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Old 01-08-2013, 06:53 PM   #16
VetteUSA
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GM is so damn stupid, so it's not surprising to me that they can't come up with good ideas or designs. Hell, look at their entire lineup. The cars that have any personality can be counted on one hand, all the rest are cookie cutter boringly designed vehicles.

Corvette, Camaro, CTS. Seriously, i think that's about it.

They managed to screw up the final design of the Volt (which I thought looked really good as a concept), so the production Volt has no personality any more. GM is stupid, no wonder they went bankrupt.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:30 PM   #17
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GM builds good cars, that's not the problem! Problem is They don't build great cars or cars that set the market. They build cars to meet a certain market and when that model actually makes production it's target has moved on to the next generation.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:48 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by VetteUSA View Post
They managed to screw up the final design of the Volt (which I thought looked really good as a concept), so the production Volt has no personality any more. GM is stupid, no wonder they went bankrupt.
I don't know, I thought the early Volt concept was kind of fugly (in fact, it looked somewhat similar to that red monstrosity that Chris posted in his original comment). I'll grant you that the production Volt doesn't look nearly as sporty as the concept, but then again, it isn't a sports car. I think the styling is perfectly appropriate for what it is: an admittedly overpriced, mid-level eco sedan. Styling wise, it's worlds ahead of the bug-eyed Prius.

As for the "youth" concepts that this thread is about, I think that the red 130R is hideous and looks like a really bad kit car built on top of a 3rd-gen RX-7 (link here). The 140S on the other hand, I think GM hit it out of the park. I think it looks great for an entry-level sedan, and is leaps and bounds ahead of the Civic or Focus or Dart in terms of styling.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:33 PM   #19
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the other "Youth Concept" was the Tru 140S. IMO much better then the other. i actually wouldn't be embarrassed to drive this.

http://www.supercars.net/cars/5587.html



Hey there's those Camaro taillights again!
I think this car is kinda cool.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:28 PM   #20
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I like this one too. But would it sway young buyers from their Civic SI or Golf GTI? Chevy needs something in that market but they really need to stop half assing it!
Golf GTIs are pretty expensive and the Civic si guys are not happy with the latest si variant of the current Civic. The BRZ and FRS twins are $25,000-$30,000 cars, also they are slow......

They are touted for their handling and driving dynamics however they have yet to beat anything in a race. The no grip tires combined with 200BHP makes it slow at a race track though fun and involving to drive.

I would much rather have a 1LT V-6 Camaro for the same price as the FRS/BRZ.....
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:26 AM   #21
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I like this one too. But would it sway young buyers from their Civic SI or Golf GTI? Chevy needs something in that market but they really need to stop half assing it!


1st, I would buy either of those concepts (Tru40S, Code 13?) revealed during the 2012 NAIAS.

That being said, niether Ford, Chrysler or GM offer me a 2 door entry level / economy option. To get that, I have to go to Hyundai/Kia, Toyota/Scion, Honda, etc.

GM: Give me a 2 door Cruze option
Ford: Give me a 2 door Focus or Fiesta option
Chrysler: Give me a 2 door Dart option

Then, offer SS/SVT/SRT packages for them!

These lower cost cars appeal to younger buyers.

Sorry for the rant, but thanks for reading.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:35 AM   #22
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You think it's great?

It's the Chevrolet Code Red Concept. One of 2 "Youth Concepts" shown last year made to inspire "Youth appeal"

Code 130R "Code Red"

And Wow, look at the taillights! HAHAHAHAHA!
Wow, you gotta be kidding with that. It's got C7 written all over it .

As far as the FRS, when I saw the commerical for it, I though it was pretty cool. Then I saw one on the road and it killed it for me. The front end is nice but the rear sits too high. Lowering it wouldnt make a difference because of the upward "appearing" angle which it is facing. I like the rears of my cars to sit wide and low. This car doesn't fit the bill. Still an overall nice ride though if your on a budget and need something to get around.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkillz View Post
Golf GTIs are pretty expensive and the Civic si guys are not happy with the latest si variant of the current Civic. The BRZ and FRS twins are $25,000-$30,000 cars, also they are slow......

They are touted for their handling and driving dynamics however they have yet to beat anything in a race. The no grip tires combined with 200BHP makes it slow at a race track though fun and involving to drive.

