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Old 01-25-2013, 12:42 PM   #1
dreamcars99
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5 reasons Chevy could have worried less about Vettes not appealing to younger people

1. A favorite pasttime of mine is to toss my oldest son into a car and go cruising around some weekend evening. We drive by the bars, and just the drunks freak out at the cars, we drive down the main streets in our relatively small (<250k) town and let passers by honk and follow and whatever else.

I doubt we drove the Z06 around on such a cruise twice without generating substantial reactions. I bet hundreds of young people asked us to do a burnout or yelled "wicked Vette, man!" or "rev it, let us hear it"

2. The last time I drove my Z06 before I sold it, I parked it downtown in front of my condo. Not one, but two cars full of young people (30 or under) stopped to ask if it was a Z06 and if they could hear it, while I unloaded the hatch.

3. The neighborhood in which my house is located is full of younger couples. 50 would be the oldest person I've seen walking around here. The Z06 was as popular as the lp-560 with the males here. If I'd been driving it loudly and came back into the neighborhood, I'd invariably get thumbs up. When I sold it 3 guys asked me why, several thought it was my coolest car.

4. One evening in 2009, at a pub, some girl of about 25 walked up to me and said "hey you look pretty nice and my friends got drunk and left me can you give me a ride home", when we walked out to the car she said, quote "oh my god is this thing yours!!??". She was referring to a C6 Vert.

5. My buddy, and fellow C6 owner, and recent traveler to Detroit to see the C7 with me, managed a big resort by a lake not too far from here. When I drove my 'Vettes out to visit him I would inevitably be asked by heaps of teenage and 20-year-old people for a ride or if they could sit in them, and so forth.

6. Ten times at least I've walked out of a restaurant and found some guy in his teens or twenties gawking at the Z06 and babbling on about it. I've gotten V signs from a mob of kids on crotch rockets at least ten times. The big Vette got more attention from kids at the Autocrosses I attended than the 911s or Caymans that were there. Etc etc etc. The Z06 got, very literally, 10x the love from young people (or old people) that my GT-R recieves.

It was not a question of young people not liking the Corvette, it was a question of "uppity" people, and Jap-car-fans. I will explain as best I can.

I have a friend who has probably done more for the car community in this town than anybody. He runs an aftermarket car business, and has literally put on the biggest car shows this area has ever seen out of pocket. His shop is like a gathering place for car junkies of all types. And he loves Japanese (and some European) cars and truly hates American cars. He truly hates Corvettes. He mocked my Corvettes, angrily sometimes, basically every time I ever saw him. He will never buy one, its like a lifestyle to him, his contempt for American cars. He once told me that a Subaru STi was more bad-*** than any Corvette, period.

But at his shop there were three kinds of people, there were the jap-o-car guys, the kind of guys who would maybe dig my Ferrari or Lambo, would worship my GT-R, worship my STi, and hate all American cars. There were car guys, who just love cool cars. And there were muscle car guys who favor American cars and probably wouldn't love my GT-R. The latter two, of any age, loved my Z06. The first group hated Corvettes, but here is the thing... :

except for my friend, the shop owner, and Vette hater, none of those jap-o-philes could afford a new Vette, or even often a used Vette. They aren't prospective customers, as they are mostly very young. And thats my opinion of the Jap-o-philes, they (in my experience, as accurate or off base as it is) they are young and somewhat angry at life, and you know what? They are going to sit around and talk about how the LT1 makes less hp/liter than the S2k, and just keep hating what they hate, loving what they love. They love modified Jap cars, and sort of European cars. The C7 won't win them, and they couldn't afford one if it did. GM trying to market to them is an excercise in futility.

The second group of people I'd like to comment on, in this extremely long winded post, is a group of "rich kids" I met after I bought my first exotic Italian car. For the most part they all work for their fathers, save 1 who is an entrepreneur like myself, and they all have a very fortunate lifestyle, and (save that one) basically none of them has worked for it.

They drive European cars... M3s, Porsches, Audis, BMWs, and... Escalades. Its the Escalade that they will buy among American cars. Why? Probably because famous people love them.

I show up in a Z06 to a cocktail party at one of their houses, a nice $650k pad that was a wedding present to the kid who owned it, and one of them started making apologies to people that I don't know for my less than acceptable car, saying "he also has a Ferrari". I casually brought up in conversation that the Ferrari was not remotely a performance match for the big Vette, which brought a stunned silence to the group of cars guys sitting there.

