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Buying my first Corvette

10K views 73 replies 9 participants last post by  Junkman2008 
#1 ·
I made a promise back in 1960-that I would legally own a Corvette some day-no matter what.

Finally ready to buy one. I need some advice and insight.

I am focused on a C5--2001 or later Convertible with manual transmission and Z51. Seems to be a very good buy now.

When were the high tension piston rings stalled? It is my understanding that the factory change occurred mid April 2001. Does anyone have an exact date?

Was the piston slap issue also corrected at the same time as the piston ring issue? I seem to remember that piston slap issue was corrected by the model year of 2002. Does anyone have the exact date of change of piston type and tighter fitting of the piston at the factory? Did this involve the LS1 also-or just the LS6? Will piston slap always be noticeable at cold start (ambient temperature in the 20s F)?

How can one determine the exact date of manufacture of one of these Corvettes? The driver's side door just has the month and year of manufacture.

I have read about the oil pressure sensor issue and the difficulty of replacement . This is one of the first questions that I ask the owner-has the OPS been replaced?

Does GM have a dealer database of all dealer maintenance done to a particular VIN? I know that Ford has such a database called Oasis. Is there a similar GM database ?

I have asked that the Corvette be placed on an overhead lift so that the underneath can be checked. I will look for leakage from the output shafts and from anywhere else-especially from the back of the engine block-to make sure that the oil pressure sensor isn't leaking nor the camshaft position sensor.

I will also check for headlight lift operation. And check for present or past battery leakage damage underneath the battery tray.

I am looking at a beautiful 2001 Convertible with 6 sp and Torch Red/Light Oak. Z51,N37,-almost all options. Three owner,35k miles-with new Optima.And four new Michelin Run Flat tires! Underneath the hood-all of the aluminum parts have no corrosion at all -even the front of the engine block. Nor are the heat shields on the exhaust headers old looking. I wonder if this Corvette ever saw rain.

It is amazing how nice many of these Corvettes are ! Most owners take extremely good care of them and the mileage is very low usually for a vehicle of this vintage.

Any advice?

Appreciate any help.
 
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#2 ·
Welcome and sounds like a good buy if the price is right.

I have alot of engine internal questions answered at the LS1tech forum. They can answer alot of engine related stuff but barely any body stuff. It is an engine driven forum. I find it good for some stuff but come here for everything else including just good fun.

Welcome again.

:buhbye:
 
#3 ·
..............How can one determine the exact date of manufacture of one of these Corvettes?

I have read about the oil pressure sensor issue and the difficulty of replacement .

Does GM have a dealer database of all dealer maintenance done to a particular VIN?

I have asked that the Corvette be placed on an overhead lift so that the underneath can be checked. I will look for leakage from the output shafts and from anywhere else-especially from the back of the engine block-to make sure that the oil pressure sensor isn't leaking nor the camshaft position sensor.

I will also check for headlight lift operation. And check for present or past battery leakage damage underneath the battery tray.

I am looking at a beautiful 2001 Convertible with 6 sp and Torch Red/Light Oak. Z51,N37,-almost all options. Three owner,35k miles-with new Optima.And four new Michelin Run Flat tires! Underneath the hood-all of the aluminum parts have no corrosion at all -even the front of the engine block. Nor are the heat shields on the exhaust headers old looking. I wonder if this Corvette ever saw rain.

It is amazing how nice many of these Corvettes are ! Most owners take extremely good care of them and the mileage is very low usually for a vehicle of this vintage.

Any advice?

Appreciate any help.
Welcome :buhbye: ..........and Congratulations :thumbsup:

You will want to 1st check the DIC on the dash and write down ALL codes that may appear. The information will tell you of any current or history codes. Read the stickys at the top of the C5 Section to decipher codes.

The exact day can be identified though the VIN or Job number. The 2001 production began at 11:12 am June 23, 2000 with, Vin #100045, Job #000001. The last 2001 was built on June 21, 2001. Available through a online search......ssssssh, I think it was suppose to be a secret, but I have it.

The OPS is not difficult to replace. The Junkman has a very informative DIY here on DC. If you have a friendly GM dealer, :thud: or a friend at a GM dealer, a VIN history report of services performed by any GM dealer on car should be available. .......Should be. But I wouldn't go there for anything else.......unless they have a lunch buffet. :laughing:

The output shaft seal......well, if you haven't had it leak yet, it will in do time. Again, the Junkman has a detailed DIY write up here. I am doing this right now during winter hibernation on my 2003 Z with 22K miles.

Headlight lift issues are usually a result of a stripped nylon gear. ......Usually. A simple replacement with a bronze gear takes care of it. Again a simple DIY can be found here.

The battery is very important to prevent the column lock and many other C5 parasitic draw issues. You will want to watch the Paul Koerner Seminar videos. Optima did not make a battery specific to the needs of the C5 with a 120 minimum reserve capacity. At least, the last time I purchased a new battery.

Runflat tires were not used on C5 Z's for weight reduction, so I can't speak for the runflats. I have had good experiences with changing to Michelins on everything I own though. Check the date codes on the tires though to confirm new....

Oh, :surprised Torch Red Vettes are the best :thumbsup:

Enjoy the site...:cheers:...and remember to Save the Wave :buhbye:
 
#4 ·
I made a promise back in 1960-that I would legally own a Corvette some day-no matter what.
That line right there sounds like you finally got tired of driving stolen ones! :laughing:

Finally ready to buy one. I need some advice and insight.

I am focused on a C5--2001 or later Convertible with manual transmission and Z51. Seems to be a very good buy now.

