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Old 01-07-2013, 05:13 PM   #61
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As I said earlier, this is all Boehner's fault:


Interestingly enough, the bill that the Senate passed, HR 1, was orignally a House bill, House Resolution 1 entitled, "Making appropriations for the Department of Defense and the other departments and agencies of the Government for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2011, and for other purposes”, passed on February 19, 2011.... a full 20 months before Sandy hit. The Senate did not give consideration on it until December 13, 2012 when it magically became "Hurricane Sandy Supplemental Appropriations Bill".

Now the real question is, why did the Senate choose to act on an appropriations bill that it had otherwise left to die? Why was it left to die orignally? Because it was uncompromisingly flawed, partisan, and a failure........ basically it was a pork buffet. Here's the best summary I have read describing the Senae's actions in passing this bill:

Quote:
Appropriations bills, however, are designed to appropriate. In other words, they exist to allocate money. Spending money, amazingly, is something that the Senate cannot do alone. Budgets have to come from the House. The upper chamber needed a car to drive but did not have the keys. So they hot-wired it through the House’s legislation in hilariously ridiculous fashion

- John Aronno
But if Rep King and Gov. Christie want to lay blame at the feet of John Boehner they can continue to do so but at the expense of the fleecing of tax payers in an attempt to get their money without regard to the wasteful spending for others.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:40 PM   #62
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Aren't you just the tricky lawyer. Yes the final bill was not passed for a while, but on the second of September...just four days after katrina a $10.5 billion emergency fund was passed through congress and signed by GWB. On September 8th another bill for $51.8 billion was signed by Bush. The final bill brought the total to $100 billion.

So according to your fuzzy logic your attempt to paint this situation falsly has backfired badly.
No.
To the contrary, you are the only person here who
has falsely painted the entire issue.
I don't even like Boehner, so it frustrates me that
I am defending him but unlike you,
I always defend the truth.

It also frustrates me that we are even talking
about the federal government playing Santa Claus
after a natural disaster. Clearly,
it is not the function of the federal government
to play Nanny when a disaster hits.
Anyone planning to rebuild on below sea level
property should be told they will never be given
another hand-out if mother nature dumps on
them again.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:02 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
Anyone planning to rebuild on below sea level
property
should be told they will never be given
another hand-out if mother nature dumps on
them again.
I don't really care much about the rest of this thread, but this bit bothers me. There is NO PLACE in this country that is safe from natural disasters. Replace "below sea level property" with "in a tornado zone," " in a hurricane zone," "in a wildfire zone," "in an earthquake zone," "in a blizzard zone" etc etc. Where CAN you live?
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:49 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by XQIZT View Post
I don't really care much about the rest of this thread, but this bit bothers me. There is NO PLACE in this country that is safe from natural disasters. Replace "below sea level property" with "in a tornado zone," " in a hurricane zone," "in a wildfire zone," "in an earthquake zone," "in a blizzard zone" etc etc. Where CAN you live?
I agree. My response seems a bit harsh but think
about it. Your comparisons have merit but rebuilding
at below sea level is a bit like pouring gasoline
on your house when you live in a wildfire zone
and you've been told that the fire is a half mile away.

Another analogy might be if you race your Corvette.
Yes, the risk of damaging your car while racing is much
higher than normal driving but if someone wants to
race their Vette, it's up to them to take responsibility
for that activity. If they know they have a bad ball joint
and elect to neglect that problem and go out and race,
then I say, you get what you deserve.
That's what I am saying here.
To me, the bad ball joint is like "below sea level".
Living below sea level (especially close to the ocean
or any body of water) will always be a problem waiting
to happen.
Murphy's law will always play out.
All I am saying is, if someone wants continue to live
in area like that, fine. You know the risk, so take
the appropriate responsibility, plan accordingly and
don't expect the government to bail you out.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:45 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
No.
To the contrary, you are the only person here who
has falsely painted the entire issue.
I don't even like Boehner, so it frustrates me that
I am defending him but unlike you,
I always defend the truth.

