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Old 02-05-2013, 12:10 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardcoreABN View Post
Lamborghini Aventador 3470lbs
Lamborghini Gallardo 3300lbs (spyder) 3400lbs (coupe)

Ferrari 458 3200lbs
Ferrari California 3600lbs

So yea, the competition is rather portly as well
Aventador with an all carbon fiber body 3600lb
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/specs.html

Ferrari 458 3400 lb http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...car_contender/

Ferrari california 3916 lb http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/specs.html
Lambo Gallardo 3310 lb http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ine_specs.html

Your are wrong on every car you stated so far.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:40 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Roadkillz View Post
Porsche 911
Porsche Boxster

What else is a Corvette competitor

dodge Viper

hmmm
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...xster_s_drive/
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:06 AM   #63
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I try to compare apples to apples (base curb weight to base curb weight). The problem with looking at car mags as a source to compare curb weights is that you get what trim/package and options they have with the car factored into the cars weight. That would make it an apples to oranges comparison, to put it simple if the C7 has a base curb weight of 3,300 pounds it will probably have a curb weight range of around 100 pounds from 3,300 for a base and 3,400 pounds for a fully loaded car.

Also you are comparing a base Porsche Boxster to a Boxster S which have different weights to start with. The current Boxster has a base weight of 2,888 pounds and the current Boxter S has a base curb weight of 2,910 pounds. So the 2007 Boxster (as tested by MT) came in at 3,001 pounds (not sure what options were on it) and the base current Boxster is 2,888 pounds. Though a Boxster S with PDK is 2,976 pounds (PDK and no other options).

Ford has no Corvette competitor, Dodge does in the Viper and its weights are as follows.

Base: 3,354 pounds
SRT track pack: 3,297 pounds
GTS: 3,431 pounds
GTS track pack: 3,374 pounds

The baseC7 is going to be as heavy (and in cases heavier) then the 640 pound V-10 powered which is wider and taller (but 2 inches shorter).
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:36 AM   #64
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The base 911 was more then a match for the base C6 (actually made the base C6 look really slow). Even though the base C6 had power on it, the 991 in base form handles and brakes better then the base C6. The base C6 which when it launched was an impressive performance vehicle later in life was kind of pathetic compared to what was out there. The base Corvette C6 as tested by road and track has a 0-60 of 4.3 seconds, 66.7MPH slalom speed, 0.82Gs on the skid pad (glad good year is out now), and 126 feet from 60-0 braking. So while the base 991 only has 350BHP it is more then a match for the base C6.

Don't get me wrong the Carrera has a higher MSRP then what the C7 will have. Though I feel that the C7 at least the Z51 C7 is going to be aimed directly at the Carrera S (which has a starting price of $96,000). Consider this though, in many European countries the C7 and 911 are going to be priced about the same and in some cases the C7 may be more expensive. The Carrera S as tested by road and track hit 60MPH in 3.5 seconds, 60-0 in 111 feet, 0.99Gs on the skid pad, and 74.1MPH on the slalom.

They stated that the Z51 C7 post faster lap times then the Grand Sport Corvette and is even competitive with the Z06 (not with the Z06 package and all of that stuff). It has to be in order to be able to keep up with the Porsche 911 Carrera S. BTW in that test the Porsche 911 Carrera S had a test weight with driver of 3,295 pounds and it wasn't a base Carrera. Depending on the options it can add a little to a lot of weight......
so let me get this right... your using European export taxes and pricing to consider the cars the same price...... I honestly don't even know how to respond to something as outrageous as that.

Not to mention the fact that the Carrera is almost exatly the same in speed and skid pad numbers for the same year. Carrera S generally recieved .98-.99 and the C6 was around .95 in most test. compare all of that with an easy 30k in REAL pricing differences and I think you have your answer.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:30 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Roadkillz View Post
I try to compare apples to apples (base curb weight to base curb weight). The problem with looking at car mags as a source to compare curb weights is that you get what trim/package and options they have with the car factored into the cars weight. That would make it an apples to oranges comparison, to put it simple if the C7 has a base curb weight of 3,300 pounds it will probably have a curb weight range of around 100 pounds from 3,300 for a base and 3,400 pounds for a fully loaded car.

Also you are comparing a base Porsche Boxster to a Boxster S which have different weights to start with. The current Boxster has a base weight of 2,888 pounds and the current Boxter S has a base curb weight of 2,910 pounds. So the 2007 Boxster (as tested by MT) came in at 3,001 pounds (not sure what options were on it) and the base current Boxster is 2,888 pounds. Though a Boxster S with PDK is 2,976 pounds (PDK and no other options).

Ford has no Corvette competitor, Dodge does in the Viper and its weights are as follows.

