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Old 02-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XQIZT View Post
No one is saying that you opinion is invalid. In fact, I agree with you, in part because of some of the facts and figures you have posted in other threads.

HOWEVER, THIS article does nothing to support your opinion, with the current set of known facts.

I'll be VERY interested to see the follow up stories to this incident.
As I said, I am of the opinion that the best way to stop a man with a gun, is a man with a gun. This article just backs that up as the known facts clearly state that an armed guard disarmed a shooter.

I don't really know what point your trying to make, except maybe you think that unarmed guards are a good way to protect schools and I don't agree with that line of thinking.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Vette_Newb View Post
I did not write the article. I posted it with the headlines used on the news site.

Armed guard disarmed teen in Atlanta school shooting, says police chief

It's still there if you would like to verify:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5...-says.html.csp

Reference: Page 2, post 26






Show me:
1: Where I called anyone a liar
2: Where my argument changed AT ALL.

My first stance was right, still is. If you got a real problem, then let's discuss it. Until then stick to the facts and the topic please.
If you revisit the post I quoted you clearly stated and I quote:
"The only thing needed to be known is that an armed guard stopped an active shooter."

and that isn't the case. You were trumpeting how great the armed guard was. When faced with Roadsters post killing your argument you flipped to "I just want armed guards in schools if they can protect my money they can protect my kids"

Similar thoughts voiced differently. I misspoke earlier and was wrong in calling you a liar, I was interrupted at work and finished in a hurry. (sorry I have a job)
When faced with a much different, and case damning, set of facts you resulted to personal attacks and name calling. That just kills your credibility.

I believe there is a need for armed guards in schools I actually don't have a problem with it. The reason it and guns in general get met with so much fire is people, much like yourself, can't have an open and honest discussion seeing other views OPENMINDEDLY and actually seeing someone elses point. You don't have to agree with it but you won't even SEE it and that makes people tune you out. As you yell louder and louder they turn and walk away more.

JMO good luck in your venture I can only deal with these threads every few days. I'll come back later and check on you guys
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vette_Newb View Post
As I said, I am of the opinion that the best way to stop a man with a gun, is a man with a gun. This article just backs that up as the known facts clearly state that an armed guard disarmed a shooter.

I don't really know what point your trying to make, except maybe you think that unarmed guards are a good way to protect schools and I don't agree with that line of thinking.
The ONLY point is that if he didn't use the gun, then its irrelevant whether or not he was armed. Even a simple fact like what Arkay brings up, did the shooter SEE the gun? THAT would make me believe more that an ARMED guard is better. But we don't have that info....yet. This guard was OFF-DUTY. Was he in plain clothes? These are the details that will either bolster your case or destroy it. I'm just not willing to jump off this cliff blindly regarding this story to the extent that you are.

What if he was armed AND wearing a butt plug? Which is relevant? Cuz then, by your logic, an armed butt plugged guard stopped a shooter...better get some lube there, Newb.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vette_Newb View Post
1: ..

Raid rolls up in here making accusations and spewing bullshit then disappears faster than you and xzit when slapped with facts.
:
I didn't run off anywhere, I work for a living and can't sit in front of my computer just waiting for your response. Sorry you're just not that important to me.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:48 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidmagic View Post
If you revisit the post I quoted you clearly stated and I quote:
"The only thing needed to be known is that an armed guard stopped an active shooter."