It also frustrates me that we are even talking
about the federal government playing Santa Claus
after a natural disaster. Clearly,
it is not the function of the federal government
to play Nanny when a disaster hits.
Anyone planning to rebuild on below sea level
property should be told they will never be given
another hand-out if mother nature dumps on
them again.
Your attempts to change the subject here are childish. You try to paint a false narative about huricane Katrina and super storm Sandy by saying that the last bill for Katrina was passed 3 and 1/2 months after the storm, but of course neglect to say that two other bills totaling more than $60 billion passed within 10 days of the storm. Then when caught you post up this drivle.

You then try and paint the entire New York metropolitan region as somehow at risk...by saying that 35% of Jersey city is below sea level, but of course jersey city makes up less than 1% of the effected area, and the area below sea level is prepared for flooding and did not suffer major damage. The hardest hit areas were those that were not even in a flood zone and thus not eligible for flood insurance.

But of course if you would like to compare apples to apples, how bout you let us all know how much of New Orleans lies below sea level. You know the city that got it's emergency funding in less than 10 days. I'll give you a hint....it is more than 79% below sea level.

You have a funny way of defending truth....by trying to obfuscate it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:50 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
I agree. My response seems a bit harsh but think
about it. Your comparisons have merit but rebuilding
at below sea level is a bit like pouring gasoline
on your house when you live in a wildfire zone
and you've been told that the fire is a half mile away.

Another analogy might be if you race your Corvette.
Yes, the risk of damaging your car while racing is much
higher than normal driving but if someone wants to
race their Vette, it's up to them to take responsibility
for that activity. If they know they have a bad ball joint
and elect to neglect that problem and go out and race,
then I say, you get what you deserve.
That's what I am saying here.
To me, the bad ball joint is like "below sea level".
Living below sea level (especially close to the ocean
or any body of water) will always be a problem waiting
to happen.
Murphy's law will always play out.
All I am saying is, if someone wants continue to live
in area like that, fine. You know the risk, so take
the appropriate responsibility, plan accordingly and
don't expect the government to bail you out.
But of course the only area below sea level is small area compared with the area of devesatation. The parts of Jersey city that are below sea level are either on pilings or open fields, and not the subject of concern. The hardest hit areas are above sea level, but of course you cannot post about that becuase then you would sound like a heartless ass like Boehner and all the other pubs that are playing politics with a natural disaster.

Hope you like democrat presidents and congresses from now on....because this is going to cost republicans big time.

Oh and by the way...one of the many states included in this disaster relief is Ohio.

Last edited by the machine; 01-08-2013 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:51 AM   #67
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Please explain this:

If my house burns down, Me or my insurance pays for it or I'm shit outta luck

If my house is leveled by a tornado me or my insurance pays for it or I'm shit outta luck

But if the fire burns down my whole neighborhood the government should step in and help pay for it?

But if the Tornado levels a whole neighborhood the government should step in and offer to pay for it?

What is the cut off point of how many people effected and when the government is responsiable for payiong for it?....looking forward to you humble opinion
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:12 AM   #68
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Hope you like democrat presidents and congresses from now on....because this is going to cost republicans big time.
Like NY and NJ were gonna vote a lot of Pubs in anyway.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:20 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by walleyfisher View Post
Please explain this:

If my house burns down, Me or my insurance pays for it or I'm shit outta luck

If my house is leveled by a tornado me or my insurance pays for it or I'm shit outta luck

But if the fire burns down my whole neighborhood the government should step in and help pay for it?

But if the Tornado levels a whole neighborhood the government should step in and offer to pay for it?

What is the cut off point of how many people effected and when the government is responsiable for payiong for it?....looking forward to you humble opinion

If your house burns down you have insurance to pay for it.
If a tornado hits insurance will pay for it.
If a huricane hits your insurance has named storm exceptions so it may not pay for your damage.

