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Old 02-04-2013, 03:56 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
If you think there is no difference in a moderate Republican and a Democrat, you aren't paying very close attention. The Tea Party loves that RINO epithet and uses it in their circle jerks where they all convince themselves that anyone to the left of Atilla the Hun is really a Democrat.
There really IS no difference. The moderate democrat is left of center (because the democrat party has been eaten by progressives) and the moderate republican doesn't mind being pulled that way by the dems.
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But moderate Republicans simply understand that this is not a monolithic population. There are many groups with many ideas about how the country should be run. As much as I might agree with Tea party economic principles, I understand that 25% of the voters don't get to decide how the country is run. That means I understand that Republicans must participate in the "C" word - compromise.
Right now the country IS being run by 25% of the population (progressive democrats) because the moderate republicans are willing to let the dems (progressives) run roughshod all over them...and they (democrats) won't compromise 1%.
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
If your position is "our way or the highway - no compromise", you will get the highway, because you don't have the numbers to get your way.
How's that worked out for the democrats (progressives) lately? Pretty good, I'd say. The progressives have completely stymied the republican party because of thier (democrats)refusal to compromise and then they've used that tenent to blame the republicans for everything that's wrong with society...yet you think the only way to win an election is roll over and expose your soft underbelly to them while they screw you and your children from behind while staring you in the face.
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It's a hard reality, and by all appearances it's a reality the Tea Party refuses to recognize.
The only reality is that by complying with another party that refuses to comprise is capitulation. The Tea Party is a lot more moderate and willing to compromise than you assume.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:41 PM   #17
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Arkay99,

You pretty much posted my exact thoughts as I read this thread.

The no compromise position has done well for dems. Thats pretty much all ya need to know. The current GOP leadership is spineless and needs to go.

For 20 years the progressives on both sides of the aisle have been running this country into the ground incrementally and it needs to stop.

The Teaparty is our only chance.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:10 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
OK, maybe fanatical is the wrong word. Let's say unaccepting of moderates in the Republican Party. The problem for the Tea party is that they don't have the numbers to win national elections. On one hand, they need moderates (just as moderates need them), and on the other hand, they refuse to do business with them. That's what I'm talking about.
I disagree. The moderates gave us
George Bush, who was almost as bad as Obama
when it comes to spending. The moderates
gave us John McCain, who helped
give Obama his first term. The moderates gave
us Mitt Romney, who gave Obama a 2nd term.
Karl Rove and his band of Loons are the
"Fanatics" who are destroying the republican
party.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:34 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
I disagree. The moderates gave us
George Bush, who was almost as bad as Obama
when it comes to spending. The moderates
gave us John McCain, who helped
give Obama his first term. The moderates gave
us Mitt Romney, who gave Obama a 2nd term.
Karl Rove and his band of Loons are the
"Fanatics" who are destroying the republican
party.
OK. Tell me exactly how you intend to implement your Tea Party agenda with 25% of the voters. That appears to be your plan since you refuse to work with any other groups.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:12 AM   #20
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OK. Tell me exactly how you intend to implement your Tea Party agenda with 25% of the voters. That appears to be your plan since you refuse to work with any other groups.
It all comes down to whether or not you believe that compromising conservative principles and
allowing Karl Rove and his ilk to select
a continuing flock of RiNO candidates provide the
best future for the party.
What good is a republican party that ignores
the most basic principles of conservatism?

I would rather see the republican party fractured
than to continue down the path of RINOville.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:15 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
It all comes down to whether or not you believe that compromising conservative principles and
allowing Karl Rove and his ilk to select
a continuing flock of RiNO candidates provide the
best future for the party.
What good is a republican party that ignores
the most basic principles of conservatism?

I would rather see the republican party fractured
than to continue down the path of RINOville.


I really don't see ANY difference between the current Republican party and the Democrats except they don't publically say they support spending, they just do in the back ground and say they had to

BTW I'm talking results here
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:49 AM   #22
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BTW I'm talking results here
No you're not! You can't get results with 25% of the voters! The only plan you guys have is to sit on the sidelines, whine about RINO's and hand the country to the Democrats who are currently run by the most left-wing people to run a party in 75 years. If "not compromising" is the only thing that matters to you, and you're willing to sell your country down the river in order to spite the Republican Party, then shame on all of you. Be part of the solution, don't just snipe because you don't get your way 100% of the time. Sheesh!
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:57 AM   #23
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I would rather see the republican party fractured
than to continue down the path of RINOville.