I hope you all get teh picture of the kind of crowd I'm talking about. Now here's my question to GM: if THIS is the crowd you are going after, do you really think that radical angular styling and over-wrought, try-hard, ricey looking rear end is the styling that is going to sway them? Name ONE car they would lust after, if you can picture the people I'm trying to describe, that is angular and jagged and so bizzarely styled (as the rear of the C7 is)? The European cars they seek out are smooth and elegant and very little like the C7.

And you know what else? The C7 still doesn't have a DCT, the C7 still has pushrods (and god bless them and I fully know the small block is the worlds best sports car engine, but they don't), and it still has leaf springs (EVEN IF they were actually better, they are still a broad source of mockery). Did GM think that ricey styling would win over this crowd? I suspect they thought wrong. I'll report back after attending another cocktail party.

'Pologies for the extremely extended post, had some thoughts to air out.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:02 PM   #2
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I forgot to mention, in that group of what some might call spoiled rich kids, the entrepreneur (aside from me) in the gang has had SEVEN new Corvettes. SEVEN. He is 37.

I think that the C7's styling is off the mark for their goal. If they were targeting young people that can afford the car those people don't drive GT-Rs or Rice-Rockets, they drive European cars. And the C7 doesn't look European, it looks gauche.

Americans, entrepreneurs, car lovers? We already loved the Vette. Jap-o-philes who hate everything that isn't won't love the C7 enough, and can't afford one. Euro-car lovers, who view themselves as very upper class, won't agree with the angular, over-wrought, excessive styling. Or the absolutely disastrous rear end.

I suppose I could join that "other" Corvette forum, but they have taken to locking every thread that says even one negative word about the c7. I suppose GM is ponying up a couple add bucks to keep negative comments under wraps?
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:07 PM   #3
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Thats why DC is the best place. You can speak your mind here. Love it or hate it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:35 PM   #4
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what you said.

If GM wants a sporty car to appeal to the younger buyer, it better start at well under $30k. I have had 3 Corvettes and many other sports cars over the years, but none were purchased new. Justifying $24,000 for my last C5 only a few years after getting married and having a child was tough enough.

It's simple economics, and no styling exercise or marketing campaign can overcome it. Attracting a younger generation to Corvette will only help used car sales 5 years down the road.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:00 PM   #5
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VERY interesting thoughts. Thanks for posting.
I believe you may be right with much of what you write.

I still like it though.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamcars99 View Post
And the C7 doesn't look European, it looks gauche.
I've been looking for a word that describes my feelings toward the C7 and you have hit it on the mark. To me, the C7 looks like it's trying to hard to be something it is not...it's not being true to itself. It's trying to hard to be Japanese or Euro. Welburn has even said so.

Gauche is exactly what I've been thinking.


Gauche:
a: lacking social experience or grace; also: not tactful : crude <it would be gauche to mention the subject>

b: crudely made or done <a gauche turn of phrase>

Instead of creating something stellar, Gm has spent their money copying everyone else in an effort to look like them. I always tell my kids to be themselves, be a stand out, make others respect you for who you are. I just wish GM would do the same.

All these other cars that GM is trying to emulate are emulated for a reason. GM has missed that point.
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I'm taking care of my procrastination issues, just you wait and see.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blckslvr79 View Post
I've been looking for a word that describes my feelings toward the C7 and you have hit it on the mark. To me, the C7 looks like it's trying to hard to be something it is not...it's not being true to itself. It's trying to hard to be Japanese or Euro. Welburn has even said so.

Gauche is exactly what I've been thinking.


Gauche:
a: lacking social experience or grace; also: not tactful : crude <it would be gauche to mention the subject>

b: crudely made or done <a gauche turn of phrase>

Instead of creating something stellar, Gm has spent their money copying everyone else in an effort to look like them. I always tell my kids to be themselves, be a stand out, make others respect you for who you are. I just wish GM would do the same.

All these other cars that GM is trying to emulate are emulated for a reason. GM has missed that point.
And in a nutshell, thats what bothers me about the C7 design. It seems like GM missed the point that the Corvette was already itself, a standout, and the world was starting to respect it for waht it was.