When were the high tension piston rings stalled? It is my understanding that the factory change occurred mid April 2001. Does anyone have an exact date?
Here are the changes that were made to the 2001 - 2004 C5 during its production run:

2001

return to 28# injectors for all models.
Second Generation Active Handling
Nassau Blue discontinued
Alternator 'clutch' pulley added on A4 cars
New soundproofing + foam in all cars
Smaller keyfob
electrochromic dimming rearview and driver's mirrors
lighter AGM battery
Thickness + Material in vert change
Chrome exhaust tips for coupe + vert
85MM MAF with integral temp sensor (versus 74mm with separate plug for IAT)
LS1 cam profile changed to: .500/0.500, 198/208 on 115.5LSA (From: 0.472/0.479, 202/210 on 117)
All Corvettes now have the LS6 intake manifold
All Corvettes now have the LS6 engine block (windage passages in block), which includes a beefier oil pump.
LS1 changes result in new output of 350 HP @ 5200 RPM and 375 Ft Lbs of torque @ 4400 RPM (MN6)
Hardtop/FRC discontinued
Pup cats added to all models
Stronger synchros in all transmissions
Exhaust manifolds revised (5hp regained) - thin wall cast replacing SS manifolds
metal valvestem caps (late year)
Torque Tube changed from metal-matrix composite to aluminum alloy 6061, increased in dia from 55 to 63 mm.
Driveshaft couplings have also been upgraded on manual-equipped models for additional strength and durability
Introduction of the Z06, which has as differences:
hardtop body style
rear brake ducting
screened inlets on front fascia, without foglights
F1 supercar tires 265-17 front, 295-18 rear, on 17x9.5 and 18x10.5 (one inch wider, respectively
new LS6 top-end with new style head design (10.5:1 compression, 64cc chamber), LS6 cam (0.525/0.525, 204/211 on 116) - 385hp
M12 transmission with shorter gearing (1-2-3 analagous to MN6 with 3.90 rear diff
Titanium exhaust system
lightweight windshield
New, stronger clutch with redesigned master + slave cylinder
Stronger rear differential (shotpeened ring gear)
Red brake calipers (otherwise identical)
Trans overtemp warning light on DIC
6500 redline gauges with special checkering + Z06 font
redesigned PCV system to help combat oil burning
Red LS6 Fuel Rail Covers (FRC's)
FE4 Z06 suspension - uprated springs, bars (30mm/23.6mm), shocks (note front spring and rear bar same as Z51)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2002

Z06 Changes:
Z06 LS6 cam changed to: 0.551/0.547, 204/218 on 117.5
Less restrictive intake airbox lid
Descreened MAF
Removal of pup-cats (total with changes = 405hp)
Z06 shocks revised with less rebound for better launching
Z06 brake pads revised for better stopping (generate more dust)
Lighter, sodium filled valves w/ stronger valvesprings
higher tension rings installed to prevent oil burning problems
slight piston redesign *
clutch strength upgraded.
HUD available on Z06 (not avail '01 model year)
Wheel supplier changed to Speedline, moved from forged to cast. Weight nearly identical
Electron Blue color offered
Steel endlinks changed to aluminum
Aluminum automatic transmission cooler case (all models)
AM/FM stereo with in-dash CD player now standard on Coupe and Convertible
AM/FM/Cassette only available with 12-disc CD changer on Coupe and Convertible

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2003

Late model-year new fuel system design from C6's
2003 anniversary edition with Anniversary paint and decal option.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004

Z06 shocks further refined. Accompanying upper front control arm bushing, and rear swaybar bushing changes.
2004 Commemorative Editions. CE Z06 comes with carbon fiber hood and has decal package.


Was the piston slap issue also corrected at the same time as the piston ring issue? I seem to remember that piston slap issue was corrected by the model year of 2002. Does anyone have the exact date of change of piston type and tighter fitting of the piston at the factory? Did this involve the LS1 also-or just the LS6? Will piston slap always be noticeable at cold start (ambient temperature in the 20s F)?
I don't remember the piston slap issue ever being resolved with the LS1.

How can one determine the exact date of manufacture of one of these Corvettes? The driver's side door just has the month and year of manufacture.
Remove the bumper off the car and pull the build sheet out of the front frame hollow space.

I have read about the oil pressure sensor issue and the difficulty of replacement . This is one of the first questions that I ask the owner-has the OPS been replaced?
Who cares if it has been replaced, the question you need to ask is HOW it was replaced. Did the previous owner do the hack job and cut a hole in the firewall beneath the cowl or did they remove the plenum? The best way to fix that problem and make it a non-issue the next time it goes out (and it WILL go out again), is to relocate it the way I did mine in this thread.

Does GM have a dealer database of all dealer maintenance done to a particular VIN? I know that Ford has such a database called Oasis. Is there a similar GM database ?
Yes, but I can't remember if all dealerships share their databases. It's been so many years since I visited a dealer that I can't remember. I wouldn't let most of those hacks near my car.

I have asked that the Corvette be placed on an overhead lift so that the underneath can be checked. I will look for leakage from the output shafts and from anywhere else-especially from the back of the engine block-to make sure that the oil pressure sensor isn't leaking nor the camshaft position sensor.
There's also the rear main that can leak and the plate on the back of the motor that can leak also (you can see the top of the plate just above the flywheel in this picture). Ask me how I know.



You have to drop the entire drivetrain from the torque tube to the rear suspension to fix that issue. :thud:

I will also check for headlight lift operation. And check for present or past battery leakage damage underneath the battery tray.
You need to check the battery too. Not just any battery will work correctly in these cars. It needs to 78-6YR, 700 CCA, with 120 RC. The AC Delco battery number that meets these requirements is model number 19001632.

