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Old 02-26-2013, 02:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
But to say that implies that we WRONGLY imprison large numbers of people. For whatever reason, we have a lot of ACTUAL CRIMINALS in this country. Are we in a contest with other countries to imprison the least? Do we just decriminalize rape and murder so we can win the contest??? Geez, I don't even get why we have the discussion unless you think we have a lot of innocent people in prison. All I read about these days is that prisons are so overcrowded that lower class felons are being released in droves to make room for higher class felons. What's the point of criticizing our prison census?
The vast majority of the people in our jails are not rapists and murderers. 59% of criminals are in jail for drug offenses. Our prison population quadrupled from 1980 to 2008, while violent crime went down by 30% over that time period.


Here is a quote from an article about just this very subject...

There is a temptation to look at this staggering difference in numbers and chalk it up to one more aspect of American exceptionalism. America is different, so the view goes, and it has always had a Wild West culture and a tough legal system. But the facts don't support the conventional wisdom. This wide gap between the U.S. and the rest of the world is relatively recent. In 1980 the U.S.'s prison population was about 150 per 100,000 adults. It has more than quadrupled since then. So something has happened in the past 30 years to push millions of Americans into prison.

That something, of course, is the war on drugs. Drug convictions went from 15 inmates per 100,000 adults in 1980 to 148 in 1996, an almost tenfold increase. More than half of America's federal inmates today are in prison on drug convictions. In 2009 alone, 1.66 million Americans were arrested on drug charges, more than were arrested on assault or larceny charges. And 4 of 5 of those arrests were simply for possession.



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz2M2ixsTOm

Now I know that this comes as a surprise to you Tex...but what amazes me is that this doesn't bother you considering it costs us $9.9 Trillion dollars to keep these people in jail for ten years.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the machine View Post
Now I know that this comes as a surprise to you Tex...but what amazes me is that this doesn't bother you considering it costs us $9.9 Trillion dollars to keep these people in jail for ten years.
Are you suggesting we should do like China does and
put them in front of a firing squad?

p.s. - For someone like you who seems to be so
concerned about accurate facts, you might want
to have a look at this link -
http://moneypennydd.wordpress.com/20...an-believe-in/
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
Are you suggesting we should do like China does and
put them in front of a firing squad?

p.s. - For someone like you who seems to be so
concerned about accurate facts, you might want
to have a look at this link -
http://moneypennydd.wordpress.com/20...an-believe-in/
Well no surprise....just like your argument, your link doesn't work.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:09 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by the machine View Post
Well no surprise....just like your argument, your link doesn't work.
It works fine for me!
You might want to invest in a better computer
or a better Internet provider.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:24 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
Lies & Bullshit????
If you were actually concerned about "Facts",
perhaps the first thing you should have done is
fact check your email??

This why I never post viral emails without first
trying to fact check them.
You might want to check this out - http://moneypennydd.wordpress.com/20...an-believe-in/

Once you have done this, I would be glad to discuss
the prison & budget issue if you have the guts to
initiate those topics in the News section.
Hey, at least they got the part about the Eiffel Tower right. There is no truth -- only internet factoids.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
Hey, at least they got the part about the Eiffel Tower right. There is no truth -- only internet factoids.
Gee! It would appear the link worked fine
for Tex.

machine, if you continue to have problems, I will
copy & paste the entire page for you.
Maybe all that porn you have been viewing has
put a glitch in your browser?
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the machine View Post
The vast majority of the people in our jails are not rapists and murderers. 59% of criminals are in jail for drug offenses. Our prison population quadrupled from 1980 to 2008, while violent crime went down by 30% over that time period.


Here is a quote from an article about just this very subject...

There is a temptation to look at this staggering difference in numbers and chalk it up to one more aspect of American exceptionalism. America is different, so the view goes, and it has always had a Wild West culture and a tough legal system. But the facts don't support the conventional wisdom. This wide gap between the U.S. and the rest of the world is relatively recent. In 1980 the U.S.'s prison population was about 150 per 100,000 adults. It has more than quadrupled since then. So something has happened in the past 30 years to push millions of Americans into prison.

That something, of course, is the war on drugs. Drug convictions went from 15 inmates per 100,000 adults in 1980 to 148 in 1996, an almost tenfold increase. More than half of America's federal inmates today are in prison on drug convictions. In 2009 alone, 1.66 million Americans were arrested on drug charges, more than were arrested on assault or larceny charges. And 4 of 5 of those arrests were simply for possession.



