When are we going to have a discussion about the real problems/causes of gun crime? - Page 2 - Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums
 
 
Go Back   Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums > Other Discussions/Topics > News Room
Register Forums Garage Garage Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowInsurance

Notices

News Room This section is for discussing current events.

Shops/Tuners
Custom Image Corvettes
A&A Corvette
Corvette tuner

Interior
Corvette aftermarket products

Insurance

Parts & Products
Race Ramps
Edelbrock
ATI/Procharger
Corvetteguys.com
Melrose Motorsports
Parts Taxi
Airaid
Mid America Motorworks
Pfadt Racing
Madvette Motorsports
Hi-tech Custom Concepts
Corvette aftermarket products
Corvette Garage
Corvette Parts and Accessories
Corvette Car Care Products
Corvette HID
Mid America Motoroworks

Tracks/Schools
Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving
Corvette driving school

Wheels/Tires
Cray Wheels

Services
BADWERKS.com
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-19-2012, 09:20 PM   #16
MayZ
DC Crew
 
Posts: 391
Member #73924
Member since: Jul 2008
Location: The Range

My Corvette(s)
2008 Z06

Thanks: 3
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by blckslvr79 View Post
Opinion.
Yea, it's just an opinion. Living in several states, entitles me to at least one.
MayZ is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
MAYZ

2008 Z06 Black/Ebony
2LZ, Comp Grey Wheels
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-19-2012, 09:27 PM   #17
MayZ
DC Crew
 
Posts: 391
Member #73924
Member since: Jul 2008
Location: The Range

My Corvette(s)
2008 Z06

Thanks: 3
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Just curious . . . has anyone here ever discharged their gun against another civilian?
MayZ is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
MAYZ

2008 Z06 Black/Ebony
2LZ, Comp Grey Wheels
Old 12-19-2012, 09:30 PM   #18
ArKay99
 
ArKay99's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,334
Member #43955
Member since: Mar 2006
Location: Indian Rocks Beach, FL, USA

My Corvette(s)
1999 FRC - 2009 Z06

Thanks: 233
Thanked 373 Times in 244 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayZ View Post
Just curious . . . has anyone here ever discharged their gun against another civilian?
Not yet.
ArKay99 is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business, frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise. They are the residue of centralized bureaucracy, of government by a self-anointed elite. - Ronald Reagan
Old 12-19-2012, 09:59 PM   #19
Enginerd
DC Crew
 
Enginerd's Avatar
 
Posts: 300
Member #118105
Member since: Dec 2011
Location: Virginia

My Corvette(s)
72 coupe

Thanks: 10
Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayZ View Post
Just curious . . . has anyone here ever discharged their gun against another civilian?
Most defensive uses don't even need a shot fired. The mere presence of, or drawing of, a gun is enough to scare off or subdue most most criminals.
Enginerd is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2012, 10:29 PM   #20
iburke
Sir Dude
 
iburke's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,401
Member #6081
Member since: Dec 2003
Location: St Joseph MO.

My Corvette(s)
1971 T-Top

Thanks: 38
Thanked 57 Times in 44 Posts
My demeanor also never changes, regardless of whether I am carrying or not.

But what does that have to do with the problem at hand. I would say if you inspect the lives of any one who committed a crime like we just had, you will most likely find abuse at home and or bullying in the earlier years of that person's life.

I know we have several bullies on this forum and only God knows how many I have met in life. If you are one of these people you may be partly responsible for one of these horrible crimes.

Think about this before you come down on your next victim and start your abuse.
iburke is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
I can't tell if I'm dealing well with life these days or I just don't give a shit any more.
Old 12-20-2012, 06:19 AM   #21
blckslvr79
 
blckslvr79's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,069
Member #67576
Member since: Nov 2007
Location: Schererville, IN

My Corvette(s)
1979 L82 4speed

Thanks: 828
Thanked 281 Times in 233 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayZ View Post
Yea, it's just an opinion. Living in several states, entitles me to at least one.
Opinion/Emotion......no factual statement to back up your idea.
Thanks for playing.
blckslvr79 is online now   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
I'm taking care of my procrastination issues, just you wait and see.
Old 12-20-2012, 06:22 AM   #22
blckslvr79
 
blckslvr79's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,069
Member #67576
Member since: Nov 2007
Location: Schererville, IN

My Corvette(s)
1979 L82 4speed

Thanks: 828
Thanked 281 Times in 233 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayZ View Post
I've experienced some behavior, where folks get emboldened when carrying. Instead of diffusing a potential incident, they were more willing to confront and challenge.