I would much rather have a 1LT V-6 Camaro for the same price as the FRS/BRZ.....
Need to agree, the FRS/BRZ is a joke of a drive train, the only thing it has going for it is weight, so people are already putting LS engines in them.
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power corrupts, but absolute power is pretty neat
Old 01-09-2013, 10:53 AM   #24
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Need to agree, the FRS/BRZ is a joke of a drive train, the only thing it has going for it is weight, so people are already putting LS engines in them.
0-60 in 6.5 seconds isn't really that slow.

The Miata has 158hp and weighs 2,593 lbs and does an equal 0-60 in 6.5sec.

Miata is also the benchmark car for this segment, just as the Porsche 911 has been the benchmark for the sportscar segment (Corvette).

There are Miata spec racing series all over, and there is now a FR-S spec series in Canada and soon to be in the US.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteUSA View Post
GM is so damn stupid, so it's not surprising to me that they can't come up with good ideas or designs. Hell, look at their entire lineup. The cars that have any personality can be counted on one hand, all the rest are cookie cutter boringly designed vehicles.
Forced to defend a GM that I am PISSED OFF with right now, but seriously, can you think of any mainline Toyotas that have a personality? Most of the world of car buyers are not like us here on DC. Hell, even my wife barely gives a crap about her car ..."just something to get from "A" to "B" reliably."

This is not the issue Chris has raised, and it's a damn good one. Even the next Alpha chassis Camaro will still be priced out of reach of the yougest-just-getting-started demographic. I agree completely with Chris's styling comments about the two entry Chevy's. The True should be the FWD (if produced at all) and the Code should ride on the RWD platform. I think someone at GM thought the Tru could be an economical alternative to the BMW 1series; hence the more vertical coupe look. I think they overshot, making to too notchback. (SHOCK! I disagree with GM styling!!)

BTW, where the hell are they getting a RWD platform that small. Can the Alpha platform shrink that small and keep costs down? ...maybe its an "Alpha light"???

Lutz had a good idea with the Kappa, but the execution was mediocre at best = too big. too heavy ... I liked styling and so did my early 20's son.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #26
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The advertised performance of the Subaru/Scion is reasonable, but the two I have driven did not impress me. The acceleration was on par with a 2nd gen MX-5, despite a 60 horsepower advantage. Body roll was more than expected, despite a somewhat harsh ride. The interior is purposeful, which was pleasant for a change. Hard sell for someone who can buy a used C6 for the same money. (Yes, I realize new versus used isn't always a fair comparison)


Oh, and did I mention that one of them caught fire?

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Old 01-09-2013, 11:26 AM   #27
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I'd put a 140S in my garage as a daily.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #28
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I'd put a 140S in my garage as a daily.
I realize peformance isn't as exciting to today's youth as it has always been to me. Everything is about efficiency. The 140S is a great design. But I would never get excited about the Ecotec I4 with 150 hp. Give that car a V6 with 250-300 hp and you would have a car I could get excited about. Of course, that would mean a more expensive drive train, suspension and brakes, so the price would probably be well north of $30k. Oh, well.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:04 PM   #29
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I realize peformance isn't as exciting to today's youth as it has always been to me.
This is another misconception made up by today's auto manufactures and media. We aren't all tree-hugging, hypermiling, eco friendly people, and California is only 1 out of the 50 states in this country.

You guys are really getting stuck on horsepower. Weight is the key here, as is the same with the Corvette.

Performance is relative. Driving a slow car fast is sometimes just as fun as driving a fast car fast.

Anyone ever drive a go-kart?
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:09 PM   #30
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I realize peformance isn't as exciting to today's youth as it has always been to me. Everything is about efficiency. The 140S is a great design. But I would never get excited about the Ecotec I4 with 150 hp. Give that car a V6 with 250-300 hp and you would have a car I could get excited about. Of course, that would mean a more expensive drive train, suspension and brakes, so the price would probably be well north of $30k. Oh, well.
Exactly my point. The entry target wouldn't necessarily excite very many of us here. It need only show well against Miatas and the Scio-baru. A good performing I4 turbo is required for an entry level sports car. We're not talking about an entry level Camaro or an entry level Corvette.

Ideally, the GM car aimed at Chris's driveway will serve him well for a few years before he moves up to a Camaro, which would serve him well for a few years before he moves up to a Corvette - which would be an early release C8 due to the poor sales of the C7
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