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Old 01-23-2013, 11:17 AM   #76
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Now here's an Ann Coulter Opinion Piece I can agree with.


GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, THE MENTALLY ILL DO

January 16, 2013



Seung-Hui Cho, who committed the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, had been diagnosed with severe anxiety disorder as a child and placed under treatment.

But Virginia Tech was prohibited from being told about Cho's mental health problems because of federal privacy laws.

At college, Cho engaged in behavior even more bizarre than the average college student. He stalked three women and, at one point, went totally silent, refusing to speak even to his roommates. He was involuntarily committed to a mental institution for one night and then unaccountably unleashed on the public, whereupon he proceeded to engage in the deadliest mass shooting by an individual in U.S. history.

The 2011 Tucson, Ariz., shopping mall shooter, Jared Loughner, was so obviously disturbed that if he'd stayed in Pima Community College long enough to make the yearbook, he would have been named "Most Likely to Commit Mass Murder."

After Loughner got a tattoo, the artist, Carl Grace, remarked: "That's a weird dude. That's a Columbine candidate."

One of Loughner's teachers, Ben McGahee, filed numerous complaints against him, hoping to have him removed from class. "When I turned my back to write on the board," McGahee said, "I would always turn back quickly -- to see if he had a gun."

On her first day at school, student Lynda Sorensen emailed her friends about Loughner: "We do have one student in the class who was disruptive today, I'm not certain yet if he was on drugs (as one person surmised) or disturbed. He scares me a bit. The teacher tried to throw him out and he refused to go, so I talked to the teacher afterward. Hopefully he will be out of class very soon, and not come back with an automatic weapon."

The last of several emails Sorensen sent about Loughner said: "We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living cr** out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird."



That was the summer before Loughner killed six people at the Tucson shopping mall, including a federal judge and a 9 year-old girl, and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, among others.

Loughner also had run-ins with the law, including one charge for possessing drug paraphernalia -- a lethal combination with mental illness. He was eventually asked to leave college on mental health grounds, released on the public without warning.

Perhaps if Carl Grace, Ben McGahee or Lynda Sorensen worked in the mental health field, six people wouldn't have had to die that January morning in Tucson. But committing Loughner to a mental institution in Arizona would have required a court order stating that he was a danger to himself and others.

Innumerable studies have found a correlation between severe mental illness and violent behavior. Thirty-one to 61 percent of all homicides committed by disturbed individuals occur during their first psychotic episode -- which is why mass murderers often have no criminal record. There's no time to wait with the mentally ill.

James Holmes, the accused Aurora, Colo., shooter, was under psychiatric care at the University of Colorado long before he shot up a movie theater. According to news reports and court filings, Holmes told his psychiatrist, Dr. Lynne Fenton, that he fantasized about killing "a lot of people," but she refused law enforcement's offer to place Holmes under confinement for 72 hours.

However, Fenton did drop Holmes as a patient after he made threats against another school psychiatrist. And after Holmes made threats against a professor, he was asked to leave campus. But he wasn't committed. People who knew he was deeply troubled just pushed him onto society to cause havoc elsewhere.

Little is known so far about Adam Lanza, the alleged Newtown, Conn., elementary school shooter, but anyone who could shoot a terrified child and say to himself, "That was fun -- I think I'll do it 20 more times!" is not all there.

It has been reported that Lanza's mother, his first victim, was trying to have him involuntarily committed to a mental institution, triggering his rage. If true -- and the media seem remarkably uninterested in finding out if it is true -- Mrs. Lanza would have had to undergo a long and grueling process, unlikely to succeed.

As The New York Times' Joe Nocera recently wrote: "Connecticut's laws are so restrictive in terms of the proof required to get someone committed that Adam Lanza's mother would probably not have been able to get him help even if she had tried."

Taking guns away from single women who live alone and other law-abiding citizens without mental illnesses will do nothing about the Chos, Loughners, Holmeses or Lanzas. Such people have to be separated from civil society, for the public's sake as well as their own. But this is nearly impossible because the ACLU has decided that being psychotic is a civil right.

Consequently, whenever a psychopath with a million gigantic warning signs commits a shocking murder, the knee-jerk reaction is to place yet more controls on guns. By now, guns are the most heavily regulated product in America.

It hasn't worked.

Even if it could work -- and it can't -- there are still subway tracks, machetes, fists and bombs. The most deadly massacre at a school in U.S. history was at an elementary school in Michigan in 1927. It was committed with a bomb. By a mentally disturbed man.

