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Old 01-13-2013, 06:17 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
Surely, you are not disputing the inherent superiority of a mid engine layout? That is just simple, elemental physics? You know, the immutable laws of the universe! Braking weight transfer, acceleration weight transfer, polar moment of inertia...
Nope, I agree with you. Just wanted to point out the Corvette is hanging with the best of them, plus it's at a price that is somewhat affordable.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:51 AM   #32
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Nope, I agree with you. Just wanted to point out the Corvette is hanging with the best of them, plus it's at a price that is somewhat affordable.
Ok and I can agree with you. The Italia is now, apparently, in the 300K range. I'm not sure when it got so high, but obviously the Corvette is much cheaper. The Corvette IS a lot of car for the money. The shame is that GM could possibly build an Italia beater for not much more than the current Corvette AND they would capture the admiration and adulation of car lovers all over the world!

For those of you that want a comparison between the Corvette and the Italia, here is a comparative road test by Road & Track between the ZR1, Italia and McLaren. The Italia won, but the Corvette did quite well.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
For those of you that want a comparison between the Corvette and the Italia, here is a comparative road test by Road & Track between the ZR1, Italia and McLaren. The Italia won, but the Corvette did quite well.
The Corvette won the quantitative performance tests, so that, along with a history of LeMans wins, sort of negates the notion the the mid-engine layout is better. It's different and seems more exotic. Just because the Europeans think it's better doesn't make it so. Personally, I hope the vette never goes mid-engine.

The Italia won the subjective or qualitative tests like "driving excitement," better seats, etc. In my book, if it costs 3x more it should be winning on the performance front in a big way, and it simply does not.

The C7 will greatly close the gap in the subjective category by offering the interior that the Europeans perceive as paramount for automotive excellence. And with a new platform that's more aerodynamic, lighter and more powerful...winning in any category it's only going to get tougher for the Euros.

The C7 ZR1, or whatever they ultimately call it, will spank the competition across the board for 1/3 the $$$.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:05 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
Hey idiot - CAMARO!!!

Now, according to you, my post is VALID.

I am really impressed when every once in a while one of you idiots actually manages to string a few words together instead of (excluding Longtimer who typically has something interesting and relevant to say)

No wonder GM has managed to sell all of you the same old shit for all of these years!
I'm the idiot? You can't do anything but spout drivel you've read elsewhere. Here is a fact for you. The Corvette is already a mid engine car. If you were to move the engine further aft, you would have to put it behind the cockpit and then weight distribution would suffer.
Second moment of inertia was mentioned, I would absolutely love to hear you explain how relevant that is verses weight distribution.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:18 PM   #35
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Just a thought.

Fiero, mid engine, out of production.
MR2, mid engine, out of production.

Vette in production for 60 years, front engine, rear wheel drive, and the new generation is the hottest Automotive topic

Toyota GT86(and derivatives) front engine, rear wheel drive, incredibly hot topic

Viper, front engine, rear wheel drive, incredibly hot topic
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:21 PM   #36
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The Corvette won the quantitative performance tests, so that, along with a history of LeMans wins, sort of negates the notion the the mid-engine layout is better. It's different and seems more exotic. Just because the Europeans think it's better doesn't make it so. Personally, I hope the vette never goes mid-engine.

The Italia won the subjective or qualitative tests like "driving excitement," better seats, etc. In my book, if it costs 3x more it should be winning on the performance front in a big way, and it simply does not.

The C7 will greatly close the gap in the subjective category by offering the interior that the Europeans perceive as paramount for automotive excellence. And with a new platform that's more aerodynamic, lighter and more powerful...winning in any category it's only going to get tougher for the Euros.