I am looking at a beautiful 2001 Convertible with 6 sp and Torch Red/Light Oak. Z51,N37,-almost all options. Three owner,35k miles-with new Optima.And four new Michelin Run Flat tires! Underneath the hood-all of the aluminum parts have no corrosion at all -even the front of the engine block. Nor are the heat shields on the exhaust headers old looking. I wonder if this Corvette ever saw rain.

It is amazing how nice many of these Corvettes are ! Most owners take extremely good care of them and the mileage is very low usually for a vehicle of this vintage.

Any advice?

Appreciate any help.
Have you checked the date code on those tires? They may look new but you will never know until you check the date code. Here's how.

Good luck with your purchase and welcome to the forum. You should jump into the intro forum and introduce yourself to the masses. :buhbye:
 
#73 ·
That line right there sounds like you finally got tired of driving stolen ones! :laughing:



Here are the changes that were made to the 2001 - 2004 C5 during its production run:

2001

return to 28# injectors for all models.
Second Generation Active Handling
Nassau Blue discontinued
Alternator 'clutch' pulley added on A4 cars
New soundproofing + foam in all cars
Smaller keyfob
electrochromic dimming rearview and driver's mirrors
lighter AGM battery
Thickness + Material in vert change
Chrome exhaust tips for coupe + vert
85MM MAF with integral temp sensor (versus 74mm with separate plug for IAT)
LS1 cam profile changed to: .500/0.500, 198/208 on 115.5LSA (From: 0.472/0.479, 202/210 on 117)
All Corvettes now have the LS6 intake manifold
All Corvettes now have the LS6 engine block (windage passages in block), which includes a beefier oil pump.
LS1 changes result in new output of 350 HP @ 5200 RPM and 375 Ft Lbs of torque @ 4400 RPM (MN6)
Hardtop/FRC discontinued
Pup cats added to all models
Stronger synchros in all transmissions
Exhaust manifolds revised (5hp regained) - thin wall cast replacing SS manifolds
metal valvestem caps (late year)
Torque Tube changed from metal-matrix composite to aluminum alloy 6061, increased in dia from 55 to 63 mm.
Driveshaft couplings have also been upgraded on manual-equipped models for additional strength and durability
Introduction of the Z06, which has as differences:
hardtop body style
rear brake ducting
screened inlets on front fascia, without foglights
F1 supercar tires 265-17 front, 295-18 rear, on 17x9.5 and 18x10.5 (one inch wider, respectively
new LS6 top-end with new style head design (10.5:1 compression, 64cc chamber), LS6 cam (0.525/0.525, 204/211 on 116) - 385hp
M12 transmission with shorter gearing (1-2-3 analagous to MN6 with 3.90 rear diff
Titanium exhaust system
lightweight windshield
New, stronger clutch with redesigned master + slave cylinder
Stronger rear differential (shotpeened ring gear)
Red brake calipers (otherwise identical)
Trans overtemp warning light on DIC
6500 redline gauges with special checkering + Z06 font
redesigned PCV system to help combat oil burning
Red LS6 Fuel Rail Covers (FRC's)
FE4 Z06 suspension - uprated springs, bars (30mm/23.6mm), shocks (note front spring and rear bar same as Z51)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2002

Z06 Changes:
Z06 LS6 cam changed to: 0.551/0.547, 204/218 on 117.5
Less restrictive intake airbox lid
Descreened MAF
Removal of pup-cats (total with changes = 405hp)
Z06 shocks revised with less rebound for better launching
Z06 brake pads revised for better stopping (generate more dust)
Lighter, sodium filled valves w/ stronger valvesprings
higher tension rings installed to prevent oil burning problems
slight piston redesign *
clutch strength upgraded.
HUD available on Z06 (not avail '01 model year)
Wheel supplier changed to Speedline, moved from forged to cast. Weight nearly identical
Electron Blue color offered
Steel endlinks changed to aluminum
Aluminum automatic transmission cooler case (all models)
AM/FM stereo with in-dash CD player now standard on Coupe and Convertible
AM/FM/Cassette only available with 12-disc CD changer on Coupe and Convertible

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2003

Late model-year new fuel system design from C6's
2003 anniversary edition with Anniversary paint and decal option.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004

Z06 shocks further refined. Accompanying upper front control arm bushing, and rear swaybar bushing changes.
2004 Commemorative Editions. CE Z06 comes with carbon fiber hood and has decal package.




I don't remember the piston slap issue ever being resolved with the LS1.



Remove the bumper off the car and pull the build sheet out of the front frame hollow space.



Who cares if it has been replaced, the question you need to ask is HOW it was replaced. Did the previous owner do the hack job and cut a hole in the firewall beneath the cowl or did they remove the plenum? The best way to fix that problem and make it a non-issue the next time it goes out (and it WILL go out again), is to relocate it the way I did mine in this thread.



Yes, but I can't remember if all dealerships share their databases. It's been so many years since I visited a dealer that I can't remember. I wouldn't let most of those hacks near my car.



There's also the rear main that can leak and the plate on the back of the motor that can leak also (you can see the top of the plate just above the flywheel in this picture). Ask me how I know.



You have to drop the entire drivetrain from the torque tube to the rear suspension to fix that issue. :thud:



You need to check the battery too. Not just any battery will work correctly in these cars. It needs to 78-6YR, 700 CCA, with 120 RC. The AC Delco battery number that meets these requirements is model number 19001632.



Have you checked the date code on those tires? They may look new but you will never know until you check the date code. Here's how.

Good luck with your purchase and welcome to the forum. You should jump into the intro forum and introduce yourself to the masses. :buhbye:
The Post King at it again!:smack
 
#5 · (Edited)
Thanks to all.You all have given me some good pointers.