How about trying something new for once?

COPYRIGHT 2013 ANN COULTER
DISTRIBUTED BY UNIVERSAL UCLICK


http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/20...html#read_more
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:50 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by MR BRNS C6 View Post
Now here's an Ann Coulter Opinion Piece I can agree with.


GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, THE MENTALLY ILL DO

January 16, 2013



Seung-Hui Cho, who committed the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, had been diagnosed with severe anxiety disorder as a child and placed under treatment.

But Virginia Tech was prohibited from being told about Cho's mental health problems because of federal privacy laws.

At college, Cho engaged in behavior even more bizarre than the average college student. He stalked three women and, at one point, went totally silent, refusing to speak even to his roommates. He was involuntarily committed to a mental institution for one night and then unaccountably unleashed on the public, whereupon he proceeded to engage in the deadliest mass shooting by an individual in U.S. history.

The 2011 Tucson, Ariz., shopping mall shooter, Jared Loughner, was so obviously disturbed that if he'd stayed in Pima Community College long enough to make the yearbook, he would have been named "Most Likely to Commit Mass Murder."

After Loughner got a tattoo, the artist, Carl Grace, remarked: "That's a weird dude. That's a Columbine candidate."

One of Loughner's teachers, Ben McGahee, filed numerous complaints against him, hoping to have him removed from class. "When I turned my back to write on the board," McGahee said, "I would always turn back quickly -- to see if he had a gun."

On her first day at school, student Lynda Sorensen emailed her friends about Loughner: "We do have one student in the class who was disruptive today, I'm not certain yet if he was on drugs (as one person surmised) or disturbed. He scares me a bit. The teacher tried to throw him out and he refused to go, so I talked to the teacher afterward. Hopefully he will be out of class very soon, and not come back with an automatic weapon."

The last of several emails Sorensen sent about Loughner said: "We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living cr** out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird."



That was the summer before Loughner killed six people at the Tucson shopping mall, including a federal judge and a 9 year-old girl, and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, among others.

Loughner also had run-ins with the law, including one charge for possessing drug paraphernalia -- a lethal combination with mental illness. He was eventually asked to leave college on mental health grounds, released on the public without warning.

Perhaps if Carl Grace, Ben McGahee or Lynda Sorensen worked in the mental health field, six people wouldn't have had to die that January morning in Tucson. But committing Loughner to a mental institution in Arizona would have required a court order stating that he was a danger to himself and others.

Innumerable studies have found a correlation between severe mental illness and violent behavior. Thirty-one to 61 percent of all homicides committed by disturbed individuals occur during their first psychotic episode -- which is why mass murderers often have no criminal record. There's no time to wait with the mentally ill.

James Holmes, the accused Aurora, Colo., shooter, was under psychiatric care at the University of Colorado long before he shot up a movie theater. According to news reports and court filings, Holmes told his psychiatrist, Dr. Lynne Fenton, that he fantasized about killing "a lot of people," but she refused law enforcement's offer to place Holmes under confinement for 72 hours.

However, Fenton did drop Holmes as a patient after he made threats against another school psychiatrist. And after Holmes made threats against a professor, he was asked to leave campus. But he wasn't committed. People who knew he was deeply troubled just pushed him onto society to cause havoc elsewhere.

Little is known so far about Adam Lanza, the alleged Newtown, Conn., elementary school shooter, but anyone who could shoot a terrified child and say to himself, "That was fun -- I think I'll do it 20 more times!" is not all there.

It has been reported that Lanza's mother, his first victim, was trying to have him involuntarily committed to a mental institution, triggering his rage. If true -- and the media seem remarkably uninterested in finding out if it is true -- Mrs. Lanza would have had to undergo a long and grueling process, unlikely to succeed.

As The New York Times' Joe Nocera recently wrote: "Connecticut's laws are so restrictive in terms of the proof required to get someone committed that Adam Lanza's mother would probably not have been able to get him help even if she had tried."

Taking guns away from single women who live alone and other law-abiding citizens without mental illnesses will do nothing about the Chos, Loughners, Holmeses or Lanzas. Such people have to be separated from civil society, for the public's sake as well as their own. But this is nearly impossible because the ACLU has decided that being psychotic is a civil right.

Consequently, whenever a psychopath with a million gigantic warning signs commits a shocking murder, the knee-jerk reaction is to place yet more controls on guns. By now, guns are the most heavily regulated product in America.

It hasn't worked.

