Does Corvette Need to Continue to HP War?

XQIZT · 11-02-2009, 08:54 AM

Before I get jumped, this isn’t about making the Corvette “green.” I’m thinking outloud here about where the “refinement” dollars should be spent on future Corvette generations (and even the final few model years of the C6).

We’ve all seen the magazine articles about what car costing 2, 3 and 4 times as much as our beloved Corvette got beat up on by our Bowling Green monster. And it’s been happening for YEARS. “Corvette…best bang for your buck.” But, for the average buyer, is the most important “stat” always going to be HP, especially at the numbers we have now? Currently, we have 3 flavors: 430HP, 505HP and 638HP for stock coupe/vert/GS, Z06 and ZR1, respectively. Where does it stop? Lets be honest with ourselves, would you have not bought your current C6 base coupe if it only had 400HP? Would you even know if HP gremlins snuck into your garage at night and stole those 30 extra ponies?

Here’s my point. Clearly, Corvette performs with the world’s elite automobiles. Can we take a year off from the HP battle, make improvements elsewhere by spending the refinement dollars in other ways and thereby making the Corvette desirable for other reasons?

Can we find a way to produce a classier interior without sending the price into the Ferrari, et al stratosphere? Lets face it, that’s been the biggest knock on Corvette for decades; cheap interior (although it is getting better).

Can we find a way to make the exterior paint even more flawless, without hiring Chip Foose to shoot every body panel himself?

We can still have the “wow-you’ve-got-how-much-horsepower??” Corvette for the people who really really use it; just make it a special order situation. But I am envisioning a design concept that goes in cycles: motor, interior, exterior, etc., etc., repeat. This way, the price doesn’t skyrocket to something that is unattainable for the casual owner and at the same time all aspects of the Corvette move towards meeting all of the world-class standards.

cobra_4 · 11-02-2009, 09:17 AM

I think that would be a good idea. The HP numbers are pretty much at there peak imo as far as useable street numbers.

walleyfisher · 11-02-2009, 09:24 AM

The lure for corvette since its re-birth ('55) )the first year the V8 was offered, What saved Corvette from extinction was horse power, People bought Mercury"s and Caddillacs because of horse power. If they make the Corvette mediocre in the horse power department but "fix" the cheap interior, Corvette would lose its idenity and fade away just like the Camaro did. People buy Ferrari not just for the horse power but for the reason most people cannot afford one. These cars have excellent fit and finish but are a maintance nightmares.

Corvette has to say on top of developing dependable horse power (with gas mileage) that (most) people can afford

Producing a supercar at half the price of the world recognized brands is bragging rights for future sales which is hard to put a value to just like factory racing

Without the new ZR-1 what would a prospective Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Audi, or Mercedes buyer look at that GM offers?

RTGordon · 11-02-2009, 09:29 AM

I appreciate where you're going with this concept, but I feel that the car has already gone too far in some ways with all the widgets that have been introduced. I think the C6 interior looks just fine, even compared with most of the European cars I've driven lately. My C5 could have used a little more fit and finish in that regard, but after a certain point it becomes moot. If I'm looking at the quality and finish on the interior of a car, I don't break out my dial calipers. I LOOK at it. If I don't see any obvious gaps or problems, it looks good. If I don't see a bunch of nasty glare off of pieces that are too shiny, I like it. I don't need a bunch of electronic junk. I don't need push-button doors or On-Star or a Nav system.

I'm a little more track oriented, but I am going to try to look at this from a street car perspective. It needs a nice looking, comfortable interior with good sound control and a decent stereo. The HUD is a nice feature. Adjustability in the seats for differing drivers is good. Thoughtfully located controls and other useable spaces is important.

I like my old school Delco stereo. It has big, easy to see buttons instead of tiny cryptic pictures like all the "high-end" radios. I'd like it to play my MP3s, but that's about all I'd change. I like the touch screen controls in the C6, too.

MLNEMVette · 11-02-2009, 02:28 PM

I think any smart auto manufacturer needs to balance the refinements it makes in performance and quality. Something GM has actually been fairly good at when it comes to the Corvette, in my book. Stop the HP gains? I don't think so. Keep increasing the horsepower levels and fix the other things at the same time. GM is finally getting the Corvette back to where it is desirable on many levels. The base models are quite affordable for a larger audience. And the Z06 sits at a level where it can create a goal for a base model owner who might be able to save up for a trade-up down the line. So, even current Corvette owners can dream of a better car, and it still be a Corvette and not some Ferrari, Porsche, or other Euro-Exotic ride.

XQIZT · 11-02-2009, 02:48 PM

Right on...I'm not saying cease HP developments altogether and be complacent with where we are. But how much more horsepower does one need to get to work, or the grocery store? As long as it remains competitive, I think that the focus can be on other aspects that are currently lagging. I haven't seen any gripes about the power of the car, but I have seen gripes about the interior "feel" and "look" or other aspects of the car, wholly unrelated to power.

SimpleLT · 11-02-2009, 03:11 PM

I'm sure a lot of enthusiasts would love to see a better handling and lighter Vette with a small sacrifice to horsepower.

Take a look at the Lotus Exige 260. Less than 300 HP but it's weighing in at about 2000 lbs. It could be quite formidable on the track.

But, to make sales, the Vette will have to stay in the horsepower race, it's essential. The average Vette owner probably wants more the 'hey I've got a 400+ HP sports car' than the 'I've got a world class competing track star.'

In America, it's a pissing contest, I could be wrong, but those are my 2 cents. Don't misinterpret me though, I'd love to have an 8k screaming 400 HP Vette that can weigh in at 2900 lbs.