Of course this isn't everyone who carries, but it does occur.
If you say so, it must be true. I've seen just as many situations where carrying eliminated a risk. What's your point then?
blckslvr79 is online now   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
I'm taking care of my procrastination issues, just you wait and see.
Old 12-20-2012, 06:31 AM   #23
blckslvr79
 
blckslvr79's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,069
Member #67576
Member since: Nov 2007
Location: Schererville, IN

My Corvette(s)
1979 L82 4speed

Thanks: 828
Thanked 281 Times in 233 Posts
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ngs-john-fund#



A few things you won’t hear about from the saturation coverage of the Newtown, Conn., school massacre:

Mass shootings are no more common than they have been in past decades, despite the impression given by the media.

In fact, the high point for mass killings in the U.S. was 1929, according to criminologist Grant Duwe of the Minnesota Department of Corrections.

Incidents of mass murder in the U.S. declined from 42 in the 1990s to 26 in the first decade of this century.

The chances of being killed in a mass shooting are about what they are for being struck by lightning.

Until the Newtown horror, the three worst K–12 school shootings ever had taken place in either Britain or Germany.

Almost all of the public-policy discussion about Newtown has focused on a debate over the need for more gun control. In reality, gun control in a country that already has 200 million privately owned firearms is likely to do little to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals. We would be better off debating two taboo subjects — the laws that make it difficult to control people with mental illness and the growing body of evidence that “gun-free” zones, which ban the carrying of firearms by law-abiding individuals, don’t work.

First, the mental-health issue. A lengthy study by Mother Jones magazine found that at least 38 of the 61 mass shooters in the past three decades “displayed signs of mental health problems prior to the killings.” New York Times columnist David Brooks and Cornell Law School professor William Jacobson have both suggested that the ACLU-inspired laws that make it so difficult to intervene and identify potentially dangerous people should be loosened. “Will we address mental-health and educational-privacy laws, which instill fear of legal liability for reporting potentially violent mentally ill people to law enforcement?” asks Professor Jacobson. “I doubt it.”

Gun-free zones have been the most popular response to previous mass killings. But many law-enforcement officials say they are actually counterproductive. “Guns are already banned in schools. That is why the shootings happen in schools. A school is a ‘helpless-victim zone,’” says Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff. “Preventing any adult at a school from having access to a firearm eliminates any chance the killer can be stopped in time to prevent a rampage,” Jim Kouri, the public-information officer of the National Association of Chiefs of Police, told me earlier this year at the time of the Aurora, Colo., Batman-movie shooting. Indeed, there have been many instances — from the high-school shooting by Luke Woodham in Mississippi, to the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, Colo. — where a killer has been stopped after someone got a gun from a parked car or elsewhere and confronted the shooter.

Economists John Lott and William Landes conducted a groundbreaking study in 1999, and found that a common theme of mass shootings is that they occur in places where guns are banned and killers know everyone will be unarmed, such as shopping malls and schools.
I spoke with Lott after the Newtown shooting, and he confirmed that nothing has changed to alter his findings. He noted that the Aurora shooter, who killed twelve people earlier this year, had a choice of seven movie theaters that were showing the Batman movie he was obsessed with. All were within a 20-minute drive of his home. The Cinemark Theater the killer ultimately chose wasn’t the closest, but it was the only one that posted signs saying it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals. All of the other theaters allowed the approximately 4 percent of Colorado adults who have a concealed-handgun permit to enter with their weapons.

“Disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks,” Lott told me. “A couple hundred people were in the Cinemark Theater when the killer arrived. There is an extremely high probability that one or more of them would have had a legal concealed handgun with him if they had not been banned.”

Lott offers a final damning statistic: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

There is no evidence that private holders of concealed-carry permits (which are either easy to obtain or not even required in more than 40 states) are any more irresponsible with firearms than the police. According to a 2005 to 2007 study by researchers at the University of Wisconsin and Bowling Green State University, police nationwide were convicted of firearms violations at least at a 0.002 percent annual rate. That’s about the same rate as holders of carry permits in the states with “shall issue” laws.

Despite all of this evidence, the magical thinking behind gun-free zones is unlikely to be questioned in the wake of the Newtown killings. Having such zones gives people a false sense of security, and woe to the politician or business owner who now suggests that a “gun-free zone” revert back to what critics would characterize as “a wild, wild West” status. Indeed, shortly after the Cinemark attack in Colorado, the manager of the nearby Northfield Theaters changed its policy and began banning concealed handguns.

