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Progression .....

16K views 93 replies 6 participants last post by  Junkman2008 
#1 · (Edited)
Just Another Night In C5 Dudes Garage......

Well the intake is off........



Getting her cleaned up......



Yep....the coil packs are off and on the bench getting cleaned up. Going to get new plugs and wires while I'm in there. I also found alot of fuel in the bottom of the intake runners so the injectors are going to the injector Dr. tomorrow to be tested and cleaned and given a tune up if they need it. Tomorrow afternoon I'll work on the drivers side.

:partyon:
 
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#53 ·
This is the new sensors going in. The nock and the cam position sensor and the oil pressure sending unit. The cam position sensor is the long one if you are unsure.



This is the difference between the new intake gaskets (blue) and the old ones (orange). Notice that the old ones are really squished too much and at the end of their usefulness even though they are reusable.




Now to get them installed and finish cleaning the intake and put it back on.

:partyon:
 
#57 · (Edited)
More questions on spark plug boots....

Ok. So I have decided on the MSD 8.5mm Super Conductors because of bang for the buck. I got them for $65 bucks and from what I have read they are good to go.

My question is on the spark plug wire protective boots like below.



Do they work? Do they really extend the life of the wires and protect them. Are they worth the $30 to get them?

Also- What plugs do you guys recommend?

Thanks.
 
#58 ·
Now you're starting to WASTE money. You have done nothing to your engine to warrant changing the BRAND of spark plugs, wires or anything else. As a matter of fact, some supposed "upgrades" that guys have done to their completely stock engine have resulted in negative performance related issues. The plugs, wires and coils on your engine were designed to go at least 100,000 miles. Don't let threads that you see of guys changing stuff on their stock engine seduce you into making the same mistake. After all, you have no clue as to their knowledge on engine design and performance. Stock worked just fine up to now and stock will be good for another 100,000 miles.

GO WITH STOCK ON YOUR STOCK ENGINE.
 
#59 ·
The MSD wires are good wires. The reason they are better is basic electrical theory.

The less resistance current has the more current will be transmitted. The factory wires are about 600 ohms. The MSD wires are about 50 ohms. The more current that is transmitted to the spark plug, the hotter the spark is going to be. this allows a more complete and faster burn of the air/fuel mixture. A more complete burn will result in more hp, increased mpg, and decreased emissions. You may not see any gains with just the wires, but the sum of the parts is greater than the individual part.

As for the GM engineers knowing best....All I gotta say is fuel level sending units, column lock, rocking chairs, piston rings, ect.... all of which are known screw-ups by GM engineers just on the C5....

As far as the wire covers go, they are a GOOD idea. Head degrades spark plug wires and boots. Heat also increases wire resistance. The more heat you can keep off your plug wires, the longer they will last and the better they will perform. Heat is typically the #1 killer of spark plug wires.
 
#60 ·
The MSD wires are good wires. The reason they are better is basic electrical theory.

The less resistance current has the more current will be transmitted. The factory wires are about 600 ohms. The MSD wires are about 50 ohms. The more current that is transmitted to the spark plug, the hotter the spark is going to be. this allows a more complete and faster burn of the air/fuel mixture. A more complete burn will result in more hp, increased mpg, and decreased emissions. You may not see any gains with just the wires, but the sum of the parts is greater than the individual part.
And to your theory, I'll say this. Z rated tires are the best performance tires that you can buy for your passenger car. Everything about a Z rated tire is better. I'll put a set of them on my Yugo and see how much better the car performs. Better does not always equal BETTER.

As for the GM engineers knowing best....All I gotta say is fuel level sending units, column lock, rocking chairs, piston rings, ect.... all of which are known screw-ups by GM engineers just on the C5....
Not knowing how to fix an issue is one thing. Attempting to ignore the problem or doing the least bit necessary to address the problem is typical large company tactics. I give you Toyota and their acceleration issue. Blame it on the floor mats. If you can design a car from the GROUND UP and have not one single issue with it, I would love to see that car. ;)

As far as the wire covers go, they are a GOOD idea. Head degrades spark plug wires and boots. Heat also increases wire resistance. The more heat you can keep off your plug wires, the longer they will last and the better they will perform. Heat is typically the #1 killer of spark plug wires.
Wires that have been subjected to a lot of heat will be brittle and hard. When I changed mine at a 100,000+ miles, they felt as pliable as the new ones. A few of them ohmed out close to the new ones so I kept them for testing purposes. As far as I see it, those covers are a waste of money on a stock engine.
 