Even if it could work -- and it can't -- there are still subway tracks, machetes, fists and bombs. The most deadly massacre at a school in U.S. history was at an elementary school in Michigan in 1927. It was committed with a bomb. By a mentally disturbed man.

How about trying something new for once?

COPYRIGHT 2013 ANN COULTER
DISTRIBUTED BY UNIVERSAL UCLICK


http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/20...html#read_more
Written by Ann Coulter??? The left will never accept it!

Besides....It's not politically correct to pick on the glue sniffers and mouth breathers.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:53 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
I think Machine's article is pretty good. The guy is absolutely correct that there are no registered Democrats in Texas, and I assume the same for Virginia. Basically, the onus is on the original author to give some evidence that these people are "registered Democrats", but he gives none. The fact is, it's pretty hard to know who is registered in a political party. About the only way to know is if they state that they are. The author gave no quotes or evidence that any of these people claimed to be registered Democrats. At least the second guy gave some logical rationale for why these claims could not all be true.
"Pretty Good"? So now we're grading these articles?

They are both poor examples of true journalism. (Not that there are that many examples of real journalism out there today.) One may be better written than the other, but shit is still shit.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:27 PM   #79
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"Pretty Good"? So now we're grading these articles?

They are both poor examples of true journalism. (Not that there are that many examples of real journalism out there today.) One may be better written than the other, but shit is still shit.
I guess this shit is popular as all the flys are buzzing around it....couldn't resist
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:42 PM   #80
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Coulter is right, of course. How about this? Currently all healthcare professionals are required to report suspected child abuse to the authorities. Failure to do so is a crime, and they are protected by the law if the process proves there was no abuse. Maybe healthcare professionals need to be required to report patients that they know have mental health probems and they suspect could commit violent acts. Then a combination agency made up of law enforcement and mental health professionals could evaluate the individual and make recommendations to the court system about possible involuntary treatments, etc.

Until we figure out how to improve the handling of these people through the mental health system, there will be no reduction of these horrific incidents.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:23 PM   #81
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Coulter is right, of course. How about this? Currently all healthcare professionals are required to report suspected child abuse to the authorities. Failure to do so is a crime, and they are protected by the law if the process proves there was no abuse. Maybe healthcare professionals need to be required to report patients that they know have mental health probems and they suspect could commit violent acts. Then a combination agency made up of law enforcement and mental health professionals could evaluate the individual and make recommendations to the court system about possible involuntary treatments, etc.

Until we figure out how to improve the handling of these people through the mental health system, there will be no reduction of these horrific incidents.
Although I agree with you, the legal problem with this comparison is that in the event of child abuse, a crime has already been committed. With mental issues, on the other hand, it becomes a witch hunt. Crazies have rights too.

What we need is these again.

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Old 01-23-2013, 02:46 PM   #82
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So on this we can certainly agree...the mentaly ill are the real common thread in these school shootings.

Want to guess who shut down this nations mental hospitals????

Ill give you a hint....his name begins with Ron and ends with Reagan.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:01 PM   #83
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I agree that the mental health side is a core part of the issue. But lets be practical. Who gets to draw the line on the crazy scale which determines "Can own guns" vs "Can't own guns" .... or whatever the restrictions are.

I can see it now. We agree to tackle the issue solely on the mental health side and then nothing will come of it because there will be endless bitching about what constitutes "crazy." And again....nothing well get done.

Probably have more success attempting to wipe your ass with a hula hoop and stay clean.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:03 PM   #84
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So on this we can certainly agree...the mentaly ill are the real common thread in these school shootings.

Want to guess who shut down this nations mental hospitals????

Ill give you a hint....his name begins with Ron and ends with Reagan.
At least you didn't blame Bush!

I don't know the historical demise of asylums, but I do believe keeping people out of public who are a threat to others due to a lack of their own mental faculty is a good thing for public safety.

Of course, most liberals fall into this category too.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:05 PM   #85
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I agree that the mental health side is a core part of the issue. But lets be practical. Who gets to draw the line on the crazy scale which determines "Can own guns" vs "Can't own guns" .... or whatever the restrictions are.

I can see it now. We agree to tackle the issue solely on the mental health side and then nothing will come of it because there will be endless bitching about what constitutes "crazy." And again....nothing well get done.


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Probably have more success attempting to wipe your ass with a hula hoop and stay clean.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:17 PM   #86
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So on this we can certainly agree...the mentaly ill are the real common thread in these school shootings.

Want to guess who shut down this nations mental hospitals????

Ill give you a hint....his name begins with Ron and ends with Reagan.




