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Old 02-01-2013, 12:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Bill Davies View Post
So if premiums continue to go up at the rates projected before Obamacare, then the family plan will be $20,000...DAMN THAT OBAMACARE!!!!!!

And sure. You can use history to project it because it doesn't support or refute my statements either way. My point wasn't what the average premiums will or won't be in 2016.

My point was that the article does NOT state that when 2016 rolls around and ddregehr finds a plan for less than $20,000 a year he will have to pay a penalty because his plan costs less than the IRS estimates and/or assumes the average Bronze plan will cost ($20,000).

...Because that is what he stated in his first post. I've quoted it for you below...(and I accidently thanked him for it instead of hitting the dang quote button just a moment ago.)
Yeah, but unlike you and congress, I read the bill.
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #32
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Yeah, but unlike you and congress, I read the bill.
Yeah, but my dad could beat up your dad.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:47 PM   #33
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Yeah, but my dad could beat up your dad.
With what I have read, "qualifying plan" is very subjective. The IRS isn't run by a bunch of dummies, if they feel it will be $20k then that will probably be the bottom end of the "qualifying plans". If you don't have a qualifying plan, you will be subject to a penalty.
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
Old 02-01-2013, 12:56 PM   #34
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With what I have read, "qualifying plan" is very subjective. The IRS isn't run by a bunch of dummies, if they feel it will be $20k then that will probably be the bottom end of the "qualifying plans". If you don't have a qualifying plan, you will be subject to a penalty.
And again, that may very well be true. However, the $20,000 estimate/assumption that was commented on in the article above won't have anything to do with if his plan qualifies and/or costs more or less than $20,000.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:32 AM   #35
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So who is suppose to pay for this shit??

US Social Security Admin: More Than Half Of Wage Earners Make $30,000 or Less!

http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2011

So 75 million Americans are suppose to get the country out of debt and pay for health care for the 225+ million at the same time?

I dont see how this logic can work?
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:02 AM   #36
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Yeah, but unlike you and congress, I read the bill.
You've got to be a Republican because you can read! Democrat's don't want teachers to be graded based on performance and they get the crappy system we have, so many can't and won't read. Too lazy to learn that skill. So they jump to make assumptions based on dreams (I have a dream) and get it confused with reality. They go on to live their dream on my dollar forgetting that someone has to pay for their dreams.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:24 AM   #37
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Ooops! The price of "Affordable" health care seems to be skyrocketing out of control.

ObamaCare Exchange Subsidy Cost Hiked By $233 Billion

The Congressional Budget Office on Tuesday quietly raised the 10-year cost of ObamaCare's insurance subsidies offered via the health law's exchanges by $233 billion, according to a Congressional Budget Office review of its latest spending forecast.
The CBO's new baseline estimate shows that ObamaCare subsidies offered through the insurance exchanges — which are supposed to be up and running by next January — will total more than $1 trillion through 2022, up from $814 billion over those same years in its budget forecast made a year ago. That's an increase of nearly 29%.
The CBO upped the 10-year subsidy cost by $32 billion since just last August.
In part, this jump is because more people will get insurance via the exchanges than it had forecast. Where the CBO had seen 22 million enrolled in an exchange in 2022, it now figures 25 million will be.
That explains only part of the cost hike. The rest is largely the result of the CBO's sharp increase in what it expects the average subsidy will be.

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http://news.investors.com/020513-643...cbo-score.aspx
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The Obamacare Health Exchanges Are Now Open In All 57 States -
Old 02-06-2013, 08:04 AM   #38
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Obamacare may be the first major government program to be rescinded. The cost is going to prove so much higher than even the CBO has projected that there simply will be no way to pay for it. Workers will be screaming because they can't afford their insurance and their hours will be cut by employers to escape having to buy it for them. I predict chaos when this bill is fully implemented next year.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:23 AM   #39
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Obamacare may be the first major government program to be rescinded. The cost is going to prove so much higher than even the CBO has projected that there simply will be no way to pay for it. Workers will be screaming because they can't afford their insurance and their hours will be cut by employers to escape having to buy it for them. I predict chaos when this bill is fully implemented next year.
This was all proven before it became law and all the POS electected officials and the media pushed it thru anyways and now you expect it to be thrown out? It will never happen as long as Obama is POTUS and after that the law will have so many tenicals the brain dead government will not know how to get rid of it or the US will no longer be the US by this time
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:04 AM   #40
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Here is a good article from Forbes.