#62 ·
Thanks all.

I have decided to skip the boots for now and keep the MSD wires and AC Delco plugs. This shows the MSDs with an original next to it. I like the red too....



I agree with Junkman that the original would be fine since I don't have any modifications but I do plan to add some performance mods in the near future so I wanted to go ahead with the MSDs and avoid more costs later in upgrading. The MSD ignition packs will probably be coming shortly after shorty headers at which time I will also get the boots.

So tonight and tomorrow I will be putting it back together and will try my first time of uploading a video of the first crank up afterward.

Thanks again.

:partyon:
 
#63 ·
The MSD ignition packs will probably be coming shortly after shorty headers at which time I will also get the boots.
I would research them, I know when I was there was a lot of talk about the truck coils putting out more current. If that is true, i do not know. I haven't looked into them in a while simply because of their cost.
 
#67 ·
It's back together!

Well here it is back together. I tried to do a video of the first start but my BB is not good for making videos. So here are the pictures. Cranked right up and ran like a top. No lights or DTCs. Warmed up and then smoked off all the cleaner I used than was perfect. Going to pull it out tomorrow and clean the condenser as best I can and then put the rest back together.







:partyon:
 
#68 ·
Did you remember to do the idle learn procedure? Kinda nice to turn that key and hear it fire the first time with NO issues, huh! That self gratifying feeling will make you tackle the next repair with no hesitation. :thumbsup:
 
#69 ·
Did you remember to do the idle learn procedure? Kinda nice to turn that key and hear it fire the first time with NO issues, huh! That self gratifying feeling will make you tackle the next repair with no hesitation. :thumbsup:
I had the battery disconnected for the last two weeks but when I get it out of the garage today I will do the PCM reset you have in extremely useful information. Thats what you are referring to right?

And yes. It was nice to hear it crank up and purr like a kiten. It has been 12 years since I did any real vehicle work besides the occasional starter or alternator, and it feels good.

:partyon:
 
#71 ·
No on the gasket or on the link. I guess the PCM reset isn't the same thing?

The throttle body gasket will get replaced next week.

Then the new clutch and billet fly wheel will go in!
:partyon:
 
#73 ·
Well, its all back together.



I did the idle learn procedures and the PCM reset and took her for a test drive. She ran like a scalded dog! Much better than before.

I also found the x pipe has been removed and a straight through to pure duals has been put in. I am unsure of the muffs becasue they are so dirty but tomorrow I will get it cleaned up and on a lift to inspect the rest of the drive train.

One piece of bad news is the condensor would not blow clean no matter how I tried to clean it. Water hose, compressed air, spray cleaner, all failed. So I think I will just pick up an new one and have the stealership suck it down and then I'll put it in and then have them fill it back up. Good part was the radiator looked clean. Thats good right.

Expect another thread soon with the complete Monster clutch instal with the billet fly wheel.

Thanks to all of you for your advice and humor.


:partyon:
 
#74 ·
You can get a mom & pop shop to do the evac and recovery. Much cheaper than the dealer. Just go to a reputable AC shop. The machine does all the work. It's really hard for the technician to screw it up.
 
#84 ·
Stock Pulls On Dyno

OK. Car is running great all tuned up and ready to dyno. Here are the pics and numbers from my 1999 C5 with 141,xxx miles on it. The tech who did the pulls said it did great for the age and miles.





I know its hard to read but the MAX = 326 HP 311 Ft-Lb

Not too shabby for an $8K car. Now to start the build up to reach the 450 HP mark.

Long tube headers first with high flow cats and exhaust. Then back to tune and dyno again.

:partyon:
 
#85 · (Edited)
Darn PO420 H C code again...

Ok....so today while out riding with the wife and the top off the check engine light pops on...:WTF....so I guess the new O2 sensors didn't fix it and it really is the cat.

