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Old 04-07-2010, 05:18 PM   #1
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Rear tire stick out more on one side than the other ?

Guys:

Just wanted to let you know about an experience I recently had. Maybe it can help you out. :

I have owned my 2004 C5Z06 for 6 years now. I got it new. When it was new I noticed that the drivers rear tire stuck out 1/4" more than the passenger side. It was not that noticeable so I did not worry about it. I added my wider 11" CCW's that stick out just a little on both sides. That's when I really noticed the extra 1/4". I did not like it but it was not hurting anything so I left it alone.

Recently after I added my Coil overs I started to notice a little bit of tire shine on the inside of my rear fender. With the coil overs longer travel my tire was touching my inner fender lip. Now this issue got my full attention. I did not want to damage my rear quarter for sure. I started to search around about this issue and found very little. I then found a post in the C6 Z06 section about my exact issue. He has a new C6 Z06 and the dealer said they can not fit it. I thought that sounded like complete BS.

In that post there was a fellow that said he fixed his car. I started to PM him about the issue, and how he fixed his car. Thanks to him I got my rear set up so that my drivers side tire only sticks out a little over 1/32" more than my pass tire sticks out. It was 8/32" before I fixed it. This should cure my inner fender rubbing too !

I found out that the rear cradle has alignment pins press fitted into it. The alignment pins insert into the frame during assembly as they mount the cradle to the frame. What I found out is that the hole in the frame that the alignment pins insert into are TWICE the size of the alignment pin itself ! No wonder all of our car's are a little different.

This is an issue on C5's and C6's....

What I did to fix my issue:

1.) Raise the rear of the car with jacks on both sides (not under the back lifting the rear cradle). Place jack stands under the car for safety.
2.) Remove the 2x bolts holding the rear diff to the cradle. (re-tighten to 37ft/lbs after).
3.) Loosen the 4x bolts holding the cradle to the frame (re-tighten to 81ft/lbs after). Let the cradle down approx 1/4" or so.
4.) I was then able to use a pry bar to push the cradle to one side that got me to the position where I wanted it. Measure the wheel distance on both sides frequently to see your progress.
5.) Try to make sure you push the cradle over straight. Measure to make sure one side wheel is not pushed to the front of the car, where the other side towards the back of the car. Keep everything as square as you can.
6.) Note... I'm not sure I understand the logic in this, but to make my drivers tire move in towards the center of the car, I had to push my cradle towards the drivers side. Don't ask me why... I don't know. haha. I just know it worked.
7.) R2e-tighten your 4x cradle bolts to 81ft/lbs, and re-install your 2x diff bolts and re-tighten to 37ft/lbs.
8.) Lower your car, and verify your changes.
9.) Get an alignment ! ! !

Hope this helps someone !
Toque
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:19 PM   #2
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Well there's a new one. Never heard of this.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Well there's a new one. Never heard of this.
Searching for information this week I found 4x folks with this issue. My C5Z, another C5, and 2x C6 Z06's. I think folks just don't look that closely to notice it. Mine was a little more off than the norm. With the huge holes in the frame that the cradle alignment pins go into I'm surprised more folks have not complained about it.

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Old 04-07-2010, 07:03 PM   #4
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Awsome info

Thanks for the heads up


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Old 04-07-2010, 07:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toque View Post
Searching for information this week I found 4x folks with this issue. My C5Z, another C5, and 2x C6 Z06's. I think folks just don't look that closely to notice it. Mine was a little more off than the norm. With the huge holes in the frame that the cradle alignment pins go into I'm surprised more folks have not complained about it.

Toque
I love your wheels by the way. Gorgeous.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:13 PM   #6
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I love your wheels by the way. Gorgeous.
Thank you Patrick ! Coming from you that's a HUGE compliment.

Cheers !

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Old 04-07-2010, 07:13 PM   #7
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When I got my 4 wheel alignment my rear end was out by 10 degree's yea I can believe what you are saying.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toque View Post
Guys:

6.) Note... I'm not sure I understand the logic in this, but to make my drivers tire move in towards the center of the car, I had to push my cradle towards the drivers side. Don't ask me why... I don't know. haha. I just know it worked.
The top of the spindle(and hub) is connected to the frame with the upper A arms.