President Obama will deliver a second inaugural address later this month. He’ll no doubt reflect on what he’s done during his first four years in office — and on his signature healthcare law in particular.

Let’s reflect with him. During his first campaign for the presidency in 2008, the president promised that his health reform plan would “bring down premiums by $2,500 for the typical family” by the end of his first term.

Well, that first term is just about up. And health insurance isn’t any cheaper. In fact, it’s more expensive. Premiums have increased by an average of $3,065. And they’re about to go up even more, as Obamacare takes effect during the president’s second term.

At the end of 2012, Mark Bertolini, the CEO of Aetna, the third-largest health insurer in the country, warned that many consumers would face “premium rate shock” with the advent of Obamacare’s major insurance regulations in 2014. He predicted that unsubsidized premiums would rise 20 to 50 percent, on average.

For some people, premiums would double. “We’re going to see some markets go up as much as 100 percent,” Bertolini told Bloomberg News.

Aetna isn’t the only company forecasting higher health-insurance premiums. In California, Blue Shield has asked regulators to approve premium increases of up to 20 percent. Obamacare’s new regulations were a factor in the request. A spokesperson for the company said the new law “will bring a lot of volatility” into the market.

A shock? Not to those who’ve been paying attention. When Obamacare was making its way through Congress, the Congressional Budget Office warned that premiums in the individual market would increase by 10-13 percent.

Even the law’s designers admit that it will raise premiums. Massachusetts Institute of Technology Economics Professor Jonathan Gruber, one of Obamacare’s chief architects, estimated that premiums in Wisconsin would rise by about 30 percent by 2016 following implementation of the law. Most of the Badger State’s individual insurance market will see an even larger increase, averaging about 41 percent.

Obamacare’s defenders typically respond that the law’s subsidies will decrease what people actually pay out-of-pocket for insurance.

But that’s not always the case. Many individuals will still pay more even after they receive the generous subsidies to which the law entitles them. According to a report conducted by Gruber, 59 percent of the individual market will end up paying more after taking the subsidies into account. The average increase? Nearly a third.

These premium hikes will hit young people hardest. As The New York Times reported in October, insurers and health policy wonks are warning that the young will “face higher premiums because of a provision that limits how much rates can vary based on a person’s age.”

Typically, insurers charge older individuals more because they have higher average health costs. But because Obamacare includes a “community rating” provision that restricts how much insurers can charge people of different ages, the young will end up paying more — essentially subsidizing the coverage of older individuals who require more expensive care.

These won’t be small increases. Health insurance expert Bob Laszewski has said that young adults should expect their premiums to double thanks to Obamacare’s rules.

The law will make insurance more expensive for everyone else by saddling it with expensive mandates. Obamacare tasks states with figuring out which health benefits are “essential” and thus mandatory for insurers.

The result? Furious lobbying by every healthcare group, from acupuncturists to chiropractors to fertility specialists, all of whom want to make sure that coverage of their services is required for all policies issued in the state. The more coverage mandates there are, the higher premiums rise. Indeed, benefit mandates can add as much as 50 percent to the cost of insurance.

As President Obama’s second term unfolds, few — if any — families will see the $2,500 in health insurance savings he promised four years ago. The White House is now clinging to the hope that premiums won’t rise quite as fast as they have in the past.

In other words, health insurance costs are going up. And for that, you can thank Obamacare.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypip...s-3000-higher/
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddregehr View Post
Here is a good article from Forbes.