and that isn't the case. You were trumpeting how great the armed guard was. When faced with Roadsters post killing your argument you flipped to "I just want armed guards in schools if they can protect my money they can protect my kids"
Roadster posted THE SAME LINK I DID and it says THE SAME THING MINE SAYS. I have requested clarification from him as to what the "inside info" was and have not recieved a response. So, the OP is still the FACTS AS WE KNOW THEM. I have yet to be faced with an alternative narrative of the story. So there is no way my argument was damaged, there is no way I "flipped" especially since the first line of my post indicated where I was coming from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raidmagic View Post
Similar thoughts voiced differently. I misspoke earlier and was wrong in calling you a liar, I was interrupted at work and finished in a hurry. (sorry I have a job)
When faced with a much different, and case damning, set of facts you resulted to personal attacks and name calling. That just kills your credibility.
I don't care about my credibility. Especially from someone who just a few posts back made false accusations about me. I was never faced with anything damning against my OP. Not by roadster, not by junk, not by xzit and not by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raidmagic View Post
I believe there is a need for armed guards in schools I actually don't have a problem with it. The reason it and guns in general get met with so much fire is people, much like yourself, can't have an open and honest discussion seeing other views OPENMINDEDLY and actually seeing someone elses point. You don't have to agree with it but you won't even SEE it and that makes people tune you out. As you yell louder and louder they turn and walk away more.
Well if my sticking to known facts and not playing "what if" or not being openminded when it comes to my rights turns you off, I am actually happy about it because my target audience are the people who prefer fact over fiction or bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raidmagic View Post
JMO good luck in your venture I can only deal with these threads every few days. I'll come back later and check on you guys
I would suggest reading and comprehending what has/hasn't been said/done before running in here making accusations and spewing bullshit.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:50 PM   #111
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I didn't run off anywhere, I work for a living and can't sit in front of my computer just waiting for your response. Sorry you're just not that important to me.
Well I was important enough for you to come make false accusations about.. and I work for a living as well.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:51 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XQIZT View Post
The ONLY point is that if he didn't use the gun, then its irrelevant whether or not he was armed. Even a simple fact like what Arkay brings up, did the shooter SEE the gun? THAT would make me believe more that an ARMED guard is better. But we don't have that info....yet. This guard was OFF-DUTY. Was he in plain clothes? These are the details that will either bolster your case or destroy it. I'm just not willing to jump off this cliff blindly regarding this story to the extent that you are.

What if he was armed AND wearing a butt plug? Which is relevant? Cuz then, by your logic, an armed butt plugged guard stopped a shooter...better get some lube there, Newb.
I'm going to have to let you play "what if" in your mind. I just really don't like the game and there are too many possible combinations.
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
Old 02-01-2013, 02:54 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Vette_Newb View Post
I know, that in your mind we had an argument. But the simple truth is, we didn't.

We had a discussion where you and xzit were hung up on whether the guard used the gun, whether the guard being armed really helped, and some other incredibly stupid remarks that could possibly enter the records books at a later date.

And I was discussing the fact that armed guards protecting my children makes more sense that limitnig my mags to 7 rounds or limiting what kind of "looking" weapon I can own.

No real argument..
....protect this children is a must by "trained" guardians....

....I understand your point, but even if they allowed 1000 round magazines don't you think it would be hap hazard to
have something in large volume available to create a horrid
scene.....
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:57 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by 92Roadster View Post
....protect this children is a must by "trained" guardians....

....I understand your point, but even if they allowed 1000 round magazines don't you think it would be hap hazard to
have something in large volume available to create a horrid
scene.....
I think it would be haphazard to infringe upon my rights, in the name of fighting crime. It's been proven in every country and state that has tough gun control that crime goes up.

So, wouldn't' you agree that gun control in practice, actually has the opposite affect of what was intended?
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
Old 02-01-2013, 03:04 PM   #115
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....For Vette_Newb:....sorry bro, it got pushed back to page 18...

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Old 02-01-2013, 03:05 PM   #116
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No source?
[B]
Sorry I was trying to get it...

Source: http://readersupportednews.org/news-...ain-8775-in-us

By the way these numbers match up pretty well with the Guardian numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vette_Newb View Post
UPDATE Correction: The data on the UK is from 2003 and it is not new as prviously written however, newer data from 2009 shows gun violence in the UK has increased by 89 percent in the past decade, making the 35 percent figure insufficient.
So your stories are based on 2003 numbers and only give percentages to base numbers they don't give...useless info..

Here are the latest crime stats for England and wales...please note total number of murders 549 down from 607 the year before.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-england-wales


Crime statistics for England & Wales: what's happening to each offence?What's happening to crime across England and Wales? See what the latest figures say
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The latest crime stats are out for England and Wales Photograph: Alamy
Crimes recorded by the police in England and Wales fell by 8.4% between the years ending September 2011 and September 2012, according to the latest crime statistics.