Like most guys-I wanted to own or will own a Corvette. It is an American Icon that DRIVES.

I shouldn't haven taken that test drive in the 2001 Convertible,6sp, Z51, equipped Corvette several weeks ago-such a test drive removes almost all common sense and reason from a buyer.:surprised And the owner could tell immediately that my will was weakening. Especially when I heard the magical statement from the owner:"Open her up" when we were test driving in the rural Plains of Colorado.

I could tell immediately after the test drive- that the designers of the Corvette were enthusiasts all and that the designers loved their product and wanted the owner to love the vehicle. Passionate engineering was apparent in everything about the C5.

I was prepared to find something about this C5 that I wouldn't like-but couldn't find anything . The view of the road from the drivers side over the low hood -just perfect. The relationship of the stickshift lever to the drivers seat when the seat is fully adjusted back-just perfect.The low effort and progressive clutch! The steering wheel to seat relationship (w N37)-just perfect for my 6' 3'' frame.And I have head room-with the top up! The Sport seats fit the lower back- perfectly. The low center of gravity and weight distribution-seems outstanding. And the quad exhaust system exiting from center rear-just a perfect appealing design that stresses the power and the IRS.

But you C5 owners-you already know all of this.

Most of guys have a low regard for the GM dealership. If one doesn't want to wrench on one of these-then the thing to do would be to find a Corvette specialty shop to work on it?

The piston slap issue: It is my understanding that it is a matter of piston to cylinder wall clearance issue and that usually it occurs not due to wear-but due to the original factory clearance. That it doesn't actually cause operating issues-just noise issues.

If I hear the LS1 start from the deep overnight cold start in 20 degree F ambient temperature-and I don't hear piston slap-it shouldn't be an issue for that particular Corvette-correct? Piston slap will be most obvious when the engine is cold?

It is also my understanding that the piston ring issue can cause high oil consumption usually only when the engine is under low load/high RPM conditions.Is this correct?
 
#7 ·
... The piston slap issue: It is my understanding that it is a matter of piston to cylinder wall clearance issue and that usually it occurs not due to wear-but due to the original factory clearance. That it doesn't actually cause operating issues-just noise issues.
The only thing that I can tell you is that it does NOT cause any operating issues, it goes away after the engine heats up and my car has done it since the first day that I've owned it. It only happens noticeably when the engine is cold.

If I hear the LS1 start from the deep overnight cold start in 20 degree F ambient temperature-and I don't hear piston slap-it shouldn't be an issue for that particular Corvette-correct? Piston slap will be most obvious when the engine is cold?
Yes, just as I said above.

It is also my understanding that the piston ring issue can cause high oil consumption usually only when the engine is under low load/high RPM conditions.Is this correct?
See the attached PDF document.
 

Attachments

#10 · (Edited)
More questions after viewing three more C5s

I have been looking at several C5s since I last wrote.

2000 convertible M yellow MN6,F45,N37,UV6 60k miles 16.2k dollars 4 owners . Excellent Carfax.2k miles on non EMT tires .Curb rash on passenger side polished wheel.Wet type new battery."Dry and dirty" oil leak directly below EBCM.

2004 convertible Magnetic red MN6,F55,N37,UV6,N73 37k miles 23.5k dollars 4 owners. Excellent Carfax. 80 percent left on EMT tires. No road rash on wheels.Tires dismount rash on one wheel ( factory magnesium).Wet type new battery.

2004 coupe LeMans Blue (beautiful color) MN6,F55,UV6,N37
36k miles 24.5k dollars. 6 owners . Excellent Carfax No curb rash on any wheel.

I learned how to pull DTCs in the DIC. And I sent over 2 hours looking at each of these three Corvettes. I have several questions:

All of these and others have oil leaking from the oil filter-usually a visible drop. Undertightening? Should this be a concern?

All of the above and others have historic DTC in the DIC. At first-I was concerned about this. But it would seem that one would want to see this-it tells the buyer that the codes have not been erased by the seller. How many of your Corvettes have historic trouble code? Is this common? Should I buy one of these with historic DTC but not current DTC?

All have minor damage to the front skid rails -normal?

The 2000 M yellow above is missing the center air dam-the pivoting rubber part but also the springs and other attachments for the center rubber air dam. Are these attachments and springs available aftermarket? Also the clear plastic lens for the instrument panel is foggy. How hard to replace the clear lens? And is this lens available in the aftermarket?

The 2004 Le Mans Blue coupe above has a 10 inch scrap thru the color coat of the passenger side vertical front bumper cover. I am thinking 1k to smooth the scrap marks and repaint the whole bumper cover. This is an accurate assumption? There is a one inch round" bird duty" mark on the rear hatch thru to the metal-another 1 k cost to repaint and repair? Accurate cost assumption? Otherwise-the metallic Le Mans Blue is just perfect and outright beautiful to behold!

Wet type new battery has been placed in this 04 LeMans Blue coupe-I checked with flashlight-no evidence of battery leakage in the past or present. Should this concern me?

Appreciate all of your help and advice.
 
#11 ·
I have been looking several C5s since I last wrote.

2000 convertible M yellow MN6,F45,N37,UV6 60k miles 16.2k dollars 4 owners . Excellent Carfax.

2004 convertible Magnetic red MN6,F55,N37,UV6 37k miles 23.5k dollars 4 owners. Excellent Carfax

2004 coupe Lemans blue (beautiful color) MN6,F55,UV6,N37
36k miles 24.5k dollars. 6 owners . Excellent Carfax

I learned how to pull DTCs in the DIC. And I sent over 2 hours looking at each of these three Corvettes. I have several questions:

All of these and others have oil leaking from the oil filter-usually a drop. Undertightening? Should this be a concern?
That completely depends on where the leak is coming from. If it's the oil filter, easy fix. If it's the oil pan, much harder fix. If's it's the rear main or rear engine seal, MUCH harder fix!