In all of the fevered commentary over the Newtown killings, you will hear little discussion of the fact that we may be making our families and neighbors less safe by expanding the places where guns aren’t allowed. But that is precisely what we may be doing. Both criminals and the criminally insane have shown time and time again that those laws are the least of the problems they face as they carry out their evil deeds.
— John Fund is a national-affairs columnist for NRO.
blckslvr79 is online now   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
I'm taking care of my procrastination issues, just you wait and see.
The Following User Says Thank You to blckslvr79 For This Useful Post:
iburke (12-20-2012)
Old 12-20-2012, 06:48 AM   #24
Texdentist
 
Texdentist's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,958
Member #76657
Member since: Oct 2008
Location: Crowley, TX

My Corvette(s)
2013 Coupe, 2009 Coupe - traded, '74 Coupe totalled, '77 Coupe sold

Thanks: 59
Thanked 567 Times in 415 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by blckslvr79 View Post
First, the mental-health issue. A lengthy study by Mother Jones magazine found that at least 38 of the 61 mass shooters in the past three decades “displayed signs of mental health problems prior to the killings.” New York Times columnist David Brooks and Cornell Law School professor William Jacobson have both suggested that the ACLU-inspired laws that make it so difficult to intervene and identify potentially dangerous people should be loosened. “Will we address mental-health and educational-privacy laws, which instill fear of legal liability for reporting potentially violent mentally ill people to law enforcement?” asks Professor Jacobson. “I doubt it.”
This is the crux of the biscuit. And unfortunately, there just isn't an easy answer for it. On one hand, most of us have known someone who tried to report a potentially dangerous spouse/lover/neighbor to the police, only to hear "We can't do anything until he breaks a law". On the other hand, do we really want people to be easily locked up when someone makes an accusation that they are dangerous? Think that might get misused at times? Guns are not the reason we can't solve our mass shooting problem. Our inability to deal with potentially dangerous people is our problem, and I don't know how we could change our laws to improve the situation without becoming Russia or China where people get locked up because someone in power just decides they need to be off the streets.
Texdentist is online now   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2012, 06:59 AM   #25
blckslvr79
 
blckslvr79's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,069
Member #67576
Member since: Nov 2007
Location: Schererville, IN

My Corvette(s)
1979 L82 4speed

Thanks: 828
Thanked 281 Times in 233 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
This is the crux of the biscuit. And unfortunately, there just isn't an easy answer for it. On one hand, most of us have known someone who tried to report a potentially dangerous spouse/lover/neighbor to the police, only to hear "We can't do anything until he breaks a law". On the other hand, do we really want people to be easily locked up when someone makes an accusation that they are dangerous? Think that might get misused at times? Guns are not the reason we can't solve our mass shooting problem. Our inability to deal with potentially dangerous people is our problem, and I don't know how we could change our laws to improve the situation without becoming Russia or China where people get locked up because someone in power just decides they need to be off the streets.
It's a difficult situation that needs to be worked out. I agree. But how does eliminating or reducing Rights on good people, take weapons out of the hands of criminals? Mental health is the root of the issue, not guns.
blckslvr79 is online now   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
I'm taking care of my procrastination issues, just you wait and see.
Old 12-20-2012, 07:20 AM   #26
XQIZT
You've been pimped!!
 
XQIZT's Avatar
 
Posts: 12,855
Member #80197
Member since: Jan 2009
Location: Orlando, FL

My Corvette(s)
1985 Z51, 1977 custom

Thanks: 26
Thanked 185 Times in 159 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by blckslvr79 View Post
It's a difficult situation that needs to be worked out. I agree. But how does eliminating or reducing Rights on good people, take weapons out of the hands of criminals? Mental health is the root of the issue, not guns.
This is definitely a multifaceted issued that is going to have a complex solution.

Better access to healthcare and long-term diagnosis is important. But as part of that, should we say that a family with someone mentally ill should not be able to own certain weapons, because the risk is too great to others? Like it or not, PART of the solution is going to be limitations, etc.

If that crazy kid's mom didn't have those weapons in her house, would we be talking about this at all? I'm not saying its the ONLY answer, but it has to be considered.

Try it another way...you have to put a pyromaniac in one of 2 rooms. One has 2 sticks and a ball of wet yarn. The other has 4 blowtorches, 7 zippo lighters and a pallet of old dry newspaper. Your goal is to go for the longest amount of time without a fire starting. Where do you put him?

And my final thought...how many of us support the ban of a nuclear arms Iran? Why? Yes, it's a matter of scale, but the "Why" answer is the issue.
XQIZT is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
"Alexa" - 1985 Z51 - In memory of the last Corvette Dad owned.