Make it better, so much of what they have done is great. Weight distribution, focus on feel, that e-diff will be a very nice thing, lower the Cg, stiffen the frame, all good.

But a Vette should be American, it should be a car FOR those entrepreneurs that already loved it. It should flip a middle finger at Porsches and Ferraris and it should never worry about losing to them in one of those lap-time tests. And it should be loud, and awesome.

The C7, to me, feels like a car designed by guys who didn't really love Corvettes, who didn't really understand them. Who don't look at the world and think "up yours, I'm American and I do ABC and I saved some money and god bless Corvettes".

It feels like a car apologizing for its Americana. In a minute, maybe I'll walk out to the garage and take a picture of the side vent of my GT-R. The C7's is a dead copy.

WHY? Corvettes are beautiful, they are supposed to be beautiful. GT-Rs are not beautiful, and they were never meant to be beautiful. The solitary beauty of the GT-R is its purpose, and in that it is striking. But it is not beautiful. Why copy style from the GT-R?

Corvettes should be beautiful.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:34 PM   #8
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Corvettes have been displaying cove vents in some fashion since 1958 (of course those were decoration).
I think Corvette got there first. If anyone is copying anything it's Nissan and the GT-R.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:39 PM   #9
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Thats why DC is the best place. You can speak your mind here. Love it or hate it.
Hey you know, as I see that Viper in you pic? I always thought Vipers were 9.5/10 on the cool scale, with respect to looks. The new one is still 9.5/10 on the cool scale, but its also 9.8 on the gorgeous scale. It was the best looking car, of any type, and any brand, including the Ferrari F12, at the Detroit show IMO. It took my breath away. Gotta give it to SRT on that one. 5x better in real life than in pictures.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:42 PM   #10
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n
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Corvettes have been displaying cove vents in some fashion since 1958 (of course those were decoration).
I think Corvette got there first. If anyone is copying anything it's Nissan and the GT-R.
100% acknowledge that point. But all I could think of when I looked at the C7s cove was GT-R. Take a look... It bugged me. So did the chrome front grill bar... And the excessive creasing, ... and I consider the rear the equivalent of pulling the pin on your own hand grenade and diving into the fetal position with it in your hands.... And I sure wish they'd offer the option of body color paint on their various inlets and outlets... (which I am glad are there)

Aside from those things, the C7 could have been epic.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:15 PM   #11
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I think GM is clueless about a lot of things. How to get a younger crowd to buy a Corvette is high up on that list of GM cluelessness.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:30 AM   #12
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Was talking to a buddy of mine last night at the bar (we're both 40). So I asked him if he knew that the new Corvette was shown recently? He said: "Yeah, it has really weird tail-lights"

I bust a gut laughing.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:39 PM   #13
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I'm happy they came out with a new gen vette and would love to have one. It's nice that gm is making the car with track people in mind, so less mods have to be made.

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blckslvr79 View Post
I've been looking for a word that describes my feelings toward the C7 and you have hit it on the mark. To me, the C7 looks like it's trying to hard to be something it is not...it's not being true to itself. It's trying to hard to be Japanese or Euro. Welburn has even said so.

Gauche is exactly what I've been thinking.


Gauche:
a: lacking social experience or grace; also: not tactful : crude <it would be gauche to mention the subject>

b: crudely made or done <a gauche turn of phrase>

Instead of creating something stellar, Gm has spent their money copying everyone else in an effort to look like them. I always tell my kids to be themselves, be a stand out, make others respect you for who you are. I just wish GM would do the same.

All these other cars that GM is trying to emulate are emulated for a reason. GM has missed that point.
Sorry to drag up an old post, I do apologize if doing so violates forum rules, and... I hope this forum hasn't migrated to banning anybody who says anything negative about the C7, but...

The Corvette has very very long been beautiful. Since long before my life began.

The C2 was (and, frankly, is) fairly radical, something nobody had made, something new. Tell me, dear reader of this humbel post, that when you see a C2 you don't do a double take, .... you do. If you're reading a Vette forum, you do.

The C3 is one of histories great beauties. I've come to understand that it was controversial in its day, but it was stunning. All those curves, that long hood, iconic. Tell me, dear reader of this humble post, that when you see a C3 you don't gaze that extra second. You do, if you're reading a Vette forum, you do.