The bottom of the spindle is connected to the cradle with the lower A arms

When you pry ed the cradle over, you actually moved the lower a arm out which moves the top of the wheel in.

Vice-Versa on the other side
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DRUSH View Post
The top of the spindle(and hub) is connected to the frame with the upper A arms.

The bottom of the spindle is connected to the cradle with the lower A arms

When you pry ed the cradle over, you actually moved the lower a arm out which moves the top of the wheel in.

Vice-Versa on the other side
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks ! I knew someone would know why....

All I know is that I know I need a 4 wheel alignment...

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Old 04-08-2010, 06:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Well there's a new one. Never heard of this.
So far 3x more C5's have said they have the same issue and just let it go. I think I opened a can of worms and people are looking more closely at there car. There is so much play in the rear cradle I'm not surprised...

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Old 04-09-2010, 04:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DRUSH View Post
The top of the spindle(and hub) is connected to the frame with the upper A arms.

The bottom of the spindle is connected to the cradle with the lower A arms

When you pry ed the cradle over, you actually moved the lower a arm out which moves the top of the wheel in.

Vice-Versa on the other side
I have been thinking about what you said. It makes perfect sense of course.

Relating it to my situation.....
I tried to first move my cradle towards my passenger side (since my drivers tire stuck out more). I noticed that my drivers tire stuck out more than before as I did this. Confused at this, I decided to move the cradle towards the drivers side and this brought my drivers tire in towards the car's center (I was measuring the top of the tire).

I am now wondering if both my rear tires are now tilted to the right (looking from back of car). What I mean is that since I moved my cradle to the drivers side, are both my rear tires now tilted where the tops are more towards the passenger side, and the bottoms are more towards the drivers side ?

If that is the case, then when I get an alignment will the alignment shop straighten up both rear tires.... and my drivers tire will stick out even more than before ? (Since my cradle is actually moved towards the drivers side)

Should I have moved my cradle towards the passenger side ? This would have left my drivers tire sticking out even more than originally, and my passenger tire sticking in more than original. But when the alignment shop straightens up both wheels they will be even ?

I hope this makes sense...

Thanks!
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toque View Post
I have been thinking about what you said. It makes perfect sense of course.

Relating it to my situation.....
I tried to first move my cradle towards my passenger side (since my drivers tire stuck out more). I noticed that my drivers tire stuck out more than before as I did this. Confused at this, I decided to move the cradle towards the drivers side and this brought my drivers tire in towards the car's center (I was measuring the top of the tire).

I am now wondering if both my rear tires are now tilted to the right (looking from back of car). What I mean is that since I moved my cradle to the drivers side, are both my rear tires now tilted where the tops are more towards the passenger side, and the bottoms are more towards the drivers side ?

If that is the case, then when I get an alignment will the alignment shop straighten up both rear tires.... and my drivers tire will stick out even more than before ? (Since my cradle is actually moved towards the drivers side)

Should I have moved my cradle towards the passenger side ? This would have left my drivers tire sticking out even more than originally, and my passenger tire sticking in more than original. But when the alignment shop straightens up both wheels they will be even ?

I hope this makes sense...

Thanks!
Toque


Did you check the tire wear pattern to see if the tire was wearing on the OUTSIDE EDGE on the wheel that you felt was sticking out too far ?
I suppose you used the TOP of the tire in relation to the fender well as your 'Reference Point'.

Perhaps you should have taken a CAMBER measurement before you decided to move anything.

A simple bubble level from the Depot could have served as a reference.
When the alignment shop get's thru it 'may' be back like it was before you started.
You'd need to park the car on a known level surface and then check the camber on BOTH sides.

One cannot move just one of the mounting points without affecting CAMBER or TOE.
In your case sounds like CAMBER was used to get TOP of the tire where you WANTED it.... not necessarily where it SHOULD be for proper alignment.

"COULD" be the opposite side needed to be moved.......

I ain't saying they come from the factory perfect but those GM engineers aren't too shabby.

There are some basic ALIGNMENT principles going on here which you may want to study up on and understand.