Base: 3,354 pounds
SRT track pack: 3,297 pounds
GTS: 3,431 pounds
GTS track pack: 3,374 pounds

The baseC7 is going to be as heavy (and in cases heavier) then the 640 pound V-10 powered which is wider and taller (but 2 inches shorter).
could you give more than just your opinion on the c7 weight ??? How do you know that the weight is for the base or the z51 ?
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:50 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by alexandro777 View Post
Aventador with an all carbon fiber body 3600lb
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/specs.html

Ferrari 458 3400 lb http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...car_contender/

Ferrari california 3916 lb http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/specs.html
Lambo Gallardo 3310 lb http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ine_specs.html


Your are wrong on every car you stated so far.
Yeah I thought these cars were all a bit heavier.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:03 AM   #67
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so let me get this right... your using European export taxes and pricing to consider the cars the same price...... I honestly don't even know how to respond to something as outrageous as that.

Not to mention the fact that the Carrera is almost exatly the same in speed and skid pad numbers for the same year. Carrera S generally recieved .98-.99 and the C6 was around .95 in most test. compare all of that with an easy 30k in REAL pricing differences and I think you have your answer.
No, I am pointing out that in some European countries they are the same price (after all this car will be sold in Europe as well). In the US the price advantage is always going to work in favor of the Corvette over the Porsche 911. In fact the C7 will once more fall in line price wise with the much slower Boxster in the US.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:04 AM   #68
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could you give more than just your opinion on the c7 weight ??? How do you know that the weight is for the base or the z51 ?
I do not know, I am only speculating as most sourcing have stated 3,300 pounds though I would expect something closer to 3,250 pounds. Still waiting for the weight specs just like everyone else yet have come to terms with the idea of the C7 being as heavy as 3,300 pounds.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:11 AM   #69
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Yeah I thought these cars were all a bit heavier.
Getting curb weights for Italian performance cars is a joke, they often only release their dry weights. 3,470 pounds is the dry weight for the Aventador as well as 3,638 pounds being the dry weight for the Murcielago.

Ferrari tends to rig road test and comparisons by setting up the test car for the track that is involved in the test.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:44 AM   #70
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Getting curb weights for Italian performance cars is a joke, they often only release their dry weights. 3,470 pounds is the dry weight for the Aventador as well as 3,638 pounds being the dry weight for the Murcielago.

Ferrari tends to rig road test and comparisons by setting up the test car for the track that is involved in the test.
Yeah they tend to be the only company that sends the head engineer to multi car shoot outs through MT when a 458 is present.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:24 PM   #71
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Yeah they tend to be the only company that sends the head engineer to multi car shoot outs through MT when a 458 is present.
I find this to be wrong, however Ferrari understands how important perception is in this market segment. Many people consider Ferrari to be the pinnacle of automotive engineering and technology. They maintain this with their huge investment in Formula one (considered the highest level of racing by many) and by winning car comparisons.

Here is where I think Ferrari is seriously missing the mark on things, you can only transfer so much F1 tech to your road cars. Ferrari doesn't use a 2.4L 20,000rpm V-8 engine in any of it's road cars, I don't think you could. Corvette has been officially back racing since 1999 with a slow but certain technology transfer from the race car to the road car. The C7 is probably the biggest example of this with the aerodynamics being incorporated on the road car. You have brake coolers front and rear, heat extractor in the hood, trans and differential coolers with air inlets in the rear and all of that air exists out the back through vents. The C7 is probably going to be the easiest Corvette ever to take from a road car to a dedicated track car. Not to mention that its structure and body are a good deal lighter then the C6 (strip the interior should net a car that is a good deal lighter then a stripped C6).

Even better you could probably take a bone stock Z51 C7 and do some serious tracking with it. Ferrari is really missing out on all of this development to the point where I don't think that their tactic will work for much longer. How much tweaking can they do to give their 458 the edge over a C7 that has had some serious gritty track development under its belt?.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:44 PM   #72
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Geez. The only excuse I haven't read is, "but the C7 has a thyroid condition."

The bottom line is it looks like the base C7 is going to weigh as much as a C6 ZR1 (3350 lbs) and it will perform at some level less than a C6 Z06. If you call that "successful development," Fine for you. I and others here do not.

Let's move on.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:05 PM   #73
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Geez. The only excuse I haven't read is, "but the C7 has a thyroid condition."

The bottom line is it looks like the base C7 is going to weigh as much as a C6 ZR1 (3350 lbs) and it will perform at some level less than a C6 Z06. If you call that "successful development," Fine for you. I and others here do not.

Let's move on.
On the weight issue sure....

On the performance issue I don't see how you can call that anything less then amazing performance. Do you expect the Z51 C7 to run the ring in 7:22????. Do you think that the base C7 should blow away the C6 Z06 in performance? and if you do then what would merit this?.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:17 PM   #74
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On the weight issue sure....

On the performance issue I don't see how you can call that anything less then amazing performance. Do you expect the Z51 C7 to run the ring in 7:22????. Do you think that the base C7 should blow away the C6 Z06 in performance? and if you do then what would merit this?.
Yes, I expect a 3350 lb Corvette to run 7:22 at the ring. The C6 can. The 3350 C7 can't. That's negative development IMO.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:09 PM   #75
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Yes, I expect a 3350 lb Corvette to run 7:22 at the ring. The C6 can. The 3350 C7 can't. That's negative development IMO.
The $100,000 c6 z06 can... the c6 can barely beat 8 minutes at best and i expect the c7 z51 to beat 7:40.
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