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Old 01-06-2013, 09:05 AM   #1
c3c7 norm
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Some Sunday Morning Religion History...

For those that may be offended by any type of religion, especially about the USA, don't open it, you may not lke it.

http://stg.do/Iwpc
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:39 AM   #2
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A very poignant video, yet an awesome message and insight into the bedrock our country was built upon. Thanks for posting.
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A government that robs Peter to pay Paul...can always depend on the support of Paul.

A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.

"I'm really easy to get along with once you learn to see things my way"

"INTEGRITY first, SERVICE before self, and EXCELLENCE in all we do".
Old 01-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #3
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That's a good find!
More food for thought -
Every Preamble to each of the 50 State constitutions
makes an acknowledgment of God.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:52 PM   #4
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Link didn't work for me, though I've done a lot of reading on the subject. Just too broad of a subject. When looking at religion, how far back do you go? How many folks that go to church even know that the cross is a pagan symbol?? not many.

God means many things to many people, and having grew up in the baptist church, I'm always wary of anyone who throws "god" out there and wear religion on their sleeves. There is always an ulterior motive. They're always the biggest hypocrits. Just as most anti-gay zealots, always turn out to be... well gay. See that a lot in the GOP.

If "God" was so important to our states throughout the countries history... well then, our history wouldn't "read" that way it does.

Bottom line - Action speaks louder than words.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c6vettedude View Post
Link didn't work for me, though I've done a lot of reading on the subject. Just too broad of a subject. When looking at religion, how far back do you go? How many folks that go to church even know that the cross is a pagan symbol?? not many.

God means many things to many people, and having grew up in the baptist church, I'm always wary of anyone who throws "god" out there and wear religion on their sleeves. There is always an ulterior motive. They're always the biggest hypocrits. Just as most anti-gay zealots, always turn out to be... well gay. See that a lot in the GOP.

If "God" was so important to our states throughout the countries history... well then, our history wouldn't "read" that way it does.

Bottom line - Action speaks louder than words.
Clearly talking without seeing the video. Your words actually prove the videos point of most Americans are clueless about American history and how intertwined it was in religious history. It is only in recent history (last 50 - 70 years) that things have been changing.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ddregehr View Post
Clearly talking without seeing the video. Your words actually prove the videos point of most Americans are clueless about American history and how intertwined it was in religious history. It is only in recent history (last 50 - 70 years) that things have been changing.
As I said, I the link didn't work for me, but it doesn't take genious to see what he was talking about. BTW, every coin has 2 sides. FNC hosts get busted every year talking the same stuff during christmas,...even Bill O' had to concede.

Perhaps it is you who are clueless. Perhaps you should read Thomas Paine's book "Age of Reason".

HIS-STORY!
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:07 PM   #7
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You may be a tad off track here on this one, you may want to view the video. It shows various religious type pictures in the rotunda of the Capitol building in DC.

I sent a pm requesting if you wanted, I'd send it to you in an email. If too intrusive for you, I apologize.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:08 PM   #8
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Speaking of religion, did you hear Jesus was married. No wonder he didn't want to come off the cross.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C3C6 Norm View Post
You may be a tad off track here on this one, you may want to view the video. It shows various religious type pictures in the rotunda of the Capitol building in DC.

I sent a pm requesting if you wanted, I'd send it to you in an email. If too intrusive for you, I apologize.
No problem at all! Can you pm the info??
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:27 PM   #10
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No problem at all! Can you pm the info??
I'll give it a try.

http://stg.do/Iwpc
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:37 PM   #11
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Ahhh David Barton, will check it out on youtube. I've seen a few of his vids, he's definitely a far right christian fundamentalist. Not saying that makes everything he says wrong, but those types have the ability to see things in the grilled cheese that no one else can see.

Whether far right or far left, some fact checking should be done. A lot of his stuff has been credibly debunked. Good stuff regardlesss,.. as I see it, it's important to see what people are seeing, whether you agree with them or not.

My previous comments were based off of the comments that I was reading...though I agree... off topic...which I tend to do at times .
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c6vettedude View Post
Link didn't work for me, though I've done a lot of reading on the subject.
You might want to do a little more reading.
The cross has been used both as a religious symbol
and as an ornament from the dawn of man's civilization.
Obviously it was not invented by Christians and
it was in use, long before the pagans.
New Testament scripture that refers to the cross is a mistranslation. The word "cross" in William Tyndale's
original writings is spelled "Crosse"
However, the Greek word he should have translated
from is "Stauros" and should be
translated as "Stake". Much research agrees
that the true word for cross is "crux" and came
from Latin. It is interesting to note that this
Greek word "Crux" cannot be found in the
New Testament at all, but the word "Stauros" which
translates as "Stake" is found in every place where
Tyndale used the word Cross.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4716
Original Word Word Origin
stauro from the base of
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Stauros 7:572,1071
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
stow-ros' Noun Masculine
Definition
an upright stake, esp. a pointed one
a cross
a well known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves
the crucifixion which Christ underwent.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexic...s/stauros.html

The common form of capital punishment during
Jesus's time was being nailed to a stake which
some may have had the shape of a cross.
IMHO, it's a moot point to argue over how
He was murdered.
To suggest that Christianity borrowed the cross
from paganism and therefore Christ is a fable,
seems more than a bit odd, when one realizes
the common form of capital punishment at the
time was being beaten & nailed to a stake / cross.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
You might want to do a little more reading.
The cross has been used both as a religious symbol
and as an ornament from the dawn of man's civilization.
Obviously it was not invented by Christians and
it was in use, long before the pagans.
New Testament scripture that refers to the cross is a mistranslation. The word "cross" in William Tyndale's
original writings is spelled "Crosse"
However, the Greek word he should have translated
from is "Stauros" and should be
translated as "Stake". Much research agrees
that the true word for cross is "crux" and came
from Latin. It is interesting to note that this
Greek word "Crux" cannot be found in the
New Testament at all, but the word "Stauros" which
translates as "Stake" is found in every place where
Tyndale used the word Cross.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4716
Original Word Word Origin
stauro from the base of
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Stauros 7:572,1071
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
stow-ros' Noun Masculine
Definition
an upright stake, esp. a pointed one
a cross
a well known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves
the crucifixion which Christ underwent.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexic...s/stauros.html

