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Old 12-05-2012, 09:03 AM   #16
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So what is the middle??? The polls reflect what the people percieve. Obama ran and won on the issue of higher taxes for the top 2%. That is what the people want. So give it to them. If the economy tanks again, the blame goes to Obama, if we hold up the tax increases for the rich and they go up for eveybody, the people will blame the pubs. If we do not do anything and the economy faulters at all the Pubs get the blame. Sometimes you have to let the other side hang themselves so you can prove your point, only then can you come back and say, we gave that a shot and it failed now lets do it our way.
You are probably right. But doing it that way is just allowing the masses to continue to live with the delusion that things will never have to change. They think there is a magical money pot hidden under the houses of the rich that will pay for everyone's medical care, retirement, etc. That pot of money is too small for those needs, and the masses refuse to acknowledge that, because doing so would logically mean that our expectations need to lower or we all need to plan on paying higher taxes. I'm to the point where, regardless of the political fallout, we need to let the country sink or swim. If the public thinks we can swim by taxing the top 2%, they better get their scuba gear on.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:40 PM   #17
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OBAMA: There Won't Be A Debt Ceiling Negotiation This Time

I think the Machine is working for the Obama Administration


http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...-cliff-2012-12

In "off-the-cuff" remarks at the Business Roundtable in Washington, D.C, today, President Barack Obama was firm in a stance that he would not be "playing that game" of negotiating the raising of the debt ceiling. He said a rise in the debt ceiling would have to be a part of a deal to avert the so-called "fiscal cliff."
Obama quoted John Engler, the president of the Business Roundtable, who charged in November that it's "not a good weapon for anything except destroying our own credit rating."
"That is a bad strategy for America, it's a bad strategy for your businesses and it is not a game I will play," Obama said. "We are not going to play that game again next year. We've got to break that habit before it starts."
This morning, the U.S. Treasury outlined the so-called "McConnell Provision," which would change the debt ceiling not into something that has to be raised, but something that has to be voted against. Under the proposal, the debt ceiling would automatically rise unless Congress voted against it.
In his remarks, Obama also maintained that it's "not possible" to raise enough revenue for a fiscal-cliff deal by simply eliminating loopholes and deductions in the tax code which is the plan House Speaker John Boehner offered on Monday.
He immediately amended that remark, saying it was "possible," but not "practical."
"The notion that some how we're just going to eliminate charitable deductions is just unlikely," Obama said in his reasoning.
Obama repeated that for a deal to be reached with Congressional Republicans, marginal tax rates must rise on incomes above $250,000. He said that House Speaker John Boehner is holding that up from happening.
"We can probably solve this in about a week," Obama said. "It's not that tough."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...#ixzz2EDD4qnMU
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Upheval View Post
I think the Machine is working for the Obama Administration


http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...-cliff-2012-12

In "off-the-cuff" remarks at the Business Roundtable in Washington, D.C, today, President Barack Obama was firm in a stance that he would not be "playing that game" of negotiating the raising of the debt ceiling. He said a rise in the debt ceiling would have to be a part of a deal to avert the so-called "fiscal cliff."
Obama quoted John Engler, the president of the Business Roundtable, who charged in November that it's "not a good weapon for anything except destroying our own credit rating."
"That is a bad strategy for America, it's a bad strategy for your businesses and it is not a game I will play," Obama said. "We are not going to play that game again next year. We've got to break that habit before it starts."
This morning, the U.S. Treasury outlined the so-called "McConnell Provision," which would change the debt ceiling not into something that has to be raised, but something that has to be voted against. Under the proposal, the debt ceiling would automatically rise unless Congress voted against it.
In his remarks, Obama also maintained that it's "not possible" to raise enough revenue for a fiscal-cliff deal by simply eliminating loopholes and deductions in the tax code which is the plan House Speaker John Boehner offered on Monday.
He immediately amended that remark, saying it was "possible," but not "practical."
"The notion that some how we're just going to eliminate charitable deductions is just unlikely," Obama said in his reasoning.
Obama repeated that for a deal to be reached with Congressional Republicans, marginal tax rates must rise on incomes above $250,000. He said that House Speaker John Boehner is holding that up from happening.
"We can probably solve this in about a week," Obama said. "It's not that tough."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...#ixzz2EDD4qnMU
We're living in backward times.
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I'm taking care of my procrastination issues, just you wait and see.
Old 12-05-2012, 04:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upheval View Post
I think the Machine is working for the Obama Administration


http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...-cliff-2012-12

In "off-the-cuff" remarks at the Business Roundtable in Washington, D.C, today, President Barack Obama was firm in a stance that he would not be "playing that game" of negotiating the raising of the debt ceiling. He said a rise in the debt ceiling would have to be a part of a deal to avert the so-called "fiscal cliff."
Obama quoted John Engler, the president of the Business Roundtable, who charged in November that it's "not a good weapon for anything except destroying our own credit rating."
"That is a bad strategy for America, it's a bad strategy for your businesses and it is not a game I will play," Obama said. "We are not going to play that game again next year. We've got to break that habit before it starts."
This morning, the U.S. Treasury outlined the so-called "McConnell Provision," which would change the debt ceiling not into something that has to be raised, but something that has to be voted against. Under the proposal, the debt ceiling would automatically rise unless Congress voted against it.
In his remarks, Obama also maintained that it's "not possible" to raise enough revenue for a fiscal-cliff deal by simply eliminating loopholes and deductions in the tax code which is the plan House Speaker John Boehner offered on Monday.
He immediately amended that remark, saying it was "possible," but not "practical."
"The notion that some how we're just going to eliminate charitable deductions is just unlikely," Obama said in his reasoning.
Obama repeated that for a deal to be reached with Congressional Republicans, marginal tax rates must rise on incomes above $250,000. He said that House Speaker John Boehner is holding that up from happening.
"We can probably solve this in about a week," Obama said. "It's not that tough."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...#ixzz2EDD4qnMU
Why are we negociating to cut spending if all we have to do is not increase the debt limit???? Because the debt limit is not the mechanism for reducing spending. The debt limit is simply the mechanism that allows us to pay our bills....the bills that congress already approved the spending on.