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz2M2ixsTOm

Now I know that this comes as a surprise to you Tex...but what amazes me is that this doesn't bother you considering it costs us $9.9 Trillion dollars to keep these people in jail for ten years.
Drug use doesn't exist in a vacuum. I work in a semi-rural area with lots and lots of druggies. Many of my patients have spent time in jail for drug possession. But guess what usually got them arrested? Burglary, theft and robbery. Yes, I believe in a common sense war on drugs. Should someone go to prison for possessing a single joint? NO, and that rarely happens any more. Texas used to be the king of putting them away for pot. Not any more. It's rarely taken to court unless it involves a major amount or another crime along side. The vast majority of people who do serious time for drugs are either a)dealing to supprt their habit or b) stealing to support their habit. It's a drug culture myth that our prisons are full of little angels who happened to get caught with a few flakes of weed in their jacket. GO spend a few days in any criminal court, watch the people being sent to jail - for all reasons - and come back and tell me we are wrongfully sending a bunch of productive citizens to the pen because they happened to get caught up in a little minor wrong-doing. It ain't the case. Our prisons are by and large full of bad guys who don't deserve to be wandering among law-abiding citizens.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
Drug use doesn't exist in a vacuum. I work in a semi-rural area with lots and lots of druggies. Many of my patients have spent time in jail for drug possession. But guess what usually got them arrested? Burglary, theft and robbery. Yes, I believe in a common sense war on drugs. Should someone go to prison for possessing a single joint? NO, and that rarely happens any more. Texas used to be the king of putting them away for pot. Not any more. It's rarely taken to court unless it involves a major amount or another crime along side. The vast majority of people who do serious time for drugs are either a)dealing to supprt their habit or b) stealing to support their habit. It's a drug culture myth that our prisons are full of little angels who happened to get caught with a few flakes of weed in their jacket. GO spend a few days in any criminal court, watch the people being sent to jail - for all reasons - and come back and tell me we are wrongfully sending a bunch of productive citizens to the pen because they happened to get caught up in a little minor wrong-doing. It ain't the case. Our prisons are by and large full of bad guys who don't deserve to be wandering among law-abiding citizens.
Tex, you are ignoring the facts. If you need to do that to make yourself feel better...well so be it, but I have put up fact after fact showing that the US puts more of it's citizens in jail than any other country. I posted an article that directly refutes your claim that we just have more bad guys. The fact is that until 1980 we were about even with the rest of the world as far as the number of people thrown in jail goes but then the war on drugs started.
The fact is that if you are convicted of robbery, or murder or any other crime to buy your drugs, you are not put in jail as a drug offender. You are put in jail for what you did. Drug offenders are in jail mostly for Crack use and or posession, which was the big new drug in the 80s.

You can try to hide your head in the sand however you like but the fact is that the war on drugs has cost us trillions (about 20 trillion on jail alone). The newest deal are the private jails that we are paying billions to to house all of those inmates, at even higher costs and with even more moral complications.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:46 PM   #24
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I don't think there's enough people in jail, there's a shitload more people in this country who should be in jail.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:02 PM   #25
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I don't think there's enough people in jail, there's a shitload more people in this country who should be in jail.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:20 PM   #26
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Take a breath there Tex...

Boy imagine if we became like China....our prison population would fall by two thirds, and our economy would be growing at about 7% a year....boy that would suck.
And families would be killing new born daughters, Because they wanted a Boy. Oh never mind we do that now only before they are born. And just because they did not to bother with one at all.
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I can't tell if I'm dealing well with life these days or I just don't give a shit any more.
Old 02-27-2013, 06:00 AM   #27
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When China releases actual data for how many
people they put in front of a firing squad
each year, we will then be able to
make an actual comparison between the U.S.
and China incarceration rates.
Until such data is available, all we can
assume is that machine is blowing smoke.

People who tend to blow smoke also seem
to enjoy posting viral emails that they never
bothered to fact check.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:21 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
When China releases actual data for how many
people they put in front of a firing squad
each year, we will then be able to
make an actual comparison between the U.S.
and China incarceration rates.
Until such data is available, all we can
assume is that machine is blowing smoke.

People who tend to blow smoke also seem
to enjoy posting viral emails that they never
bothered to fact check.
How about running them over with tanks. Do we count those?

Let's be realistic that China has a poor history of civil rights and has on occasion used force to “persuade” their citizens. That's just facts.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:19 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by C5 Dude View Post
How about running them over with tanks. Do we count those?

Let's be realistic that China has a poor history of civil rights and has on occasion used force to “persuade” their citizens. That's just facts.
While I agree completely with you on China's record...our record is even worse when it comes to imprisoning our own people. Sorry but that is simply a fact.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:28 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C6 CRUZR View Post
When China releases actual data for how many
people they put in front of a firing squad
each year, we will then be able to
make an actual comparison between the U.S.
and China incarceration rates.
Until such data is available, all we can
assume is that machine is blowing smoke.

People who tend to blow smoke also seem
to enjoy posting viral emails that they never
bothered to fact check.
Well the truth of the matter is that you could easily post what Human Rights watch estimates....it took me 5 minutes to find. And while the number is horendous at 5000 a year, I never said anything about the death penalty. Now of course you said that China puts so many of it's citizens to death that, that combined with their Adminstrative detentions would easily exceed the incarceration rates of the US. Well 5000 plus an estimated 250,000 administrative detentions adds up to about 1.855 million to our 2.2 million. Still far from equaling our numbers and even less than the 2/3 less that I originaly posted. Lets remember pal....you were the one who called BS....you were the one who claimed to have the real numbers....but all you seem to have is lots of hot air and excuses for why I keep proving you wrong.

So tell us Cruzr....where is your accuracy in numbers?????
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