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Old 01-08-2013, 09:59 AM   #76
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You're pretty good at looking backward in time, but let me explain it for about the 10th time. Our economic situation in 2013 in no way resembles the economic situation in 2005 when Katrina hit. We have more than doubled our debt, and our country is in one of the longest sustained recessions in history. It would have been nice if our government had been more careful with it's spending in 2005, because hindsight shows that billions were wasted, much of the money going to people who didn't deserve it. Now money is much tighter, and it just makes sense to do something other than deliver dump truck loads of money. Democrats' free spending ways are much more about politics than sympathy. They are doing a bang-up job of situating themselves as the ever-giving party while forcing the Pubs to be the bad guys and insist on proper oversight and distribution of aid. But by doing so, not just with this aid, but with all forms of spending, they are selling our kids and grandkids down the river with debt that can never be repaid. Apparently you only care about the moment and to hell with the future consequences. Everyone on both sides knows what is happening to our economic future, but the Dems are choosing to play Santa Claus for the express purpose of making the Pubs look mean -- and you are living proof it is working. The Sandy damage is not going to be fixed in weeks or months. It is going to take years. There is absolutely no need to rush to allocate money when we have no idea at the moment how it will be spent. Passing a $60B bill right now would do nothing to speed up what is guaranteed to be a slow and painful process.
Well Tex...considering that the GMP (gross metropolitan product) for NY and Northern NJ is $1.2877 Trillion and the GMP for Philadelphia and Southern NJ is another $352.7 Billion I would think it only fiscaly prudent to make sure that in a time of bad economic conditions you don't let your number one producer in the nation get left behind. By the way...at $1.64 Trillion in production, the two combined regions would make it the #7 producer in the world just Behind Canada, at $1.7 trillion.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:09 AM   #77
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Well Tex...considering that the GMP (gross metropolitan product) for NY and Northern NJ is $1.2877 Trillion and the GMP for Philadelphia and Southern NJ is another $352.7 Billion I would think it only fiscaly prudent to make sure that in a time of bad economic conditions you don't let your number one producer in the nation get left behind. By the way...at $1.64 Trillion in production, the two combined regions would make it the #7 producer in the world just Behind Canada, at $1.7 trillion.
They aren't going to be left behind. The money they need WILL be approved. Everyone knows it. It's just a matter of whether congress will insist on the aid being spent for real disaster relief or write a blank check for every special interest group on the east coast. As a southwesterner, I want my tax dollars to help with genuine emergency relief and rebuilding. I do not want them spent for a lengthy wishlist of environmentalists desires or other such stuff. I think some of the angst coming from your area is just a natural human instinct to want to find someone to blame for every tragedy. We instinctively know we get no satisfaction from blaming the weather, so we look for someone else, and the politicians who seem to be working too slow for our taste are good targets. It's time to step back and look at the long picture. There will be no shortage of funds ultimately available. As a region, it's time to chill out and get to work cleaning up.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:24 AM   #78
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They aren't going to be left behind. The money they need WILL be approved. Everyone knows it. It's just a matter of whether congress will insist on the aid being spent for real disaster relief or write a blank check for every special interest group on the east coast. As a southwesterner, I want my tax dollars to help with genuine emergency relief and rebuilding. I do not want them spent for a lengthy wishlist of environmentalists desires or other such stuff. I think some of the angst coming from your area is just a natural human instinct to want to find someone to blame for every tragedy. We instinctively know we get no satisfaction from blaming the weather, so we look for someone else, and the politicians who seem to be working too slow for our taste are good targets. It's time to step back and look at the long picture. There will be no shortage of funds ultimately available. As a region, it's time to chill out and get to work cleaning up.
First of all the special interests that inserted themselves into this bill were not only east coast, since Mississippi and alaska are not on the east coast. And you can say all you want that time is not important, but a huge part of NJs economy is the Jersey Shore. Memorial day is only 4 months away. We have already lost 2 months and the municipalities that have boardwalk to fix said they might make it in time to repair the board walks if they could start soon enough. That is now not possible.

As a Jerseyan, I do not blame you or anybody else for the natural disaster that hit the region. But I and many people I am talking to certainly are blaming the Republicans of the house for the foot dragging that is turning this natural disaster into an economic one. And the way I see it that is going to mean a political disaster for the republican party.

As for chilling out....no problem as our people who are homeless and many without heat are living with sub freezing temeratures every night. I hope you didn't mean to be so tasteless in your little joke.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:58 AM   #79
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First of all the special interests that inserted themselves into this bill were not only east coast, since Mississippi and alaska are not on the east coast. And you can say all you want that time is not important, but a huge part of NJs economy is the Jersey Shore. Memorial day is only 4 months away. We have already lost 2 months and the municipalities that have boardwalk to fix said they might make it in time to repair the board walks if they could start soon enough. That is now not possible.

As a Jerseyan, I do not blame you or anybody else for the natural disaster that hit the region. But I and many people I am talking to certainly are blaming the Republicans of the house for the foot dragging that is turning this natural disaster into an economic one. And the way I see it that is going to mean a political disaster for the republican party.

As for chilling out....no problem as our people who are homeless and many without heat are living with sub freezing temeratures every night. I hope you didn't mean to be so tasteless in your little joke.
Of course I wasn't joking about anyone's plight. I just think misery looks for blame, whether it is deserved or not. I do not believe that anything the Pubs have done has slowed any recovery effort at all. Local and state governments along with industries are surely already working on clean-up and restoration. These budget discussions will only have an effect on the future. Just a question: Do the businesses that exist on that boardwalk have insurance? Surely they do. Being on the coast, I would think they would have the kind of insurance that pays for damage from hurricanes. Are you telling me no one can get money for rebuilding anything?
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:27 AM   #80
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Are you telling me no one can get money for rebuilding anything?