All of the above and others have historic DTC in the DIC. At first-I was concerned about this. But it would seem that one would want to see this-it tells the buyer that the codes have not been erased by the seller. How many of your Corvettes have historic trouble code? Is this common? Should I buy one of these with historic DTC but not current DTC?
Again, that depends on the codes. Some history codes are common to most C5's. Some you will never see unless there IS a problem or the car has been modified in some way. I will agree that it is better to see some codes instead of seeing NO codes. There are always history codes stored and if none are present, they have probably been erased.

All have damage to the front skid plates-normal?
At least you know they have been driven! Normal.

The 2000 M yellow above is missing the center air dam-the pivoting rubber part but also the springs and other attachments for the center rubber air dam. Are these attachments and springs available aftermarket? Also the clear plastic lens for the instrument panel is foggy. How hard to replace the clear lens? And how easy?
Drop that car off your list. Not only is that a undesirable year compared to the other two, but those missing and damaged parts are signs of a shade tree hack mechanic. You can easily get replacement parts of those items but there's no telling what else is wrong with that car. Run from that deal.

The 2004 Lemans Blue coupe above has a 10 inch scrap thru the color coat of the passenger side front bumper cover. I am thinking 1k to smooth the scrap marks and repaint the whole bumper cover. This is an accurate assumption? There is a one inch round bird duty mark on the rear hatch thru to the metal-another 1 k cost to repaint and repair. Accurate cost assumption? Otherwise-the metalic Lemans blue is just perfect and outright beautiful to behold!
First, your paint cost are way high. Second, there is no metal body panels. Except for the front and rear fascia, all the other body panels are made of fiberglass. If that is all that is wrong with the car, it sounds like one to consider.

Wet new battery has been placed in this 04 Lemans coupe-I checked with flashlight-no evidence of battery leakage in the past or present. Should this concern me?

Appreciate all of your help and advice.
Exactly WHAT MODEL new battery? You can't just slap any battery in these cars as they are very battery specific and reliant.
 
#12 ·
Mr Junkman:

I just saw one drip of oil hanging from the oil filter on these cars. I didn't see any oil from the rear main bearing seal area.But not sure-these "bat wing" oil pans are really strange.

The missing center air dam on the 2000 M yellow seemed to have been torn from the radiator support. There were scrap marks on the two aluminum triangular pivot points for the center air dam. I think if it was removed-it was because one end of the center air dam was hanging from a collision with a parking stop or whatever. The rest of the Corvette was nice-but showing wear somewhat.No garage queen.

I haven't had a Corvette or a Corvette class of vehicle before-but it has been my experience that a plastic/ urethane front bumper cover surface repair with two stage repaint and RR runs around 500- 1k and that repainting a panel-or hatch in this case-runs over 500 hundred to prep the surface,remove back glass and repaint. I am talking about quality body work that is warrantied with an excellent match of original and new paint--especially metallic dark paint(very hard to match). There is also a split in the driver's side vertical leather seat-near the seam-the leather is split near the threads.I am trying to get the seller down 2.5 k because of these issues involving this 04 coupe with 36k miles and asking price of 24.5k dollars.

I appreciate your input. I wish that I lived in your area and I get you to come with me on these Corvette quests. Experienced input is invaluable.:thumbsup:
 
#13 ·
Mr Junkman:

I just saw one drip of oil hanging from the oil filter on these cars. I didn't see any oil from the rear main bearing seal area.But not sure-these "bat wing" oil pans are really strange.
Exactly, you didn't see any leak from the rear main because you don't know where to look. You also don't know how the oil travels and where it travels to when it is leaking from these areas. I do, from all three as I have experienced them in depth on my own car. Just take a look at my head gasket leak repair thread (or any of my engine repair threads). I've spent some with outside my LS1.

The missing center air dam on the 2000 M yellow seemed to have been torn from the radiator support. There were scrap marks on the two aluminum triangular pivot points for the center air dam. I think if it was removed-it was because one end of the center air dam was hanging from a collision with a parking stop or whatever. The rest of the Corvette was nice-but showing wear somewhat.No garage queen.
And that guess would be mostly be incorrect. However, if that's what happened, here's the horror of that scenario.

The mounting hardware that holds that center air dam to the car is located pretty high up in the scheme of things. Look at the picture below. You see how far down the skids protrude from where the top of the center air dam meets the car? That means that you would have to bottom out the car hard enough to bust through the air dam in order to get to the center air dam's mounting bolts. OR, you would need to jump a parking block or curve, and then drag the front end of the car back over the offending obstruction. That is a sign of someone who is reckless with their car. Add to that, the air dams are there for a specific reason. They assist in making the engine run cooler by forcing air into the air box, condenser and radiator. Running the car without the center air dam is going to cause it to overheat rather quickly in the summer. Over heating the engine high enough leads to head gaskets failing and that's a completely different headache that you don't want to experience.



The right-side mounting bolt is located on the skid just in front of the stream of coolant.



I haven't had a Corvette or a Corvette class of vehicle before-but it has been my experience that a plastic/ urethane front bumper cover surface repair with two stage repaint and RR runs around 500- 1k and that repainting a panel-or hatch in this case-runs over 500 hundred to prep the surface,remove back glass and repaint. I am talking about quality body work that is warrantied with an excellent match of original and new paint--especially metallic dark paint(very hard to match).
Look at this thread. This will give you and idea as to my level of experience when it comes to painting these cars. I had my hatch painted once when I first got the car and I did NOT want the glass removed because I didn't want it falling out again some day. Now I do all the work myself so that I don't have to worry about anyone else doing shoddy work.