"Desiree" - 1977 - Wife's car, with an attitude problem

Click here for more info about our cars and autocrossing and other Corvette stuff.
Old 12-20-2012, 07:27 AM   #27
Texdentist
 
Texdentist's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,958
Member #76657
Member since: Oct 2008
Location: Crowley, TX

My Corvette(s)
2013 Coupe, 2009 Coupe - traded, '74 Coupe totalled, '77 Coupe sold

Thanks: 59
Thanked 567 Times in 415 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by XQIZT View Post
Better access to healthcare and long-term diagnosis is important.
Simple access to mental healthcare doesn't help these situations because people like this almost never accept that care. Part of their mental illness is that they think they are normal and everyone else is screwed up. If a parent/family member suggests getting mental health help, they think there is some kind of conspiracy against them. And coercing them legally is very difficult -- that seems to be what this mother was trying to do. But like I said, easing up that process can lead to abuse and the detention of people who don't deserve it. Tough problem.
Texdentist is online now   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2012, 07:35 AM   #28
XQIZT
You've been pimped!!
 
XQIZT's Avatar
 
Posts: 12,855
Member #80197
Member since: Jan 2009
Location: Orlando, FL

My Corvette(s)
1985 Z51, 1977 custom

Thanks: 26
Thanked 185 Times in 159 Posts
Tex...what you say is true. We've got to come at this from many angles...and some of it can't be legislated. It's takes more community and family involvement, etc. But I don't think that we can all sit by and say "this problem is too difficult" or "I'm not willing to consider giving an INCH on MY beliefs", etc and then just hope that this doesn't happen again.
XQIZT is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
"Alexa" - 1985 Z51 - In memory of the last Corvette Dad owned.

"Desiree" - 1977 - Wife's car, with an attitude problem

Click here for more info about our cars and autocrossing and other Corvette stuff.
Old 12-20-2012, 07:39 AM   #29
Texdentist
 
Texdentist's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,958
Member #76657
Member since: Oct 2008
Location: Crowley, TX

My Corvette(s)
2013 Coupe, 2009 Coupe - traded, '74 Coupe totalled, '77 Coupe sold

Thanks: 59
Thanked 567 Times in 415 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by XQIZT View Post
Tex...what you say is true. We've got to come at this from many angles...and some of it can't be legislated. It's takes more community and family involvement, etc. But I don't think that we can all sit by and say "this problem is too difficult" or "I'm not willing to consider giving an INCH on MY beliefs", etc and then just hope that this doesn't happen again.
Oh, I agree. We have to try to reduce the possibility of these shootings by attacking the problem from several angles. But it's kind of like terrorism. You can protect on 100 fronts, and they will always find another one you haven't prepared for. IMO, we will plan, we will make some changes, and shootings like this will continue at the rate of 1 or 2 majors a year anyway.
Texdentist is online now   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2012, 08:49 AM   #30
HardcoreABN
DC Crew
 
HardcoreABN's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,546
Member #36463
Member since: Jul 2005
Location: FT. Bragg/Fayetteville, NC

My Corvette(s)
2000 Torch Red/Red Z51 coupe

Thanks: 34
Thanked 147 Times in 112 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by XQIZT View Post
This is definitely a multifaceted issued that is going to have a complex solution.

Better access to healthcare and long-term diagnosis is important. But as part of that, should we say that a family with someone mentally ill should not be able to own certain weapons, because the risk is too great to others? Like it or not, PART of the solution is going to be limitations, etc.

If that crazy kid's mom didn't have those weapons in her house, would we be talking about this at all? I'm not saying its the ONLY answer, but it has to be considered.

Try it another way...you have to put a pyromaniac in one of 2 rooms. One has 2 sticks and a ball of wet yarn. The other has 4 blowtorches, 7 zippo lighters and a pallet of old dry newspaper. Your goal is to go for the longest amount of time without a fire starting. Where do you put him?

And my final thought...how many of us support the ban of a nuclear arms Iran? Why? Yes, it's a matter of scale, but the "Why" answer is the issue.
In the case of arson, nobody blames what the arsonist used to light/start the fires- they blame the arsonist. Same situation, so why place the blame differently?
HardcoreABN is online now   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
ASE Certified Automotive Repair Technician in: Suspension and Steering, Brakes, Electrical/Electronic Systems, and Heating and Air Conditioning

402 LS2- Callies Compstar crank/rods, Wiesco pistons, 11.5:1 c/r, Custom 235/250 .621/.595 115+4cam from Martin @ Tick, CNC LS3 heads, Edelbrock Victor water pump, Melling oil pump, Halltech air intake, LS7 MAF, Jet-Hot coated LG long tube headers, Corsa Tigershark exhaust, Hotchkis sway bars, Monster level 3 clutch, return style fuel system, 2 stage nitrous plate system
The Following User Says Thank You to HardcoreABN For This Useful Post:
Vette_Newb (12-20-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (12 CHARACTERS MAXIMUM), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:08 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
© 2003-2011, DigitalCorvettes.com - All Rights Reserved