The C4, so I have read, is considered the ugly kid of the 'Vette family, but tell me when (I was 8) you first saw it you didn't think it looked just absolutely state of the art. Purposeful and new. I do agree that it isn't as beautiful as its predecessors. And I realize that the e-dash was controversial in its day, but in 1983/4? WHAT had a dash like that?

I do remember, very clearly, exactly where, I saw my first C5. The C4 by then had gotten quite long in the tooth. The world was ready for a new Vette. I almost crapped myself. Rolling, on the street, that car was flat out gorgeous in its day. Still is. Not sure why, but the RED and YELLOW colors on that car still pop from a mile away. If I notice a really stand-outish red, it so often turns out to be a C5.

I do remember, even more clearly, the first time I saw a C6. I was shopping for my first new vehicle. My father made 325k in the 18 years I was growing up, for a family of 5, a fact I learned from reading his soc sec statements just a year ago or so. And I was not, at that time, shopping for a sports car, so I bought a Hummer. But I remember it, it was a yellow vert, and I remember feeling absolute shock thinking I could afford it. I'd never dreamed I could afford a 'Vette.

And I remember, absolutely clearly, as it was just a few months ago, the first time I saw a C7. My life was quite a bit changed at this point, I'd one year paid 10x my fathers income for the 18 years I was his dependent in taxes in one year, I'd bought HIS last few cars for him, he bought me my first. A 19xx Oldsmobile. 2 years younger than me. For 800 bucks. His generosity greatly exceeds my own, he didn't have 800 bucks.

And I hated it. Just hated it. I was left in a state of shock that the 'Vette guys would go and do that to the 'Vette. The 'Vette has been gorgeous forever. For longer than my lifetime. So they riced it the frick out.

I don't know if I can carry through with my order, which I made before 1/13. I don't think I can. Its just too ridiculous.

THEY DIDN'T NEED TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE WAY VETTES LOOKED, and this design feels like exactly that. Like an apology for the way 'vettes look. VETTES LOOKED GREAT. I got weak in the knees every single time I saw my Z06. Every. Single. Time.

And I hate the signs of beancounting on the C7. The way they didn't paint any of the lower bumper body color, just screw it, have this 1" wide slip of body color on the back. Why NOT have a curve? I guess to save 20 bucks of paint?

I hate the taillights, I do not agree that they look like the camaro. If we had 5th gen Camaro lights that would be far better. They are gimmicky, over-wrought, contrived, and lame, and surrounded by bean-counted, pointless, black-painted, mascara looking surrounds.

I cannot make peace with the statement that "every line matters". There are flipping dozens of lines that don't matter. EVERY line around the taillights doesn't matter. They didn't need to be a messed up polygonal shape, that was a choice for the sake of a choice. They didn't need the black outline and running mascara, that is bean counting and choice for the sake of choice. The all black lower rear section, bean counted, and non-sensible. Making every vent inlet/outlet contrasted black? Pure rice. RICE. ON A CORVETTE. Corvettes don't need rice. They need nothing, they have long been gorgeous. And the vanes in said blacked-out, riced-out, contrasted vents? BS. McLarens P1 got by without vanes, no way, no how, I buy the sales pitch that they miraculously add to aero.

Oh, and along that line, the C7 doesn't even have a smooth underbody. I have photos. Tell me, if they paid so much attention to aero that they have specifically angled vanes on the C7, why doesn't the C6R, why doesn't the P1, why doesn't most anybody else? Good lord.

/rant, sorry about that. But I am truly just distraught about the C7s styling. And FWIW, NOBODY in my life that knows I love cars loves it. A couple like it, nobody loves it. NOT ONE.

And also FWIW, I WAS a buyer of NEW C6s, I did not just join a Vette forum 2 months ago to post glory about the C7.

I kind of hate it. I just hate it, when I look at it. Its horrid. Aztecish. I don't know if I can follow through on buying it.

That noted, on price alone, I've little doubt it will be a sales success.

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Old 05-19-2013, 06:10 AM   #15
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Very interesting perspective.

I'm trying to be as positive as possible - to the extent that I'll reserve my final opinion after I've been in a C7. In any case, it will be very interesting to see the sales numbers when it lands on the dealers' lots.
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