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Old 12-14-2012, 11:38 PM   #31
Reino
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Quote:
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Yeah but the point is that a 6 cylinder NEEDS boost in order to hang with an NA V8. Look at the history:

A 911 NEEDS boost to hang with a C4.
A Supra NEEDS boost to hang with a C5.
A GT-R NEEDS boost to hang with a C6.

You cannot put a V8 in any of those cars without severely unbalancing them. The Corvette is perfectly balanced with a V8.

...and what happens when you spray a tiny bit of NOS in a Corvette? All those turbos are far in the rear view mirror...

'There is no replacement for displacement' isn't just an anecdote. It's a fact.


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Old 12-15-2012, 12:15 AM   #32
Roadkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reino View Post
Yeah but the point is that a 6 cylinder NEEDS boost in order to hang with an NA V8. Look at the history:

A 911 NEEDS boost to hang with a C4.
A Supra NEEDS boost to hang with a C5.
A GT-R NEEDS boost to hang with a C6.

...and what happens when you spray a tiny bit of NOS in a Corvette? All those turbos are far in the rear view mirror...

'There is no replacement for displacement' isn't just an anecdote. It's a fact.


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Correction, a small V-6 needs boost in order to produce the level of power of a large displacement V-8.

A 3.5L V-6 doesn't need boost to keep up with a 3.5L V-8 for example....
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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. " Aristotle
Old 12-21-2012, 11:20 PM   #33
dreamcars99
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It sin't just the AWD system, there have been plenty of cars with AWD and the understeer (though not as bad as FWD cars).

Its the computer system, its AWD system has its own ECO and can split the power between 50:50 to 2:98 and split the torque between both rear wheels. The computer on the AWD system does a lot of work and it all works very well together. To the point where its specs on a spec sheet isn't that impressive in the performance world and yet its faster then cars that it shouldn't be faster then.

There have been suggestions that the Nissan GTR was under rated from the factory. That when it first came out with a 480BHP rating that it was producing a good amount more then that. Now for 2013 it has a 545BHP rating and the car has been tweaked and improved on every single year in a major way. Its rating went from 480BHP to 485BHP after that to 530BHP and now 545BHP where it stands. Also the car has had its suspension retuned pretty much every year that its been in production. The car has actually gotten both longer and wider since it came out, as a vehicle program its a model IMHO to what every car maker should do to its performance car.

Just think, the 2012 C6 Z06 ran a 7:22 on the ring.... if GM did what Nissan did they car would have its suspension tuning changed for 2013 and it would run something like a 7:18.... then for 2014....
I hear you, if GM kept working on the ring times, they would no doub tcome down. Shoot, a shorter 5th gear would have knocked 1-2 seconds off that lap. If you watch the GT-Rs 7:24 lap and then the Z06's 7:22 lap, its striking how perfect the GT-Rs lap is driven, and how the Z06's has a couple flubs and such.

And don't get me wrong, 100% of the Corvette fans who have complained that they have a mere "engineer" driving their cars at the 'ring are wrong. Mero drives like man, anybody, its just clear that whoever drives the GT-R had alot more tries than Mero did. Alot more. I can't imagine Nissans budget for 'ring marketing laps, its got to be stratospheric.

The GT-Rs setup is brilliant, and its AWD system is incredible, but ultimately that AWD system is worth more in a straight line than it is in the track-lap-time tests that have come into vogue in the last few years. Zero-shift times + AWD + low gearing lead ot better 0-60 times (and often carrying into the 1/4 mile) than can probably be had with a RWD car, at least a front engine RWD car. But the C6 has fairly well mopped the floor with the GT-R in lap time tests since the C6 got some properly good tires.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the C7, in Z51 or Gran Sport trim, the base C7, will be pretty competitive with the GT-R for lap times, provided they offer good tires on that trim. It has no chance of beating the GT-R 0-60.

The AWD, short gearing, DCT combo is ultimately more powerful in a straight line than it is on a track.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:27 PM   #34
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On the torque issue you can not beat a turbo charge motor. The ls3 has good low end grunt however the gtr engine puts it to shame.
on a dyno this is true, in real life... Ive not driven, nor by any means, every turbocharged car ever made, but I repeatedly read that the GT-R has less lag than anything.

Its still a ton of lag. Take the Z06 or the LP560 and stab its throttle from, say, a 20mph roll, and you have an instant neck-jerking surge of forward thrust. Do the same in the GT-R and there is a distinct pause before it takes off.

Now if you find a couple of tightly spaced corners and pull up fast to one, break, get on the gas for the next. The GT-R's lag is very modest and hardly meaningful.

For that reason alone, I prefer NA engines, or I guess supercharged engines. The thrill of jerking your neck backwards by stabbing the gas in first gear is one you can have on your way to the grocery store, these cars have gotten so ridiculously fast and so ridiculously able to corner at ridiculous speeds, that a guy can rarely actualy enjoy them unless you go out of your way to do so. NA engines do that better - that neck snapping little burst of acceleration - and that makes it possible to enjoy them more often than a turbo motor.

OTOH, the GT-R is so stealthy, nobody notices it, and its so quiet, that you can launch the bugger right from a stoplight and get away with it... So that stealth gives it some ability to be fun here and there during real life also.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:31 PM   #35
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I;ll offer this about the 2013 GT-R, it doesn't drive like a robot, its a ton of fun to drive. I challenge anybody to drive one for 2 weeks and then come back and say "wow that car just is lame, i mean its fast, but its lame", its a very interesting and fun car to drive.

And one thing I really appreciate about it is that, while its hardly a perfect design, in looks, in interior, in whatever, they obviously put alot of care into it. You do not have

-a parts bin Cobalt steering wheel and Pontiac NAV screen (vette)
-lame seats (vette_
-a parts bin $5 worst-ever-in-a-car-since-the-70's radio (f430)
-a parts bin Audi A4 infotainment system (lp560) with, by the way, 2 speakers, total.

As far as I can tell, the car is a unique piece, unique unto itself, and that is pretty dang cool.
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