President Obama will deliver a second inaugural address later this month. He’ll no doubt reflect on what he’s done during his first four years in office — and on his signature healthcare law in particular.

Let’s reflect with him. During his first campaign for the presidency in 2008, the president promised that his health reform plan would “bring down premiums by $2,500 for the typical family” by the end of his first term.

Well, that first term is just about up. And health insurance isn’t any cheaper. In fact, it’s more expensive. Premiums have increased by an average of $3,065. And they’re about to go up even more, as Obamacare takes effect during the president’s second term.

At the end of 2012, Mark Bertolini, the CEO of Aetna, the third-largest health insurer in the country, warned that many consumers would face “premium rate shock” with the advent of Obamacare’s major insurance regulations in 2014. He predicted that unsubsidized premiums would rise 20 to 50 percent, on average.

For some people, premiums would double. “We’re going to see some markets go up as much as 100 percent,” Bertolini told Bloomberg News.

Aetna isn’t the only company forecasting higher health-insurance premiums. In California, Blue Shield has asked regulators to approve premium increases of up to 20 percent. Obamacare’s new regulations were a factor in the request. A spokesperson for the company said the new law “will bring a lot of volatility” into the market.

A shock? Not to those who’ve been paying attention. When Obamacare was making its way through Congress, the Congressional Budget Office warned that premiums in the individual market would increase by 10-13 percent.

Even the law’s designers admit that it will raise premiums. Massachusetts Institute of Technology Economics Professor Jonathan Gruber, one of Obamacare’s chief architects, estimated that premiums in Wisconsin would rise by about 30 percent by 2016 following implementation of the law. Most of the Badger State’s individual insurance market will see an even larger increase, averaging about 41 percent.

Obamacare’s defenders typically respond that the law’s subsidies will decrease what people actually pay out-of-pocket for insurance.

But that’s not always the case. Many individuals will still pay more even after they receive the generous subsidies to which the law entitles them. According to a report conducted by Gruber, 59 percent of the individual market will end up paying more after taking the subsidies into account. The average increase? Nearly a third.

These premium hikes will hit young people hardest. As The New York Times reported in October, insurers and health policy wonks are warning that the young will “face higher premiums because of a provision that limits how much rates can vary based on a person’s age.”

Typically, insurers charge older individuals more because they have higher average health costs. But because Obamacare includes a “community rating” provision that restricts how much insurers can charge people of different ages, the young will end up paying more — essentially subsidizing the coverage of older individuals who require more expensive care.

These won’t be small increases. Health insurance expert Bob Laszewski has said that young adults should expect their premiums to double thanks to Obamacare’s rules.

The law will make insurance more expensive for everyone else by saddling it with expensive mandates. Obamacare tasks states with figuring out which health benefits are “essential” and thus mandatory for insurers.

The result? Furious lobbying by every healthcare group, from acupuncturists to chiropractors to fertility specialists, all of whom want to make sure that coverage of their services is required for all policies issued in the state. The more coverage mandates there are, the higher premiums rise. Indeed, benefit mandates can add as much as 50 percent to the cost of insurance.

As President Obama’s second term unfolds, few — if any — families will see the $2,500 in health insurance savings he promised four years ago. The White House is now clinging to the hope that premiums won’t rise quite as fast as they have in the past.

In other words, health insurance costs are going up. And for that, you can thank Obamacare.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypip...s-3000-higher/
Leave it to progressives to create a clusterfuck...
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Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business, frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise. They are the residue of centralized bureaucracy, of government by a self-anointed elite. - Ronald Reagan
Old 02-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #42
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Leave it to progressives to create a clusterfuck...
Speaking of clusterfuck's.
Check this out -



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The Obamacare Health Exchanges Are Now Open In All 57 States -
Old 02-06-2013, 06:22 PM   #43
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Yall ain't seen shit yet.. wait until they grant amnesty and all those folks jump on Roberts/ObamaCare..

Talk about a clusterfuck..
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
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