I'm of a different opinion..... Sorry, it's a long one.


Friday, September 14, 2012


COMMON KNOWLEDGE: Reagan and the Homeless





“They make their own choice for staying out there.”
-Ronald Reagan


You hear it again and again, from the most surprising of sources. Ronald Reagan created massive homelessness when he became president, and one of the main reasons was ordering mental hospitals and asylums shut down, forcing people out on the streets. These lunatics, schizophrenics, and mentally disturbed people had no ability to fend for themselves and ended up slumped on sidewalks and under buildings, muttering to themselves.

600,000 homeless walked America, according to one study, and that number was trumpeted again and again by the media and the Democrats in congress, claiming Reagan was heartless and cruel. Cuts in the federal government were putting them on the streets, and cities were helpless to deal with the problems because of draconian, drastic cuts in the federal budget by the Reagan administration.

These days you don't hear much about the homeless. They all went away during the Clinton administration, apparently. When Democrats are president suddenly the homeless aren't much of an issue, but when Republicans are, suddenly its a crisis. Obama is a Democrat, so news about the homeless is virtually unseen but if Romney wins, you will see a sudden epidemic again.

There are people living on the streets of every nation on earth, including America. There are too many people living on the streets, including families and people who would work hard and succeed if only they could find a job. But was Reagan so evil about the homeless? Did he cause the problem? And what about those mental hospitals?

For some reason the "Reagan closed the asylums and filled our streets with loonies" myth is one of the strongest and oldest in our society. And yes, its a myth.

The truth is, many mentally ill people were removed from hospitals and asylums and set out on their own. That happened because of several court cases, the most critical one being a Supreme Court case in 1975 called O'Connor v. Donaldson. The court ruled that someone may not be incarcerated in a mental institution against their will unless they are a danger to themselves or society. To do so would be a violation of their basic civil rights to liberty and as a result many people who had been thrown into these institutions were set free.

In fact the ball started rolling in the Kennedy administration, with the final bill he signed into law the Community Mental Health Act, which commissioned a study on how the mentally ill and insane were being treated and whether the current system was good or bad.

Previously it had been not uncommon in cities for cops to arrest people who were mentally handicapped and stick them into an institution even if they were functional. Sure, maybe they talked to themselves and seemed crazy, but they could function in the world, even hold down a job. But if they were causing any problems, or deemed a "vagrant" (someone with no visible means of support or fixed address), they could be thrown in jail or an asylum.



Ronald Reagan was Governor of California from 1967 to 1975, and ran for president in 1976. He was defeated in the primaries and spent 4 years working on his campaign, his speeches, and behind the scenes with the Republican Party. He was elected president in 1980, five years after the court decision to put mentally ill people on the streets. President Reagan had absolutely nothing to do with that decision or the release of these people.

Let me repeat that: it was the Supreme Court case of O'Connor v. Donaldson in 1975 that put the mentally handicapped on the streets, that opened asylums and put relatively harmless and functional insane people into the general population, not Ronald Reagan, and not when he was president. That is absolute indisputable fact.

Ronald Reagan did sign the Lanterman–Petris–Short Act in California as governor, which took effect in 1972, effectively doing what the O'Connor v. Donaldson ruling did nationwide. The bill had bipartisan support and was widely lauded by the left as a civil rights masterpiece. The ACLU argued for the end of forced institutionalization of harmless insane people, not Ronald Reagan.

There were more homeless on the streets under Reagan, though, that much is true. Part of it was the supreme court's decision - many of these people were no harm to themselves or others, but weren't really capable of taking care of themselves adequately and couldn't hold down jobs on their own. So they ended up on their own, on the streets. They're still out there after 12 years of Democrat presidencies, by the way.

Part of the reason for the increase is what we're experiencing right now. The Carter economy was so horrific that after several years of double digit inflation and unemployment, a lot of people lost their homes, lost their jobs, lost their savings. Some of those people ended up on the streets, living in cars, boxes, and shelters. Whole families were thrust into the streets because of the recession. But Ronald Reagan worked to pull the United States out of the recession, and Carter put us into it. Blame President Carter, not President Reagan for homelessness of this sort.

There is another cause which can be partly put at Ronald Reagan's feet though. By the end of Reagan's term in office, federal funding for state and local assistance programs had been cut by 60%.
Reagan eliminated general revenue sharing to cities, slashed funding for public service jobs and job training, almost dismantled federally funded legal services for the poor, cut the anti-poverty Community Development Block Grant program and reduced funds for public transit. The only “urban” program that survived the cuts was federal aid for highways – which primarily benefited suburbs, not cities.