MR BRNS C6 · 11-02-2009, 03:57 PM

More horse power please & don't have the C7 looking like that Transformer Vette!

BonneRisque · 11-02-2009, 06:42 PM

The car is one fine machine

It's a world class automobile
and pure ****americana****
Gm needs to stay on trac with it by continuing to improve performance as well as all the luxury items that the car now posesses.

I would like to see them improve the electronics found on the car, and add some more ponies

you can never have to many ponies

Bonne

iburke · 11-02-2009, 07:05 PM

The people that give GM the profit I know are the polishers and the people that don't like the plastic look. And people that could care less if it weighed in at 4000 lbs as Long as it has 500 or 600 hp badge on the side, because they aren't going to the track any way.

So let them have their bling. But at least bring back the delete options to us that like to go to the track. Delete trim, delete carpet and padding, delete radio, delete A/C. Let us buy the car we want with out the $8000 worth of leather in it. Cars are getting to be like TV. You have to buy the $70 package to get the $10 worth of channels you watch.

XQIZT · 11-02-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iburke

The people that give GM the profit I know are the polishers and the people that don't like the plastic look. And people that could care less if it weighed in at 4000 lbs as Long as it has 500 or 600 hp badge on the side, because they aren't going to the track any way.

So let them have their bling. But at least bring back the delete options to us that like to go to the track. Delete trim, delete carpet and padding, delete radio, delete A/C. Let us buy the car we want with out the $8000 worth of leather in it. Cars are getting to be like TV. You have to buy the $70 package to get the $10 worth of channels you watch.

then you can have the best of both worlds...pure bred race car AND world class luxury...and the buyer gets to choose the flavor.

new2006Zo6 · 11-03-2009, 09:27 PM

Yes hp is a deal with vette . But when it gets to be 100Gs or over for a zr1 I think thats a step out of range for a few people. At these times maybe Z06 is a little out of range for some people. I say keep the $ figure down stay with the same hp out put maybe work on interor some more body style is still good to go. See where sales will go then. I know i would buy a Zr1 if it was under a 100Gs.

DarthAWM · 11-07-2009, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XQIZT

Right on...I'm not saying cease HP developments altogether and be complacent with where we are. But how much more horsepower does one need to get to work, or the grocery store? As long as it remains competitive, I think that the focus can be on other aspects that are currently lagging. I haven't seen any gripes about the power of the car, but I have seen gripes about the interior "feel" and "look" or other aspects of the car, wholly unrelated to power.

As a follower of the car mags, I sincerely believe the main factor in the relative low rating of the vette's fit, finish, and feel is the Chevrolet Bowtie. Nobody in the Corvette's price range is not using plastics in their interiors. Not Mercedes, not BMW, not Porsche, not Audi, not Lexus, not infinity. Yet you never hear about a poor feel or plastiky appearence from them. The real problem is too many writers and editors have been in the business long enought to remember and still blame Chevy for the C4's interior and its other sins from the 70's and 80's. Add to that, it is an easy cheap shot to say the GM interior is not all it could be. After all the designers could always have usesd a finer plastic grain, more leather, more carbon fiber, more metals, etc, but price concers are always an issue(not like price never enters the minds of foreign desiners either).

JBsZ0666 · 11-07-2009, 06:28 AM

I believe the LS3 should get direct injection for the 5 to 8 percent improvement in fuel economy and hp...

I also am a firm believer that a dual clutch sequential transmission should be offered on Corvette..

Thats the next car I purchase...

As far as the interior..I believe the 4Lt offers the interior option if someone wants to pay for it.. (personally I'd save the cash for gas! ) but thats just my opinion..

I will pay for DSG and direct injection. Those are two incremental improvements that will get me to buy a new Corvette Grand sport....

Other than that? I'd say the corvette could be successful for many many years to come..

Longtimer · 11-13-2009, 11:12 AM

Certainly the world is changing drastically - economically, legislatively, and perhaps culturally too.

The Corvette is first and foremost a Halo Sports Car for The NEW GM. Its mission statement is to over excel within its niche while projecting an image of quality, dependability and reasonable cost of ownership. It must also make a profit without overly, negatively impacting The NEW GM efficiency (re: MPG & Emissions) image or CAFE.

Therefore the performance numbers for the vette CANNOT drop without the perception of failure – no mater how many other aspects of the car improve.

How do you offer a better 638HP Corvette? Make it 640, 650, 700? I don't think so - unless you own a tire store. Make it better by doing more with what you have.

A lower HP Porsche out accelerates a 436HP vette to 60 MPH because it has all that weight out back to assist traction. Only so much can be done (Launch Control and tires) to hook up HP/Tq with the current chassis. In the end Physics will rule.

Today's 436HP provides outstanding performance numbers, especially in the GS model. However, improvements in power to weight ratios and front back weight distribution could make that same HP perform even better - while improving the efficiency of the car.

Certainly powertrain development must continue. But, IMO, refinement and chassis development have greater potential performance contributions for Corvette.

I don't think a Rear Mid engine is the only answer, but it is the most obvious. Should the engine re-join the tranny out back and risk loosing all utility of our icon? I don't think a Lamborghini layout would be acceptable to Vette-dom. Nor would a hidden-never-seen-engine-boxster arrangement work for us. Don't even mention the absurdity of 911 packaging (said with grudging amazement and a nod to Porsche engineers).

The C7 has major challenges. It must satisfy its mission statement from GM, entice a new generation of Euro/Asia lovers, improve efficiency and performance and do all of this without loosing its heritage or alienating perhaps the largest auto "fan" base in the world.

It's no wonder that the C7 has been on again off again. Much is at risk - besides the jobs of its consumers.