I don't mind discussing the payment of natural disaster relief when there is no one waiting to get that relief, but I find it truly tasteless to discuss it when people are waiting to get help.

I would be fine saying after this there will be no futrther help given to any area hit by a natural disaster, and let all the states agree....but I truly doubt that Florida, Louisianna, Georgia, south Carolina, North carolina, Texas, Oklahoma, California, or Ohio would go along with that.

I would love to see any politician sponsor a bill saying this. My prediction is...it won't happen. But I will tell you what is happening right now. The citizens of NY and NJ and PA and CT, are looking at what the pubs are doing right now and wondering why they elect any republicans at all. Hell even peter King a republican says that any NY or NJ resident that contributes one cent to help elect a republican is crazy. If you did not have the northeast republicans that are in the house today...the pubs would not have a majority. The pubs should just continue to act like complete assholes....that way no one feels bad when they are out in the cold.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:22 AM   #70
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Like NY and NJ were gonna vote a lot of Pubs in anyway.
They voted for enough to give the pubs the majority in the house.....I wouldn't count on that going forward.

Just so you know what is at stake....the New England states sent 10 members to the house as republicans plus 2 in NY. NJ sent 6 additional Republicans to the house. Change those 18 Rs to Ds and you have a majority for the dems.

Oh and if any of the 8 from PA switch over well that just makes things worse for the pubs.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:36 AM   #71
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If your house burns down you have insurance to pay for it.
If a tornado hits insurance will pay for it.
If a huricane hits your insurance has named storm exceptions so it may not pay for your damage.

I don't mind discussing the payment of natural disaster relief when there is no one waiting to get that relief, but I find it truly tasteless to discuss it when people are waiting to get help.

I would be fine saying after this there will be no futrther help given to any area hit by a natural disaster, and let all the states agree....but I truly doubt that Florida, Louisianna, Georgia, south Carolina, North carolina, Texas, Oklahoma, California, or Ohio would go along with that.

I would love to see any politician sponsor a bill saying this. My prediction is...it won't happen. But I will tell you what is happening right now. The citizens of NY and NJ and PA and CT, are looking at what the pubs are doing right now and wondering why they elect any republicans at all. Hell even peter King a republican says that any NY or NJ resident that contributes one cent to help elect a republican is crazy. If you did not have the northeast republicans that are in the house today...the pubs would not have a majority. The pubs should just continue to act like complete assholes....that way no one feels bad when they are out in the cold.
nice deflection
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:39 AM   #72
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They voted for enough to give the pubs the majority in the house.....I wouldn't count on that going forward.

Just so you know what is at stake....the Northeast states sent 10 members to the house as republicans including NY. NJ sent 6 additional Republicans to the house. Change those 16 Rs to Ds and you have a pretty formidable majority for the dems.
Hmmm. I'm seeing a 33 member margin for the Pubs. Switch those 16 to Dems and you have a slight Pub lead. But I get your point. The political aspect of this is a non-story outside the NE. Most Americans want the appropriate help, but with due diligence to make sure the taxpayers aren't fleeced -- there was a lot of that in Katrina. But since the Dems have completely lost any sense of due diligence on anything pertaining to government spending, it falls to the Pubs to be the bad guys and insist on careful oversight of these massive expenditures.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:46 AM   #73
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So from all accounts the pork that held this bill up was about $150 million for fisheries in Mississippi and Alaska and another $58.9 million for a dept of agriculture request to plant trees, and a $5.9 million package for Kennedy space center. Hell lets say there is 15 times more pork in there than that.....that would add up to $1 billion. So instead of the $82 billion that NJ and NY governors requested why couldn't congress just say OK we see about $60.4 billion here but it has an extra $1 billion of pork do we will give them $59.4 billion and let them get to work.
The pork-barrel feast includes more than $8 million to buy cars and equipment for the Homeland Security and Justice departments. It also includes a whopping $150 million for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to dole out to fisheries in Alaska and $2 million for the Smithsonian Institution to repair museum roofs in DC.