These cutbacks had a disastrous effect on cities with high levels of poverty and limited property tax bases, many of which depended on federal aid. In 1980 federal dollars accounted for 22 percent of big city budgets. By the end of Reagan’s second term, federal aid was only 6 percent.
That NHI article is trying to portray this as some great evil but think about this a bit. Not only does the US Constitution not permit the federal government to tax citizens and hand it out to other citizens in terms of aid, but the problem here is that the states weren't picking up the slack. Instead of handling this themselves, states were busy spending the increased revenues in the 80s Reagan boom economy on other programs, raising public employee union benefits and wages, and ignoring the needs of their community.

Why didn't the states cover these areas? They had the tax base, but it would require them to shift their spending to areas that the people in charge weren't as fond of. It would mean fewer raises for legislators, fewer helicopters for the governor, less city beautification projects, fewer basketball tournaments, and so on. Those diversity consultants won't hire themselves you know.

Yes, spending on social areas were "cut" under Reagan (as in, they didn't get the increases that congress wanted, mostly). The states had to pick up the ball more under Reagan. They didn't, and as a result some problems resulted.

There never were as many homeless as the advocates claimed. That 600,000 number came from a study done by an advocacy organization which later admitted that they guessed at most of the data because it was virtually impossible to count their numbers. Many homeless are addicts, drunk, or insane, and almost all are very suspicious or even hostile toward authorities. They hide from, lie to, and avoid people, even those claiming to help. So they just estimated, guessing what as there, and they estimated very, very high.

The data was trash, the methodology was junk and yet to this day you still see that number being thrown around like it was from the voice of God on high. To give a feel for how bad these homeless counts are, I offer you this piece from a few years back on this blog, during the Bush administration:
Recently, a study was released that claimed 1.5 million American children experienced homelessness between 2005 and 2006.
...
1,500,000 is one out of every fifty children in the United States, a stunningly high number, paticularly in a period of very strong economic growth, sometimes record low unemployment, and low inflation. What on earth was going on?

Well, aside from a Republican President, the study turns out to, again, be less than reliable. Joshua Miller reports at Fox News:
The report — released Tuesday by the National Center on Family Homelessness and reported by numerous news organizations, including FOXNews.com — estimated that one out of every 50 children in America experienced "homelessness" during that two-year span.

But rather than using the definition of homelessness established by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Massachusetts-based organization used a standard adopted by the Department of Education that includes children who are "doubled up," or children who share housing with other persons due to economic hardship or similar reason.

The difference? About 1,170,000 children.
So if you lived with someone else, this report said you had no home. By that definition (not owning your own house) I guess every kid in America is homeless, unless they are Richie Rich.In other words, they were wrong by a factor of five because they used utterly worthless definitions and categories to announce something ridiculous. Why? Because it worked last time, people cling to that bogus study like Roseanne Barr does a box of Bon Bons.

The fact is, homeless people are out there, and some of them are in a bad place through no fault of their own. Not everyone is a lunatic, drunk, drug addict, or troublemaker. When your house is foreclosed on you and you're tossed out on the street you end up homeless. There are real people who genuinely have done all the right things and tried hard who have ended up living on the streets, temporarily.

Churches, homeless shelters, food banks, religious organizations, and various private sources help out people in this situation, as they should. Not everyone takes advantage of that, and the full quote by Ronald Reagan at the top is this:
They make their own choice for staying out there. There are shelters in virtually every city and shelters here in Washington, these people still prefer to live out there on the grates or the lawns rather than staying in one of these shelters.
And that's true; if you refuse to take advantage of the many places that care for and help homeless people out, that's your problem, not society's. And ultimately, the burden to get back on your feet is your own burden. Yes, we all should help those in need in our family and neighborhood. Yes, we have a duty and an opportunity to assist those in need who we can. But that assistance has to be in the form of helping them get on their own feet and no longer need us.

This is part of the Common Knowledge series: Things we know that ain't so.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:33 PM   #87
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Things we know that ain't so.

Good read.
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I'm taking care of my procrastination issues, just you wait and see.
Old 01-24-2013, 12:16 AM   #88
Junkman2008
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Well damn, this thread moved along before I could get back to it!
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"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."
Old 01-24-2013, 08:36 AM   #89
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Excellent article, Mr. Burns!
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:30 AM   #90
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I hear crickets.
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I'm taking care of my procrastination issues, just you wait and see.
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