He has not been able to explain the emergency in spending the money for the last two days
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:04 PM   #81
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He has not been able to explain the emergency in spending the money for the last two days
That's because he's arguing to hear himself argue.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:07 PM   #82
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That's because he's arguing to hear himself argue.
I can't point fingers about that. My wife accuses me of doing that all the time.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:19 PM   #83
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I can't point fingers about that. My wife accuses me of doing that all the time.
We all do from time to time, but this thread is a prime example of it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:38 PM   #84
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I can't point fingers about that. My wife accuses me of doing that all the time.


Are we married to the same woman?
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:43 PM   #85
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Of course I wasn't joking about anyone's plight. I just think misery looks for blame, whether it is deserved or not. I do not believe that anything the Pubs have done has slowed any recovery effort at all. Local and state governments along with industries are surely already working on clean-up and restoration. These budget discussions will only have an effect on the future. Just a question: Do the businesses that exist on that boardwalk have insurance? Surely they do. Being on the coast, I would think they would have the kind of insurance that pays for damage from hurricanes. Are you telling me no one can get money for rebuilding anything?
The Businesses may have had insurance if they covered named storms...something most insurance does not cover. But the board walk the business is built on is owned by the municipalities. They are not insured. The rebuilding is a matter of going out for bid and hiring a contractor to build the board walk. The plans already exist since they are simply replacing what was there before. But the law does not allow for going out for bid until a source of funding is in place...as I mentioned yesterday.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:47 PM   #86
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He has not been able to explain the emergency in spending the money for the last two days
I have explained it many times...the fact that you refuse to listen is not my problem.

So this is the last time....To fix many of the things that were destroyed, local governments have to go out for bid for the work. By law you cannot go out for bid on a project until the funding is in place, either by a bond which a town may vote on or in this case federal aid. Now as tex said some projects first have to have plans drawn first before the bid can go out, and in that case the funding is needed to take that first step.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:48 PM   #87
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Are we married to the same woman?
Actually, we don't argue much, but when my 30 year-old son comes home, we argue about which is the big hand on the clock.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:55 PM   #88
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That's because he's arguing to hear himself argue.
I would much prefer to not have a total asshole like boner holding up this funding and sit back quietly and watch you make a fool of yourself as usual. But because you guys have to stand by whatever the pubs do regardless of thier correctness, the argument goes on. And everyday the argument goes on the pubs look a little more petty... a little worse. In the end as Tex said the full funding will come and the pubs will have lost any support they had in the northeast. In short they will have giained nothing but pissed off many. I would not be surprised to see northeast congressmen start turning on the party and voting with the dems to attempt to save their seats. That should help Boner....not.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:14 PM   #89
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I would much prefer to not have a total asshole like boner holding up this funding and sit back quietly and watch you make a fool of yourself as usual. But because you guys have to stand by whatever the pubs do regardless of thier correctness, the argument goes on. And everyday the argument goes on the pubs look a little more petty... a little worse. In the end as Tex said the full funding will come and the pubs will have lost any support they had in the northeast. In short they will have giained nothing but pissed off many. I would not be surprised to see northeast congressmen start turning on the party and voting with the dems to attempt to save their seats. That should help Boner....not.
You finally posted something I can grasp you point of view

The problem is its not a political problem but our current government has made it that. What should be being discussed is what really do you need right this moment not what you would like. Believe it or not we are broke and my sons piggy bank has already been robbed by our government.

And yes, the press will spin it hard enough so people like yourself will go out and preach how the Pubs want to push grandma over the cliff instead of putting the big boy pants on and tell the American public the freebies are going to be much much less for this country to survive. Just like Americans did to win WWII. It took ALL parties to pull together to do this. At the current time the Democratic party is only interested on defeating the Pubs and the Pubs are too stupid to see the light of day but you keep on spinning for Obamma it gives me something to ponder each day
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:42 PM   #90
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You finally posted something I can grasp you point of view

The problem is its not a political problem but our current government has made it that. What should be being discussed is what really do you need right this moment not what you would like. Believe it or not we are broke and my sons piggy bank has already been robbed by our government.

And yes, the press will spin it hard enough so people like yourself will go out and preach how the Pubs want to push grandma over the cliff instead of putting the big boy pants on and tell the American public the freebies are going to be much much less for this country to survive. Just like Americans did to win WWII. It took ALL parties to pull together to do this. At the current time the Democratic party is only interested on defeating the Pubs and the Pubs are too stupid to see the light of day but you keep on spinning for Obamma it gives me something to ponder each day
To win WWII we went into much more debt than we are in now relative to GDP. But it is hillariuos how important the debt has become to guys like you since the dems took control. Before when Cheney said deficits just don't matter, you all nodded and agreed, but now we cannot even spend to keep our biggest tax payer going. That is the problem with you guys no imagination at all. Fox tells you to be against something and like dumb blind robots you go out and preach the line you were taught to repeat.

Think for a minute for yourself. What happens if the New York metropolitan area goes into a deep recesion due to the inability of businesses to recover in the area. Here is a hint....the country will lose many billions of dollars in tax reciepts. Of course New Orleans was very important to rebuild right away...since that is where all the fine southern boys go to have sex with female impersonators.

PS the governors of NY and NJ presented a profesional writen estimate of damages and the total was $82 billion. that was reduced to $60.4 by Obama and now you guys say well just what you need. What we need was the 82 billion.
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