An eye-popping $13 Billion would go to “mitigation” projects to prepare for future storms.

Other big-ticket items in the bill include $207 million for the VA Manhattan Medical Center; $41 million to fix up eight military bases along the storm’s path, including Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; $4 million for repairs at Kennedy Space Center in Florida; $3.3 million for the Plum Island Animal Disease Center and $1.1 million to repair national cemeteries.

More:

$58.8 million for forest restoration on private land.
$197 million “to… protect coastal ecosystems and habitat impacted by Hurricane Sandy.”
$10.78 billion for public transportation, most of which is allocated to future construction and improvements, not disaster relief.
$17 billion for wasteful Community Development Block Grants (CDBG), a program that has become notorious for its use as a backdoor earmark program.

According to my fuzzy math, all of that adds
up to 41.5 (B) as in Billion.

Therefore, when you generously rounded up up and
suggested that it might only have One Billion in
pork, you were only off by forty times.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:49 AM   #74
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Hmmm. I'm seeing a 33 member margin for the Pubs. Switch those 16 to Dems and you have a slight Pub lead. But I get your point. The political aspect of this is a non-story outside the NE. Most Americans want the appropriate help, but with due diligence to make sure the taxpayers aren't fleeced -- there was a lot of that in Katrina. But since the Dems have completely lost any sense of due diligence on anything pertaining to government spending, it falls to the Pubs to be the bad guys and insist on careful oversight of these massive expenditures.
There are 10 from New England 2 from NY and 6 from NJ. that makes 18. Add in the 8 from Pa and...well you get the point.

Funny how you are willing to see the pubs do their due diligence now that the disaster is in the northeast and the pubs hold only the house...but there was none of it when the disaster was in the south and the pubs held the Whitehouse and both houses of congress. You would think those very responsible republicans would have been far more responsible when they held all the power....but as you point out they weren't and there was a lot of fleecing after Katrina.

But now explain to me why 59 Republicans even voted against the $9 billion bill???
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:42 AM   #75
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There are 10 from New England 2 from NY and 6 from NJ. that makes 18. Add in the 8 from Pa and...well you get the point.

Funny how you are willing to see the pubs do their due diligence now that the disaster is in the northeast and the pubs hold only the house...but there was none of it when the disaster was in the south and the pubs held the Whitehouse and both houses of congress. You would think those very responsible republicans would have been far more responsible when they held all the power....but as you point out they weren't and there was a lot of fleecing after Katrina.

But now explain to me why 59 Republicans even voted against the $9 billion bill???
You're pretty good at looking backward in time, but let me explain it for about the 10th time. Our economic situation in 2013 in no way resembles the economic situation in 2005 when Katrina hit. We have more than doubled our debt, and our country is in one of the longest sustained recessions in history. It would have been nice if our government had been more careful with it's spending in 2005, because hindsight shows that billions were wasted, much of the money going to people who didn't deserve it. Now money is much tighter, and it just makes sense to do something other than deliver dump truck loads of money. Democrats' free spending ways are much more about politics than sympathy. They are doing a bang-up job of situating themselves as the ever-giving party while forcing the Pubs to be the bad guys and insist on proper oversight and distribution of aid. But by doing so, not just with this aid, but with all forms of spending, they are selling our kids and grandkids down the river with debt that can never be repaid. Apparently you only care about the moment and to hell with the future consequences. Everyone on both sides knows what is happening to our economic future, but the Dems are choosing to play Santa Claus for the express purpose of making the Pubs look mean -- and you are living proof it is working. The Sandy damage is not going to be fixed in weeks or months. It is going to take years. There is absolutely no need to rush to allocate money when we have no idea at the moment how it will be spent. Passing a $60B bill right now would do nothing to speed up what is guaranteed to be a slow and painful process.
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