The GOP has lost every battle against Obama. Not one single win. The GOP has lost 2 elections to this guy as well.

The only bright spot? The Tea Party wins of 2010. The moderates refuse to move right and quit trying to be democrats.. screw em. I can't remember who the last Great Moderate was.. can you?
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:02 AM   #24
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The GOP has lost every battle against Obama. Not one single win. The GOP has lost 2 elections to this guy as well.

The only bright spot? The Tea Party wins of 2010. The moderates refuse to move right and quit trying to be democrats.. screw em. I can't remember who the last Great Moderate was.. can you?
Hmmm. I seem to remember Obama caving to the Pubs the last time doing away with the Bush tax cuts was discussed in 2010. And from your post, I can see that the epitaph on the tomb of the Tea Party will be "But we had a great 2010!"
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:12 AM   #25
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No you're not! You can't get results with 25% of the voters! The only plan you guys have is to sit on the sidelines, whine about RINO's and hand the country to the Democrats who are currently run by the most left-wing people to run a party in 75 years. If "not compromising" is the only thing that matters to you, and you're willing to sell your country down the river in order to spite the Republican Party, then shame on all of you. Be part of the solution, don't just snipe because you don't get your way 100% of the time. Sheesh!
This country has been going down the shitter since Clinton. Tell where the republicans are acting republican like again? They no longer are able to put forth a good argument in public against Obama. They are all scared they will loose there government job.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
No you're not!
Don't get upset. I don't think I've ever seen you start a post with an exclamation point!
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You can't get results with 25% of the voters!
The democrats are! 25% of the democrats are pulling the rest of the voters to their side by not compromising.
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The only plan you guys have is to sit on the sidelines, whine about RINO's and hand the country to the Democrats who are currently run by the most left-wing people to run a party in 75 years.
Nobody's sitting on the sidelines. A lot of Tea Party went out and voted for Romney...probably most of them...and held their nose when doing it. Yet Rove wants to push them out of the tent because their principles differ. I bet there were a lot more 'moderate republicans' that stayed home instead of voting than Tea Party.
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If "not compromising" is the only thing that matters to you, and you're willing to sell your country down the river in order to spite the Republican Party, then shame on all of you. Be part of the solution, don't just snipe because you don't get your way 100% of the time. Sheesh!
Believe me, 'not compromising' is NOT the only thing that matters to me. Getting all the uncompromising radical progressives out of the public system would be my primary concern.

There's a difference between compromise and capitulation. When the dems/progs refuse to compromise and the
pubs to do all the compromising, there IS no republican party. It seems like you believe the progressive rant. If you want to go ahead and compromise the country down the river to the progressives, you're free to do so. The constitution allows it.

JMHO.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:30 AM   #27
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This country has been going down the shitter since Clinton. Tell where the republicans are acting republican like again? They no longer are able to put forth a good argument in public against Obama. They are all scared they will loose there government job.
I don't disagree with any of that. But my solution is to work to make it better. The only way change can actually be accomplished is to get a coalition of over 50% of the voters. The Tea Party cannot do that on it's own. I also think you guys don't give enough credit to the change that has already taken place in Republican representation in congress. And the Tea Party gets most of the credit for that. It's foolish to sit here and whine about how moderate the Republicans were under Bush. It's not the same group any more! It already is a different Republican Party. But the gains have been mostly in the South and mostly from lower population states. There are enough new Conservatives to have a positive effect on legislation, but not enough to rule the day completely. And it is unlikely Tea party types will ever muster more than that 25% I've been talking about. So give credit for positive change and work for more of it. But being obstinate and basically telling all moderate Republicans to leave the party they created is not being constructive. What you want can only happen over time with one small victory after another. You all want it all now, and it just can't happen. I want what you want. I just think I'm a little more realistic about my expectations.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:40 AM   #28
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Don't get upset. I don't think I've ever seen you start a post with an exclamation point!
You are so full of shit!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding. I always wanted to start a post like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKay99 View Post
There's a difference between compromise and capitulation. When the dems/progs refuse to compromise and the
pubs to do all the compromising, there IS no republican party. It seems like you believe the progressive rant. If you want to go ahead and compromise the country down the river to the progressives, you're free to do so. The constitution allows it.