8.9m crimes were reported in 2011/12, down from 9.6m the previous year, and 29% lower than ten years ago, according to figures published by the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

*Figures are for Oct-Sep, all others are financial years Total numbers of crimes recorded for six of the eight main categories of offence fell compared to the previous year, with vandalism showing a fall of 14%.

Bicycle theft and 'other household theft' - that excluding burglary and vehicle-related theft - were the only two categories showing increases, and neither of these was found to be statistically significant at the 5% level.

A concurrent but separate ONS publication shows that the rate of police recorded crime has fallen more quickly than the rate of reported crime found in the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW).

Alan Travis has more here, where he writes:

[The figures show] a 41% drop in crime between 2002-03 and 2011-12 for police recorded crime figures, compared with a 26% drop in the crime survey results over the same period.

Statisticians say one explanation for the difference may have been pressure on the police to downgrade incidents in the face of a targets culture. The study says the police figures may overstate the actual long-term fall in crime, especially since 2006-07.

There were 1.8m reported incidents of vandalism between July 2011 and June 2012, down from 2.1m the previous year. Reports of burglaries, violence and vehicle-related theft also fell by over 10% each.

*Figures are for Oct-Sep, all others are financial years Below is a selection of other interesting statistics from the latest figures:

Homicides vs attempted murders
549 homicides (includes murder, manslaughter and infanticide) were reported in the year ending September 2012, a considerable drop on the previous year's total of 607. Homicides are now down to around half of the figure for 2001/2.

Attempted murders also fell, but by a smaller proportion, dropping by 2.7% in comparison to a fall of 9.6% in homicides.

Crime rates
*Figures are for Oct-Sep, all others are financial years Reports of crime against an individual in 2011/12 occurred at a rate of 78 per 1,000 people, down from 87 in 2010/11. Household crimes were reported at a rate of 226 per 1,000 households, down from 247.

Reported vs recorded
It's important to bear in mind that today's release focuses on police recorded crimes. These are provided to the Home Office by police authorities and forces, not all of whom collect data with the same precision according to a 2007 audit. This is problematic because it means that a higher number in a given area may indicate an improvement in reporting by police rather than a rise in criminality.

*Figures are for Oct-Sep, all others are financial years What's more, crimes recorded by police are unlikely to represent the total number of crimes that take place. To understand this better, it's useful to also consider the CSEW which asks people face-to-face about their experiences of, attitudes about and perceptions of a range of crimes.

Though police-recorded crimes are down 8.4%, the number of crimes reported in the survey has fallen by 7.1%. 8.9 million crimes were reported in the survey in the year ending September 2012, while the police recorded 3.8 million crimes in this period.

The gap between police-recorded and survey-reported crime has always been significant, but the distance between the two has widened. In 2004/05, there was an effective recording rate of 52.8%, while in the latest statistical release, this figure has dropped to 42.4%.

Perception of crime
This data was part of a previous release, published in July 2012 Another of the more interesting figures is that of the perception of crime. The CSEW asks people whether they think crime is getting worse where they live and nationally. So, people think crime is getting worse - but not where they live. It's the gap between what we know is going on and what we think is going on.

We've extracted the key figures for you and made them available to download via the link below. What can you do with them?
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Welcome to the Machine....
Old 02-01-2013, 03:06 PM   #117
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....For Vette_Newb:....sorry bro, it got pushed back to page 18...

You "discredited my article"... with a user comment on the article?



Now I truly have seen it all..
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
Old 02-01-2013, 03:08 PM   #118
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You "discredited my article"... with a user comment on the article?



Now I truly have seen it all..
....my post said "maybe inside info".....
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:18 PM   #119
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So your stories are based on 2003 numbers and only give percentages to base numbers they don't give...useless info..
Here ya go..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c82_1357146088

http://www.sodahead.com/living/uk-vs...rime%20vs%20us

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/...ies-and-brits/
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
Old 02-01-2013, 03:19 PM   #120
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....my post said "maybe inside info".....
Man, you sure made some of these guys look dumb..
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
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