You can find a shop that will charge you whatever you want to pay. I'm looking at what the shop manual says as far as time is concerned and the front fascia does not cost a $1000+ to prep and paint.

There is also a split in the driver's side vertical leather seat-near the seam-the leather is split near the threads.I am trying to get the seller down 2.5 k because of these issues involving this 04 coupe with 36k miles and asking price of 24.5k dollars.

I appreciate your input. I wish that I lived in your area and I get you to come with me on these Corvette quests. Experienced input is invaluable.:thumbsup:
When you get ready to fix that seat, have a look at this thread. For $600, you can replace both seats in your car with LEATHER instead of the crappy leather/vinyl crap that the stock seats are made of.
 
#27 ·
Negotiating an offer

Many of you guys here on this website have bought used C5s from private owners. What is the best way to negotiate an offer?

Most Corvette sellers are very proud of their C5 and paid a lot for it several years ago and don't take kindly to offers it seems. It is an upscale high performance vehicle and the seller is usually very enthusiastic about their C5.

Most will not accept a offer and even if they say they will-don't believe that their asking price is unreasonable.

Usually I offer about 5/10 percent below the asking price on most of my used car offers. This doesn't seem to work when offering to C5 owners.

I don't want to offend the C5 owners-but many don't realize that their C5s are not in perfect condition usually and don't realize that their asking price should reflect the condition of the C5-not just the mileage and model year.

How does one may an offer and not insult the owner? Should the potential buyer wait and send the offer via email? Or make he make the offer in person when looking at the C5? Should one point out the deficiencies of that individual C5? Or not mention the problems at all and just make an offer?

What is the most effective way to get the best price on a C5 without insulting a fellow enthrusiast? :huh:
 
#28 ·
... What is the most effective way to get the best price on a C5 without insulting a fellow enthrusiast? :huh:
First, explain to anyone selling a car what condition the car must be in for you to consider purchasing it. Second, give a range that you are willing to pay for a car in the condition you want. Then ask the seller if his car fits the description that you have dictated. That's one way to make an offer without seeing the car. If the seller agrees to your terms, then go look at the car. This way, you are not making an offer, you are describing your spending limit and desires before you even see the car. Once you see the car, you can point out the things that are not up to snuff, even though you explained those things to the seller and the seller claimed that his car matched your desires. That's grounds for a negotiable discount.
 
#29 ·
I have to agree with Junkman. I actually bought mine off Ebay from a dealer. The ad was loaded with pictures and he offered a warranty. To top it off, he only asked for $500 up front and then make a copy of my cashiers check (so he knew I had it) and he trucked the car down to me saying that if the car was not everything that he claimed, I could send it back with the driver. I figured I couldn't lose (except for that $500).

Anyway, the point is that you need to be true to yourself and what you want. As you pointed out, these are not exactly cheap cars and if you are going to take the plunge, don't settle. While I am very proud of my car (and the trophies it has won), I am still realistic about it and know that it has road rash on the nose...I drive it after all. The guards underneath are all scratched where I have hit tall driveways entrances and parking space stops...it is what it is.

If someone is trying to make the car into something that it is clearly not, that is probably not the car you want anyway. It took a lot of research to find the right car for me and I wouldn't think twice to point out the flaws because they will become YOUR flaws and you should both be on the same page before swapping that kind of cash.

I also agree that some people feel that pointing out a problem with their Vette is akin to calling their kid ugly but...deep down, they probably know it too.

Is there a reason that you are not looking at dealers? Often, they have a much larger amount of wiggle room in the price because they dont have as much in it and there is something to be said for possibly having a warranty (if they offer it). Mine came in handy because 3 days after I got mine, the starter died and it would have been an extra $800 nut that I was not prepared to pay. Just my 2 cents... Good luck on your search!!
 
#30 ·
... Is there a reason that you are not looking at dealers? Often, they have a much larger amount of wiggle room in the price because they dont have as much in it and there is something to be said for possibly having a warranty (if they offer it). Mine came in handy because 3 days after I got mine, the starter died and it would have been an extra $800 nut that I was not prepared to pay. Just my 2 cents... Good luck on your search!!
Wow, $800???

Dude, you could have towed it to me with a 16oz filet and I would have knocked it out for a fraction of that! :thumbsup:
 
#33 ·
I found a nice 2000 C5 Convertible that has the Z49 RPO package (Canadian Mandatory base equipment) and the U19 RPO (Canadian export metric instruments) with engine block heater (K05). But is also has a NF2 RPO -which is "Federal Emissions Standard Tier 1".

Anyone out there with a Canadian export C5 that has been registered in the USA? Will this cause any issues?

Will moose show an unnatural affinity to my Canadian C5? :rolling:

We have to get our vehicles thru an I/M 240 chassis dyno roller emission test before we can register our vehicles in the Denver area.

I plan on asking the dealership to emission test it before any possible purchase.

I also assume that the metric Canadian instruments will allow one to select American MPH and other normal measurements.:D I have never seen one of these exports before.

I wonder if CarFax will pull records north of the border? Anyone know? Eh.
 
#35 ·
I am not looking for Canadian C5s. It was traded in to a Colorado dealer and it is a Torch Red/Light Oak convertible-just what I am looking for. I don't think that the dealer was aware of it's history. I just took a picture of the RPO sticker on the glove box door and decoded it. Eh.
 