JMHO.
I know it feels that way right now. But even though the right doesn't want to admit it, Obama DID compromise on a few issues very important to the left in his first term, and he caught hell for it from the far left. Now that he has nothing to lose, I don't look for any compromise from him. Our job right now is to find a way to sway 5% of middle voters by 2014 and 2016. I know Tea Partiers hate middle of the road people, but you can't win elections without them. And the more uncompromising you are, the less chance you have of wooing them. Bush was at heart a right winger. But his job as the head of the Republican party was to hold the coalition together that got him and many other Republicans elected. That's why he did so many things that are anathema to the Tea Party. The Tea Party wants to enact their agenda by fiat without going through that messy political process. But it can't be done, and in today's political landscape, that means appealing to the middle or completely giving up. I don't see why you guys can't grasp that reality. I know it is bad tasting, but our eyes must be on the future. That means one small victory at a time.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:51 AM   #29
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When Obama was first elected, he spoke about a single payer health care system....we ended up with what the republicans offered durring clintons first term...I would say that is a win for the pubs. When Obama first got into office he wanted to end the Bush tax cuts for everyone making over $250k. the Bush tax cuts were kept in place through his first term, and were just recently allowed to expire for those making over $400k. I would say that is a pub win. When Obama first got into office he wanted to close Gitmo. It is still open. I would say that is a pub victory. When Obama first got into office he wanted to pull out of both Iraq and Afgahnastan immeidiatly. We stayed in iraq until the time Bush had negociated, and we are still in afghanastan. I would say that is a pub victory. In fact I cannot think of one single instance where Obama got his way 100%.

Maybe the problem with you tea Party guys is you just wish Obama wasn't in the White House. Well while we are all there with you on that, wishing isn't gonna make it so. The pubs lost the white house...time to get over it and do what we can do best....negiociate to get the best we can get. It has worked so far but if you think that holding your breath until Obama resigns is the best we can hope for...well your blue dead body will simply be pushed aside while the business of running this country goes forward. Sorry.

You think Obama care sucks....imagine if we had gotten single payer. Well that is what we would have gotten if all the pubs did was hold their breath and hope Obama goes away.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:58 AM   #30
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You are so full of shit!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding. I always wanted to start a post like that.

I know, so have I.
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I know it feels that way right now. But even though the right doesn't want to admit it, Obama DID compromise on a few issues very important to the left in his first term, and he caught hell for it from the far left. Now that he has nothing to lose, I don't look for any compromise from him. Our job right now is to find a way to sway 5% of middle voters by 2014 and 2016. I know Tea Partiers hate middle of the road people, but you can't win elections without them. And the more uncompromising you are, the less chance you have of wooing them. Bush was at heart a right winger. But his job as the head of the Republican party was to hold the coalition together that got him and many other Republicans elected. That's why he did so many things that are anathema to the Tea Party. The Tea Party wants to enact their agenda by fiat without going through that messy political process. But it can't be done, and in today's political landscape, that means appealing to the middle or completely giving up. I don't see why you guys can't grasp that reality. I know it is bad tasting, but our eyes must be on the future. That means one small victory at a time.
Now we are back to the general voting public. The 5% you are speaking about won't be swayed to vote for the party that does the most compromising. They will vote based on who they think makes them feel best about their choice, and what who they vote for will be able to get for them. The dems have been able to successfully make the pubs look like old misers while portraying themselves as benevolent nurturers with the help of the media and accomplishing what the sentence before this one has stated. Compromising the country down the river will do little to change the mindset the dems have created. They will simply ratchet up the rhetoric around election time. Again, no matter how much the pubs compromise, those 5% are not going to vote for a republican candidate.
The only way the republicans will win another national election is for the republicans to put forth a candidate that has star power that transcends the rhetoric that will be brought to bear against them by the dems and the media. I don't think there is anyone...for now...maybe Rubio...but he's Tea Party!
It all has to play out poorly for the dems and the media for a long time for the attitude to change. There has been a shift and the media which controls the political bias and mood is in control now.

Remember what Ben Franklin answered someone who asked him, "Sir, what have you given us?" when he exited from the Constitutional meeting...he replied "A republic...if you can keep it."
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