in Electronics, I took automechanics at the same college too, I paid for.
Fuck.....it was easily affordable.
I was making $4.25 per hour.
Still had spending cash left over weekly.

The wife has all of her IT certifications & now is a network administration.
She has student loans to pay back.
Was it worth it for her ? Likely Yes.
But without my earnings weekly, life would difficult for her if alone yet & I was gone dead.

It is a motherficker today as a mechanic.
Everyone is broke that shows up.
Even millionares are really bankrupt broke, owe the banks somehow.
How do I know this?
Its wintertime, I just bought new tires for my 1994 GMC K1500 4X4 Suburban & the wife's 1999 Honda CRV.
I bought good tires that costed $,
not crap wally world tires.
So I have been taking notice of all vehicles coming in recent,
bald tires, missing peeled off tire tread, steel cords showing..........notify customer.............Its Ok I know, have no $$$ to buy new..........
Look at the bosses 2001 Ford Ranger.........Jack. Fuckin tires are shot........Want me to call & get new tires coming for You ?/????................Fick No Brian.......costs $$$$
& he is worth at least 5 million bucks in my estimation.....Farmer too....

Brian R.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:15 PM   #26
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Ok.

You made your point.

I am an Auto & Diesel Mechanic.
ASE Certified Master Mechanic & Advanced driveabilty specialist.
My prior career I was an an Electronic Technician way back when in the late 1980's to mid 1990's.
I have a AAS in Electronics Technology 1987.
It got real boring electronic repair & did not pay squat.
Chose to become a Auto mechanic &its what I did at night since like 1982 anyhow fixing cars & trucks since 13.

College tuition for me in 1987 was $28.00 per credit hour.
The same junior college I went to back then has raised their credit hour rates to over $100 per hour.
My pop's paid for the 1st year, I paid for the 2nd year, 3rd year after I earning my AAS in Electronics, I took automechanics at the same college too, I paid for.
Fuck.....it was easily affordable.
I was making $4.25 per hour.
Still had spending cash left over weekly.

The wife has all of her IT certifications & now is a network administration.
She has student loans to pay back.
Was it worth it for her ? Likely Yes.
But without my earnings weekly, life would difficult for her if alone yet & I was gone dead.

It is a motherficker today as a mechanic.
Everyone is broke that shows up.
Even millionares are really bankrupt broke, owe the banks somehow.
How do I know this?
Its wintertime, I just bought new tires for my 1994 GMC K1500 4X4 Suburban & the wife's 1999 Honda CRV.
I bought good tires that costed $,
not crap wally world tires.
So I have been taking notice of all vehicles coming in recent,
bald tires, missing peeled off tire tread, steel cords showing..........notify customer.............Its Ok I know, have no $$$ to buy new..........
Look at the bosses 2001 Ford Ranger.........Jack. Fuckin tires are shot........Want me to call & get new tires coming for You ?/????................Fick No Brian.......costs $$$$
& he is worth at least 5 million bucks in my estimation.....Farmer too....

Brian R.
I know what you mean, my brother is a mechanic and started his own mobile mechanic business. It's always tough in the winter, and yes, many people will hold out on buying things such as brakes, tires etc., until it becomes absolutely necessary.

Have you guys considered working overseas?? Mechanics and Network administrators are always in demand.

PM sent
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 87vette81big View Post
Like what ?


A Janitor ?
PM Sent
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:58 PM   #28
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PM Sent
PM sent.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by XQIZT View Post
Bailout or no...there are serious problems with the student loan/college/job arena.

A) Everyone...E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E... is sold a bill of goods in high school that they NEED to go to college. Thats a problem because not everyone in high school can afford it or wants to...so they spend 7 years and $40,000 getting an underwater basket weaving degree and exit college with a $7/hr job upsizing fries.

B) Even some of the people who successfully go through college are having a hard time finding work in the real job arena that offers enough pay to pay off loans and support a reasonable post college lifestyle.

C) Some employers have a lot of balls REQUIRING a degree for some BS job that a well trained chimp could do...which results in A) above.

D) Some people are just idiots and go to college anyway, full well knowing they are flushing away cash that they will never recoup.

So, there is plenty of blame to go around.


This is VERY true.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:42 PM   #30
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... Have you guys considered working overseas?? Mechanics and Network administrators are always in demand.
Do you get to pack heat?

It really depends on WHERE overseas. Where are you talking about?
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