The common form of capital punishment during
Jesus's time was being nailed to a stake which
some may have had the shape of a cross.
IMHO, it's a moot point to argue over how
He was murdered.
To suggest that Christianity borrowed the cross
from paganism and therefore Christ is a fable,
seems more than a bit odd, when one realizes
the common form of capital punishment at the
time was being beaten & nailed to a stake / cross.
Good stuff! But often too I find that the more I dig, the more the info changes. Seems since everything is borrowed from someone else, the further back you go in history, the more things change. A lot of the info simply depends on who's doing the work. Some simply stop where they're happy, instread of digging deeper.

As for religion, if you look at all of the symbology, which I'm sure you've probably done lots of research on, all symbols of Christianity and Catholism were adopted from pagan cultures. All of the stories of the bible as well go back to the Ancient Sumerians and beyond, covering well over a dozen other civilizations. The story of Horus, Mithra, Santurnalia and tons and tons of info.

My main point was that if something isn't built on something "real", then why do people suppose it would change the way a country does business? The fact that so many crimes of humanity were all perpetrated in the name of religion is telling.

Don't want to get too far into the "religion" thing, but it's nice to even be able to mention it without the thread being locked. So many forums just don't allow it.

It's always good to see folks digging and searching for the truth though. The way I see out, no one will ever really know unless you could be there. What is written, is most always written with some sort of slant in either direction.

Good stuff!
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:07 AM   #14
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Crucifixion is an ancient method of deliberately slow and painful execution in which the condemned person is tied or nailed to a large wooden cross and left to hang until dead.
Crucifixion was used among the Seleucids, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD. In the year 337, Emperor Constantine I abolished it in the Roman Empire out of veneration for Jesus Christ, the most famous victim of crucifixion.[1][2] It was also used as a form of execution in Japan for criminals, inflicted also on some Christians.

1. a b Encyclopędia Britannica. "Encyclopaedia Britannica Online: crucifixion". Britannica.com. Retrieved 2009-12-19.
2. "Crucifixion". Mb-soft.com. Retrieved 2009-12-19.

c6vettedude, so what you are saying is you believe nothing you read except what you write because everything is slanted in some form or fashion? The cross was an instrument of capital punishment that turned into a religious symbol around 33 AD, because of the death of Jesus of Nazareth. There are enough historical documents available that this could be proven in a modern court of law.

It is your opinion that Barton is left leaning and his proof is tainted in some fashion, but I would be interest in hearing a counter to his arguments from other documents sources. He owns many of the original manuscripts, letters and documents from our countries founding fathers. He uses words that they have written in their own hand to make his point. What I find interesting is that everyone talks about the need for the separation between church and state and yet this is not in our constitution or any government documents. It is mentioned in a personal letter from Thomas Jefferson regarding a separate issue all together. It was meant to be a one sided separation. The government was not to interfere with the affairs of the Church, but the church should have influence in the affairs of government. Thomas Jefferson asked for a separation of Government From Church, but not vis versa.

Joseph Story one of the first Supreme Court Justices stated,

"There is not a truth to be gathered from history more certain, or more momentous, than this: that civil liberty cannot long be separated from religious liberty without danger, and ultimately without destruction to both. Wherever religious liberty exists, it will, first or last, bring in and establish political liberty."

When the government starts limiting our religious freedom by taking prayer out of schools and limiting what pastors can say from the pulpit, our civil liberty is in jeopardy.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c6vettedude View Post
Good stuff! But often too I find that the more I dig, the more the info changes. Seems since everything is borrowed from someone else, the further back you go in history, the more things change. A lot of the info simply depends on who's doing the work. Some simply stop where they're happy, instread of digging deeper.
I agree and that is why I have found it necessary to
avoid or "assume" that any specific church doctrine
is correct. Yes I belong to a church and yes I accept
their basic doctrine but I do not believe it is
100% accurate.
When you consider that at the time of Jesus,
the Greek language was the most widely used form
of speech and writing. That said, it wasn't long before
there were Coptic translations and problems arise
with these because of the various dialects such as
Bohairic and Sahidic. Northern Egypt used the
Bohairic dialect and Southern Egypt used the
Sahidic dialect. Both Clement of Alexandria and
Origen, who taught in the northern city of
Alexandrea and the area around the Nile delta,
probably used these translations as well as the
Syriac and Old Latin translations of the Greek writings.
Considering all this took place before an English
translation was even a thought, it's a wonder we
have anything close to a factual record.

To put this in perspective, we have people right now
arguing over the meaning of the 2nd amendment
to the constitution. If people can't agree on the 2nd amendment, written in English, just a (relatively)
short time ago. it becomes clear on why religion
can sometimes be a divisive topic.

Quote:
As for religion, if you look at all of the symbology, which I'm sure you've probably done lots of research on, all symbols of Christianity and Catholism were adopted from pagan cultures.
I don't think all symbols were. I think some were and some are simply a coincidence.
Take for example the Christian fish symbol that some
claim was co opted from pagans.
The theme of Jesus' disciples as "fishers of men"
and the Greek word for "fish" made an acronym
that spelled out a title for Jesus Christ. There is
absolutely no correlation here to what the pagans
viewed the fish as.
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