#36 ·
That's a sweet color combo but it's a 2000. I would personally buy a 2001 or better. The 2001 was when the majority of the fixes were done to the C5. That's what you should be looking for if you ask me.
 
#38 ·
He may be going through a case of 'vision blindness' by the sight of the cars he's looking at instead of listening to the voice of reason. Common problem for first time buyers. Of course they regret that decision later after they have bought something with a couple of thousand dollars worth of issues that they didn't realize it had.
 
#39 ·
I am still looking and learning . I have looked at one per week on the average. All of these Corvettes have stories to tell.

I just looked at a 2002 convertible that has 26k miles and a new aftermarket clutch and just had the Procharger supercharger removed -but still had the 60 pound injectors and the supercharger tune. Very nice cosmetic condition-but the mechanicals had me worried.

But it has 304 SS beautiful American Racing headers 1 7/8 primaries and Granatelli cold air intake. And Magnaflow exhaust and cats. And Pro Gold clutch-the stock clutch was destroyed after just 24k miles (?). Magnetic Red with Light Oak interior and top. Owner didnt know if it would pass emissions. All these aftermarket parts less than three years old.

Dampness on the rear aluminum member underneath the output of the differential on the driver's side. Engine was clean and spotless and all of the underhood aluminum was new looking--the underneath didn't look like it had been driven much in the rain. New looking battery. Very few rock chips on the leading edge of the Corvette. About three very small rock chips in the windshield. Light Oak top was very new looking.Very few wrinkles on the driver's seat.

Low mileage with beautiful cosmetics but worrisome history and three owners. Asking 22k firm.
 
#41 ·
I didn't realize all of these issues until I went out there to see it. The price was low for the model year and mileage. It does look nice and it is hard to believe that a previous owner would take such good care of the appearance and not of the clutch .

And I learn something more each time I look at an example of one of these Corvettes.

For example: I learned that there is a supposed electrical lockout of the reverse gear when the Corvette is traveling at a certain speed.

I am learning that most Corvette sellers very proud of these C5s and don't realize that the C5 that they paid 30k for 8 years ago hasnt retained all of it's value thru the years. And they seem to minimize their individual C5's problems.

I can't seem to find a very nice/clean accident free 2001+ C5 convertible,manual, with less than 40k miles for less than 23k dollars.
 
#42 ·
... I can't seem to find a very nice/clean accident free 2001+ C5 convertible,manual, with less than 40k miles for less than 23k dollars.
That may be a hard combination to find. Even if that is so, there are C5 Corvettes (like mine for example), that if I didn't tell you so, you wouldn't know a fraction of what I've done to it. The appearance is great inside and out. The engine is clean as a whistle and if there are any codes stored, they only have to do with the doors (I don't know why, but I seem to find a history code in one of them whenever I check). I just chalk it up to a temporary glitch because I haven't changed anything.

If I were you, I would be looking for a 'virgin' Corvette. That's what I call a C5 with no engine mods. Mileage doesn't bother me because these engines were designed to go 300,000 miles or better. Parts can be replaced and a 2004 year car is 9 years old right now. Stuff doesn't last forever and if I found a 2004 with 15K miles on it, I would be scared to put it through its paces because it was probably pampered too much. That car would probably have the original tires on it which are at this time, death traps. You go out and push a car like that and I wouldn't be surprised if you developed an oil leak or blew a tire. So one has to wonder, are you going to drive your car or are you looking for a garage queen?

The entire drive train is still available for these cars. Parts are really becoming affordable. You can even get a copy of the same GM service manual and the tools that every GM dealership has. A virgin C5 with 60,000 miles and no undercarriage damage means more to me than a pristine, low mileage C5 that is priced twice its value. If you can turn screws, that would be a smarter buy. The old saying, "use it or loose it", is very true with any car. You do more damage letting them sit than you do actually using them the way they were designed to be used.

So adjust the parameters that you think are important and you'll find that there are a lot of cars out there for you to choose from. This is the exact mindset that you should have if you are not planning on keeping the car forever. Get your thrills out of it and move on to the next. If you are making a permanent purchase, do as I said and find a virgin C5 with no significant undercarriage damage, along with signs that the owner took very good care of the car. The appearance of the engine bay and the professionalism of any repairs done to the car is my first hint of how a car has been maintained.

Swirled up paint can be fixed. Torn leather can be replaced. wear and tear happens but a modified engine can be a nightmare if you do not know the capabilities of the person doing the modification. If you visit enough forums and read enough threads, you will find out that there are people out here modifying the mess out of these cars and they don't have a clue as to how what they have done will impact the rest of the car. You do NOT want to get stuck with THAT car.
 
#43 ·
JM:

I agree with all you mentioned on the previous post.

Most owners of these C5 are proud and enthusiastic owners. They love their C5s and many seem to be selling because of necessity-divorce and such-or buying another newer C6 or C7.

I am not seeing that much difference between the well cared for C5 and the beat C5 in asking price.Mileage does seem to effect asking price. I would rather have the cosmetically outstanding C5 and not the beat up body of a high mileage one. I have always been willing to spend money on a vehicle if it looks outstanding. And-usually if the owner is so proud of the C5 that he takes the time and expense to keep appearances nice-will also take care of maintenance of the mechanical.

Cosmetic damage is more expensive to repair than some mechanical damage in many cases. And the mechanical damage is also more difficult to determine when inspecting for purchase.

I understand your point about mileage not being necessarily that important to driving a C5 that has been maintained mechanically. Your point is very valid and I have independently arrived at the same conclusion. I am finding that you can beat what was 50k dollar new C5 like it has no value at all as a daily driver. I cant believe that some of these owners really don't know how to maintain a vehicle!

