Can a C3 compete with a C6 Z06? Video added 8/10/12

[iburke]

Can a C3 compete with a C6 Z06? That was the question some one ask a year or so ago. And if yes at what cost.

So I set out to find out. Including the cost of the car I set myself a budget of 30K and I am well below that figure.

Here is what I have so far.



1971 Corvette coupe
383 ci sbc
Eagle rotating Assembly
KB 18cc dished pistons
Comp forced induction cam
MSD 6AL ignition
MSD boost timing control
Edelbrock 750 CFM carb.
Holly 144 blower
AFR heads
Oil cooler
Long tube headers
3" collectors
2.5" exhaust



NV3500 5 speed trans.
3.08 rear end
C5 rims and tires.



Front suspension VB&P
Rack and pinion steering with hydro boost
Dual mount 8 pt. adj. transverse spiring
1.125" anti sway bar
Tubular off set A arms
QA1 single adj. shocks
Ploy Bushings
C5 rotors and calipers
Hawk pads



Rear suspension VB&P
Dual mount 8 pt. adj. transverse spiring
No sway bar
Off set trailing arms
Adj. smart struts
QA1 single adj. shocks
Ploy Bushings
Rear brake bias adj. valve
C3 calipers and rotors
Hawk pads



Holly 14 lb. 95 GPH fuel pump
fuel pressure regulator.



Hand built Cold air cowl induction hood.
Aux. elect. fan
HEI distributor



Custom built Dash
Sparco seat
5 pt harness.



Roll Cage. Coming as soon as I complete my TIG welding class.

[Patrick]

[riggs 74]

If it can't, you would defiantly have fun trying with a setup like that.

Riggs

[Dan85Vette]

Looks great Ivan! Can't wait to see the roll cage come together.

Great talking with ya earlier

[MIKE80]

A man with a plan Nice! Got any pics of the interior, under the hood, or suspension?

[Turbo84]

Well, there's a couple things a C6Z has that most C3s don't.

1) A ton of tire width, and wider track, under flared fenders. It's been my experience that tires are 90% of the "secret" to good lap times. How much tire can you get under your fenders?

2) Horsepower (500+). Rare in most C3s, but attainable.

3) Light weight. With some parts stripping or a bunch of light material substitution a C3 can get well below the weight a C6. Light weight in a C3 helps compensate for smaller tires or sub-500 power levels.

4) Weight distribution. I'm not impressed with the weight distribution of a C3 (particularly L/R), and I have to believe that a C6 was designed with more focus on where the weight was placed.

There's a hundred additional minor items, but the above stuff seems to be the major contributors IMO.

I hope I'm right, or otherwise I've wasted a lot of time and effort tweaking a hundred things on my car.

[rpol98]

IMHO and only that:

i think there's only so far that you can take the C3 with bolt-ons. i'd guess the rear "trailing arm" suspension geometry is a serious limiting factor, being used since 1963, replaced in 1984 by the much-more capable multi-link IRS in the C4, now a favorite with hot rod chassis mfr's. although I still think the C3 iron differential housing can take more abuse than a Dana 44. Metalurgy has come a long way since, though.

Greenwood fixed the rear suspension shortcomings with some serious welding, fabrication & redesign on his 1970's era legendary racers, and those probably represent the epitome of C3 suspension technology.

Dick Guldstrand offers a weld-in 5-link conversion for the C3 which probably gets you in the ballpark.

otherwise you're comparing 50-year old technology with the current state-of-the-art. it's a serious handicap.

it would be interesting to see what a Greenwood racecar (w/ alum BBC, Kinsler, etc) could do at the Nurburgring for a lap time. did it ever run there?

please don't get me wrong on this, I myself own 2 C3's, so I'm not slamming C3's. and my GF owns a C4 (i get to soup it up ) but even on a good day, I know my 540 BBC with all kinds of suspension hop-ups, lightening tricks, probably couldn't hold a candle to an idiot-driven C6 Z06, which, when the price for used 2008 Z06 drops low enough, that's my plan. it'll be a while, but in the meantime, i'm definitely enjoying the hell out of my 540BB C3.