So I am going to get the bypass plugs because inthe futer I will have long tubes and no cats anyway. But until then, anybody got any ideas what to maybe pour into the go juice tank to maybe clean them...

I have read about laquer thinner but am troubled about pouring that harsh of a chemicle into the tank.

Any good over the counter fixes, or just stare at it until the bypass plugs come in....:D

Kewl part......today I dropped that bad boy from 5500 RPM and traction control off with the wife! We both grinned so hard it hurt....I love this woman!:partyon:
 
#87 ·
Why are you guessing at which code is illuminating the MIL when all you have to do is look at the codes??? :huh:

Hi Junkman :buhbye:.

I know its a PO420 H C from pulling the codes.

I reset it after installing new O2 sensors hoping it was a slow switching sensor but it came back. So after the tune up and new sensors I can almost bet its the cat.

I am going to pull the injectors and swap sides on them and see if it switches codes to the other side. If an injector is sticky it could throw this code as well if its dumping too much fuel on that side but I doubt thats the problem.

An old tech I new used to pull a plug wire to get alot of raw fuel into the cats to heat them up over normal conditions to burn them off but I don't recomend that as I have also seen them shatter and rattle like an sob after that too. I would rather live with the light until the new exhaust instead of listen to a rattle. BUt anyway, if an injector is sticking alot of the fuel gets burned in combustion (running rich) but the rest hits the cat and over carbons the cats...so thats the last thing I will try before I just live with the light until the first tune with the new exhaust.

:partyon:
 
#88 ·
You can't perform the diagnostic procedure to properly trouble-shoot this issue without a Tech II. Right now, you're guessing at what the problem is. Did you perform the Powertrain On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check? The Powertrain OBD System Check is an organized approach to identifying a concern created by an electronic engine control system malfunction. The Powertrain OBD System Check is the starting point for any driveability concern diagnosis. The Powertrain OBD System Check directs the service technician to the next logical step in diagnosing a concern. Understanding and using the table correctly will reduce the diagnostic time and prevent the replacement of good parts. That's straight from the service manual.

Personally, I would never replace such an expensive part as a catalytic converter without first knowing that it was bad. A $3 part? No problem, bit never something expensive.
 
#89 ·
You can't perform the diagnostic procedure to properly trouble-shoot this issue without a Tech II. Right now, you're guessing at what the problem is. Did you perform the Powertrain On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check? The Powertrain OBD System Check is an organized approach to identifying a concern created by an electronic engine control system malfunction. The Powertrain OBD System Check is the starting point for any driveability concern diagnosis. The Powertrain OBD System Check directs the service technician to the next logical step in diagnosing a concern. Understanding and using the table correctly will reduce the diagnostic time and prevent the replacement of good parts. That's straight from the service manual.

I did compression test when I baught it and it checked out good.

You already know the rest of the story (new OP, knock, cam sensor, intake gaskets, plugs and wires) so even without putting it on a scanner (which I dont have access to any way) I know its either a fuel or cat problem now. I was replacing the O2s anyway because they were at 141,000 miles. Should have been replaced ages ago and looks like one was, but thats neither here or there now. Just have to see if its the fuel but most likely not, and will be that side cat.

Personally, I would never replace such an expensive part as a catalytic converter without first knowing that it was bad. A $3 part? No problem, bit never something expensive.

I'm not going to replace the cats, I'm going throw them out and put high flow ones on in the near futer any way. So what I was saying was that this whole problem is moot if in fact it is not the fuel ( or sticky injector).

:partyon:
 
#90 ·
Well, I put the Corsas on. Now the car is ANGRY! :devil:

I like it. I can hardly wait until the rest of the exhaust is done. The headers and high flows. See other thread.



The finished product.



Much better looking than the stock ones.

:partyon:
 
#93 ·
The Kooks LT headers are on. The Kooks 3" down pipe with high flows are on. The Corsa Mufflers have been on. The CompCams cam is in. The new high performance springs and push rods are in. The new Cloyes Racing timing chain and gear set are in. The new High Volume oil pump is in. Just have to get the crank pulley back on and start putting the rest of the accessories back on. Then start it and run it through a few heat cycles and then to the tune shop .






New springs and caps verses the old.





:partyon:
 
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