It's not too complex. you only have 3 primary angles and then the 'Thrust Angle' to be concerned with.
Matter of fact, on the back it's just 2 angles and the 'Thrust Angle'.
CAMBER, TOE, THRUST ANGLE. They are all 'interelated'.... change one and the other two change.

You can 'HOME BREW' the CAMBER and TOE but I haven't figured out how to set the thrust angle with a set of strings and a tape measure.
Probably need a LASER LEVEL that can project the extended line of the wheel/tire to some point ahead of the vehicle....
The spec. is in DEGREES also....

Anyone sucessfully setting their own thrust angle with a home brew alignment rig?
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VetNutJim View Post


Did you check the tire wear pattern to see if the tire was wearing on the OUTSIDE EDGE on the wheel that you felt was sticking out too far ?
I suppose you used the TOP of the tire in relation to the fender well as your 'Reference Point'.

Perhaps you should have taken a CAMBER measurement before you decided to move anything.
Alignment before was perfect. Tire wear is perfect and had it done a year ago. Yea I have been measuring from the top of the tire to fender well. being very detailed... VERY detailed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VetNutJim View Post
A simple bubble level from the Depot could have served as a reference.
When the alignment shop get's thru it 'may' be back like it was before you started.
You'd need to park the car on a known level surface and then check the camber on BOTH sides.
I hit this with my 4 ft bubble level for measurements, and my tape measure. I make measurements in the 1/32". I measure in the Mils at work so this is easy for me. My garage floor is very level, and I measure after a drive, and again 12 or more hours later to see if it changes. I have been VERY detailed about this. I'm no pro, but I'm no amateur either.

I got mine aligned Wed. I'm a little disappointed. I used to stick out 8/32" more on my drivers side. Now with the cradle move, and alignment.... my drivers side still sticks out 6/32". Its better but no where close like I was hoping for.

I'm not sure why there are so many C5's and C6's with this issue. People are coming out of the woodwork PM'ing me that they have this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VetNutJim View Post
One cannot move just one of the mounting points without affecting CAMBER or TOE.
In your case sounds like CAMBER was used to get TOP of the tire where you WANTED it.... not necessarily where it SHOULD be for proper alignment.

"COULD" be the opposite side needed to be moved.......

I ain't saying they come from the factory perfect but those GM engineers aren't too shabby.

There are some basic ALIGNMENT principles going on here which you may want to study up on and understand.

It's not too complex. you only have 3 primary angles and then the 'Thrust Angle' to be concerned with.
Matter of fact, on the back it's just 2 angles and the 'Thrust Angle'.
CAMBER, TOE, THRUST ANGLE. They are all 'interelated'.... change one and the other two change.

You can 'HOME BREW' the CAMBER and TOE but I haven't figured out how to set the thrust angle with a set of strings and a tape measure.
Probably need a LASER LEVEL that can project the extended line of the wheel/tire to some point ahead of the vehicle....
The spec. is in DEGREES also....

Anyone sucessfully setting their own thrust angle with a home brew alignment rig?
You make some good points above. I'm just not sure what the solution is. I'm sure many of us with this issue would like to know.

I'm wondering if its either 1.) Body slightly off center in the rear (from factory like that). 2.) Upper A arm is too long and sticking out the drivers wheel (MFG defect).

Who knows....

Thanks !
Toque
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:43 AM   #14
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I have also added CCW 505a 19x10 frt and 19x11.5 Rears and have noticed the Drivers Rear wheel was protruding as you stated...... Im so glad that there is a fix for this as well because I will be adding PFADTS coil-overs in the near future. Thanks Toque
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:03 PM   #15
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I have also added CCW 505a 19x10 frt and 19x11.5 Rears and have noticed the Drivers Rear wheel was protruding as you stated...... Im so glad that there is a fix for this as well because I will be adding PFADTS coil-overs in the near future. Thanks Toque
See... here is another one with the same issue.

Better check my post above. Cradle move did not work for me. The alignment after I moved the cradle basically put things back where they were.

Its either a body mounted to frame issue, or the upper A arm on my drivers side is too long.

If anyone finds the reason on this please let me know.

Thanks !
Toque
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