But high mileage does have issues that a buyer should consider: Lower resale value and all mechanical parts of any vehicle has a finite life span and high mileage causes the buyer to consider the higher operating cost that will be involved in a shorter period of time.

I believe that looking for a C5 convertible in the winter has inherent advantages --the asking price will be lower than the middle of summer--especially here in the snowy Rocky Mountain area that I live .

But the down side of looking for a C5 in winter-is that the selection of C5s on the market is limited. And the reasonable asking prices have been bought quickly by lucky buyers.

I expect a larger number of C5s to flood the market after the first C7 is released on the market in late summer. I am saving each week for this C5 and will have more money to spend on it the longer I wait for "my" C5.

I suspect that the nicest C5s will be offered for sale in the fall/winter of 2013-when the C7 is in full production and the prices will seasonally fall because of the weather.
 
#44 ·
... Cosmetic damage is more expensive to repair than some mechanical damage in many cases.
I disagree. Cosmetic damage can be easily repaired by you. If it is new carpet or leather for the seats, there are some well documented instructions on this forum alone. Paint jacked up with swirls or scratches? Got that covered here too.

And the mechanical damage is also more difficult to determine when inspecting for purchase.
But that's the beauty of this forum. You haven't ran across anything that we haven't seen yet. All you have to do is describe the problem and I bet I can find a fix for you, as long as the car hasn't been modified.

If you are looking for a garage queen that you plan on treating like a garage queen, that's one thing. But if you're planning on actually enjoying the car, that's another story. Looking for a reasonably priced garage queen is like finding a 38 year old foxy woman with no kids and a master's degree making 6 figures who wants to quit her job, marry you and make a family of 6 kids.

Good luck with that. :laughing:
 
#45 ·
Garage Queens depreciate just like the beaters...:D

I was a telephone installer thirty years ago and I found all kinds of rare and desirable cars in people's garages-the garage queens are out there! And one will be come mine! :thumbsup:

I believe that finding a motivated seller is the secret.

I have been told by many sellers that they are getting few interested parties--even when the C5 is reasonably priced. Even when I walk away-I make sure that the seller has my email address and/or phone number if they should change their mind as to their minimum price.
 
#46 ·
I agree, but guys are much more realistic with their pricing on the beaters. Add to that, all beaters have not taken the same beating. Sorta like dating a $5 hooker or a $4000 a night escort. Only one has really been rode hard and put up wet. ;)
 
#47 · (Edited)
Sorta like dating a $5 hooker or a $4000 a night escort. Only one has really been rode hard and put up wet. ;)
You made me spill my popcorn with that remark! :rolling: And would have to concede to your apparent possible experience in that regard! :devil:

I haven't made an offer on any of the C5s that I have looked at so far. There has always been issues with the condition of the C5 that I don't want to have to handle. Price isn't the only determinate for me. I have the feeling that if I had-there would have been a sale in some cases.My impression is that most sellers ask 5-10 percent more than they will finally actually expect to sell the C5 for after negotiations.

Much like the pricing of used cars in dealerships-most really dont expect to sell for the advertised price. The advertised price is for impulsive uninformed suckers. :down:

I have never bought a vehicle for advertised price-new nor used.And rarely sold a vehicle for my asking price.

Seller motivation and negotiations and reasonable offers are the secret to a good buy.
 
#55 ·
Just get a nice stock or very lightly modified one. Then you can make it whatever you want it to be. So what if there are few minor repiars, the C5's out there may have low mileage but time itself still wears on things.

I have a 99 and am going through a few problem but I have to realize I decided to buy a 14 year old car and no matter how well it was taken care of certain things just break. Not to mention so far compared to my other cars its a pleasure to work on. (my 350Z took my buddy and I 5 hours to change the plugs and he was a pro at toyota)

I'll tell you this.. Even if I had major problems its my favorite car I've owned and I've had some badass machines too. 97 Supra Single turbo approx 500hp never tuned or dyno'd, highly modified Altima Se-r, then a modified 06 350Z. All great fast cars but for whatever reason this is just better and I have a feeling I'll always buy corvettes.
 
#56 ·
Just get a nice stock or very lightly modified one. Then you can make it whatever you want it to be. So what if there are few minor repairs, the C5's out there may have low mileage but time itself still wears on things.

I have a 99 and am going through a few problem but I have to realize I decided to buy a 14 year old car and no matter how well it was taken care of certain things just break. Not to mention so far compared to my other cars its a pleasure to work on. (my 350Z took my buddy and I 5 hours to change the plugs and he was a pro at toyota)

I'll tell you this.. Even if I had major problems its my favorite car I've owned and I've had some badass machines too. 97 Supra Single turbo approx 500hp never tuned or dyno'd, highly modified Altima Se-r, then a modified 06 350Z. All great fast cars but for whatever reason this is just better and I have a feeling I'll always buy corvettes.
I agree. These C5s are amazingly comfortable to drive--well placed gear shift lever even when the seat is all the way back. And very nice clutch-light and with wide progressive engagement. Love the four outlet exhaust and the low sloping hood and its very good view of the road. HUD and massive amounts of aluminum-cast and forged. Lots of engineering for a reasonable price! ;)

And it has the classic retractable headlights--that all previous Corvettes have had since MY 1963! Driving one of these C5s makes one realize the passion of it's designers! Low CD and high lateral acceleration! Impressive MPG and MPH. And better looking than it's younger C6 and C7 brothers-in my opinion! :thumbsup:

I wish I can find a good C5 that doesn't have a too high price. :rolleyes:. C5 owners just don't want to part from their C5s!

A sports car for the working man!
 
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