Not raising the debt limit is like telling your wife to take the car in for a repair, and when it's time to pick it up you say no way I am not paying for that.
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Welcome to the Machine...... (I'm still a clown) this from Ponch (second time) who is supposed to be a moderator on this site....but of course if you disagree with him this is the sort of thing he does. It is simply amazing that anyone would give a guy who is so obviously childish and spiteful a position of authority.
Old 12-05-2012, 04:44 PM   #20
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Why are we negociating to cut spending if all we have to do is not increase the debt limit???? Because the debt limit is not the mechanism for reducing spending. The debt limit is simply the mechanism that allows us to pay our bills....the bills that congress already approved the spending on.

Not raising the debt limit is like telling your wife to take the car in for a repair, and when it's time to pick it up you say no way I am not paying for that.
Yet considering the cost of that auto repair and what you can afford, might be an important step prior to authorizing the job. Same as running a country within your authorization...Maybe if the POTUS does not have the authority to pay the bills, he should be a bit more involved with what's approved?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:53 PM   #21
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Not raising the debt limit is like telling your wife to take the car in for a repair, and when it's time to pick it up you say no way I am not paying for that.
But if your wife also ran up $100,000 in credit card bills before she had the car trouble, you might tell her you were tearing up the credit cards (freezing the debt limit) until she got her current debt paid down.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:54 PM   #22
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Yet considering the cost of that auto repair and what you can afford, might be an important step prior to authorizing the job. Same as running a country within your authorization...Maybe if the POTUS does not have the authority to pay the bills, he should be a bit more involved with what's approved?
What ever is going to happen they need to hurry and figure it out because the Obama's go to Hawaii on the 17th till the 6th of next year.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:13 PM   #23
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But if your wife also ran up $100,000 in credit card bills before she had the car trouble, you might tell her you were tearing up the credit cards (freezing the debt limit) until she got her current debt paid down.
By all means explain to me the legal mechanism that the president has to stop spending that has been authorized by congress. If Obama could choose to not spend money as he saw fit, why would he have to negociate to reduce military spending. Hell he could just say sorry pentagon no money for you. If he did that you guys would be screaming bloody murder and rightly so, because he would have far exceeded his authority.

You guys have no understanding of the rules that the president works under.
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Welcome to the Machine...... (I'm still a clown) this from Ponch (second time) who is supposed to be a moderator on this site....but of course if you disagree with him this is the sort of thing he does. It is simply amazing that anyone would give a guy who is so obviously childish and spiteful a position of authority.
Old 12-05-2012, 05:18 PM   #24
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By all means explain to me the legal mechanism that the president has to stop spending that has been authorized by congress. If Obama could choose to not spend money as he saw fit, why would he have to negociate to reduce military spending. Hell he could just say sorry pentagon no money for you. If he did that you guys would be screaming bloody murder and rightly so, because he would have far exceeded his authority.

You guys have no understanding of the rules that the president works under.
Well, the president doesn't spend money -- congress does. The president can only ask for money to be spent. He is not the king.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:22 PM   #25
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Well, the president doesn't spend money -- congress does. The president can only ask for money to be spent. He is not the king.
Thank you....so now why is congress going to hold up payments for spending that they have already authorized???
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Welcome to the Machine...... (I'm still a clown) this from Ponch (second time) who is supposed to be a moderator on this site....but of course if you disagree with him this is the sort of thing he does. It is simply amazing that anyone would give a guy who is so obviously childish and spiteful a position of authority.
Old 12-05-2012, 05:25 PM   #26
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Thank you....so now why is congress going to hold up payments for spending that they have already authorized???
Job security.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:28 PM   #27
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Job security.
Uhhmmm that would be exactly the opposite. If congress fails to raise the debt limit and the US defaults on it's obligations....I doubt that they would ever be elected to another post again.
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Welcome to the Machine...... (I'm still a clown) this from Ponch (second time) who is supposed to be a moderator on this site....but of course if you disagree with him this is the sort of thing he does. It is simply amazing that anyone would give a guy who is so obviously childish and spiteful a position of authority.
Old 12-05-2012, 05:33 PM   #28
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Uhhmmm that would be exactly the opposite. If congress fails to raise the debt limit and the US defaults on it's obligations....I doubt that they would ever be elected to another post again.
I was talking more to the point of needing to approve the same spending twice. Duplicate work.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:44 AM   #29
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I was talking more to the point of needing to approve the same spending twice. Duplicate work.
I see your point....but they are playing a dangerous game. Last time it cost us a ding to our credit rating.
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Welcome to the Machine...... (I'm still a clown) this from Ponch (second time) who is supposed to be a moderator on this site....but of course if you disagree with him this is the sort of thing he does. It is simply amazing that anyone would give a guy who is so obviously childish and spiteful a position of authority.
Old 12-06-2012, 09:06 AM   #30
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Thank you....so now why is congress going to hold up payments for spending that they have already authorized???
Maybe you should ask this very question to Mr. Obama, he voted against it when he was in the Senate

I say if there is no serious cuts, let the sonofabitch go over the cliff, its headed there anyways
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