The C7 ZR1, or whatever they ultimately call it, will spank the competition across the board for 1/3 the $$$.
Apparently, you did not look at the LAP TIMES. Which in my book shows which car is best.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:43 PM   #37
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The article that was cited showed the Vette beating the Ferrari and McLaren in overall performance...that's what I was going on. If you've got an extra $200K to spend on whatever margin the Euros have at this point (which is clearly waning), I got a bridge you might be interested in.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:41 PM   #38
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Does anyone here realize how much it costs to maintain an exotic from Europe? Are you familiar with the reliability of those brands-especially the performance versions? I know a guy that owns a high performance European sports car garage; he's a mechanic and knows all about AMGs, Jags, M3s, Porsches. His advice to those that want a low maintenance, reliable high performance car? Buy a Corvette. He has endless stories about constant repairs, ultra expensive maintenance and problems with these so called "high end" cars. Even if you don't agree with him and long for something from the other side of the ocean-I say the Vette (all generations) look better than most of those other cars.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:59 AM   #39
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Does anyone here realize how much it costs to maintain an exotic from Europe? Are you familiar with the reliability of those brands-especially the performance versions? I know a guy that owns a high performance European sports car garage; he's a mechanic and knows all about AMGs, Jags, M3s, Porsches. His advice to those that want a low maintenance, reliable high performance car? Buy a Corvette. He has endless stories about constant repairs, ultra expensive maintenance and problems with these so called "high end" cars. Even if you don't agree with him and long for something from the other side of the ocean-I say the Vette (all generations) look better than most of those other cars.
CORRECT. We were shopping for something "girl sporty" for my fiance. Obviously, I said Corvette, but we looked at Jags, Austin Healys, BMWs, Alfa Romeo's, etc. Things like that. I looked at difficulty and price of repairs (even doing it myself, so no labor). Anything "Euro" would have cost us 2 to 3 times as much. And if there was something I COULDN'T do...well good luck finding a decent mechanic.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:40 AM   #40
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:19 PM   #41
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Second moment of inertia was mentioned, I would absolutely love to hear you explain how relevant that is verses weight distribution.
Big guess, I'm a EE, not a ME and I hated physics in college (but somehow got good grades)...

I would guess that has to do where the weight is at. The Corvette has almost a 50/50 balance, but that doesn't indicate where the weight is at. Taken to an extreme, you could have 1500 lbs up front and 1500 lbs in the rear. That car would probably perform different than a car that had 3000 lbs in the center, zero the ends. Both would be the same weight and balance, but the weight is distributed differently. I could completely wrong and I'm too lazy to google it.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:51 PM   #42
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Question

Just curious, PurpleLion, what do you currently drive??
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:09 AM   #43
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Big guess, I'm a EE, not a ME and I hated physics in college (but somehow got good grades)...

I would guess that has to do where the weight is at. The Corvette has almost a 50/50 balance, but that doesn't indicate where the weight is at. Taken to an extreme, you could have 1500 lbs up front and 1500 lbs in the rear. That car would probably perform different than a car that had 3000 lbs in the center, zero the ends. Both would be the same weight and balance, but the weight is distributed differently. I could completely wrong and I'm too lazy to google it.
Pretty close. But for handling sake what would be better? 1500 lbs 2 foot in front and behind the center or 2500 lbs 1 foot behind and 500 lbs 3 foot in front?
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:25 PM   #44
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Pretty close. But for handling sake what would be better? 1500 lbs 2 foot in front and behind the center or 2500 lbs 1 foot behind and 500 lbs 3 foot in front?
Yeah..don't have a clue. Same problem at work. People want a simple explanation and I try to give it to them. They immediately start asking more questions. Then I go into engineering mode and it instantly gets complicated and convoluted. Almost never a "yes" or "no" answer. There's a "yes" or "no" followed but a "but the problem is...". I imagine this is the same scenario.

I'd guess there's some sophisticated simulation tools to help answer these questions, but same thing probably happens again. The model needs a lot of fidelity to be correct. I think Pratt and Miller (the C6R guys) have a +1200 core computer that when it not analyzing the race car, its other job it analyzing ICBM's or something equally difficult.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:46 PM   #45
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maybe all the whining about what the vette is and isnt is part of what keeps buyers away. i was sick of TOO conservative lines. im glad they did something radical. if you want a ferrari, then buy one, but dont expect the vette to be an Italia...we dont have the pedigree even tho we get the awesome performance.

I do want both...but i can only afford the vette....God bless Chevrolet, for doing their best' and even trying to please as many of us as possible.

i think its pretty pompous and ungrateful to trash this awesome car. its okay not to love it or even like it,but to attack Chevy is just unneccessary.
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