[Curby]

Active Handling and Traction Control in the Z06 REALLY help make that an exceptional track car.

You have done a lot to that car, and it should be a super blast to drive on or off the track, but I think you need more tire contact area, and more brake mass to be competitive on the track with the Z06.

[Spiderpat]

Awesome Ivan.

[johnnyjaws]

ALL YOU SHOWED me was pics of the car not the motor

[Metalkid]

Originally Posted by rpol98

IMHO and only that:

i think there's only so far that you can take the C3 with bolt-ons. i'd guess the rear "trailing arm" suspension geometry is a serious limiting factor, being used since 1963, replaced in 1984 by the much-more capable multi-link IRS in the C4, now a favorite with hot rod chassis mfr's. although I still think the C3 iron differential housing can take more abuse than a Dana 44. Metalurgy has come a long way since, though.

Greenwood fixed the rear suspension shortcomings with some serious welding, fabrication & redesign on his 1970's era legendary racers, and those probably represent the epitome of C3 suspension technology.

Dick Guldstrand offers a weld-in 5-link conversion for the C3 which probably gets you in the ballpark.

otherwise you're comparing 50-year old technology with the current state-of-the-art. it's a serious handicap.

it would be interesting to see what a Greenwood racecar (w/ alum BBC, Kinsler, etc) could do at the Nurburgring for a lap time. did it ever run there?

please don't get me wrong on this, I myself own 2 C3's, so I'm not slamming C3's. and my GF owns a C4 (i get to soup it up ) but even on a good day, I know my 540 BBC with all kinds of suspension hop-ups, lightening tricks, probably couldn't hold a candle to an idiot-driven C6 Z06, which, when the price for used 2008 Z06 drops low enough, that's my plan. it'll be a while, but in the meantime, i'm definitely enjoying the hell out of my 540BB C3.

Upgrade the rear with some upper strut rods a' la Giovanni's 6-Link (like I did!) and I'll bet you get much better results than a C4 5-link setup. Maintaining contact patch might compensate for the differential in tire width discussed above.

[Metalkid]

Originally Posted by Curby

Active Handling and Traction Control in the Z06 REALLY help make that an exceptional track car.

You have done a lot to that car, and it should be a super blast to drive on or off the track, but I think you need more tire contact area, and more brake mass to be competitive on the track with the Z06.

REAL 'Vette drivers don't need no stinkin' AH/TC!

I wanna see car/driver skills not software engineer's code compensating for driver error.

[iburke]

I guess every one miss my Three long posts on the build of this car over the last couple of years. I,ll dig out some of the pics and post them here.

I under stand the advantage of all the current state-of-the-art technology. I drove a C6 Z06 on and off the track for 40K miles. And at the Bondurant school.

But like most of you out there I don't have a ton of money, and about 3 years ago I came so close to putting my Z06 in to a wall at the track in Topeka Ks. And at $1200 for a front fender, $900 for a hood, $1500 for a windshield, and if the aluminum frame got bent... Well I thought there has to be a cheaper way to race.

As far as the traction control and active handling goes, it is a great safety factor and teaching tool. If you can drive with out activating it you are making your fastest laps. When it comes on it stops you in your tracks.

I do miss anti lock brakes, Its easier to come in to a corner braking late with your foot full on the brake all you need to think about is steering input, and not feathering the brake.

I love reading your posts both pro and con, It makes me stop and think about what to do next. Just like my first time on the track with it I found it was useless with out rear brake bias control, only a $30 item...



The old track car.



The C3 interior under stand this is still a work in progress.



One of the motor.



The Rack and front and rear spring.





The brakes and A arms.



This car is street legal, the suspension can be adj. for track or street. And it is as smooth power wise to drive as the Z06. It has great street manners.

[ylose]

Your build is fantastic....keep it rolling!!

[rtj]

Looks really good. What seat is that? Can you let us know how it fits, comfort, seating position, mounting, etc.

One thing you might consider as a low cost upgrade is the tall Howe upper ball joints. For $150, they apparently improve steering geometry ( lots of info on the web for c3's).