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Old 11-15-2012, 08:21 AM   #1
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Here's one conservatives' take on REAL compromise...

I'm going to try and take a stab at real compromise. I'm a socially conservative Republican but more middle-to-right fiscally. Over and above the social concerns, this country needs to be brought back economically, first and foremost. If President Obama came to me and asked me what his administration should do to fix the economy, I would honestly say this:


Mr. President, it's obvious that the only way to overcome the federal deficit is to either raise taxes and/or cut spending. If my income is less than my expenses then it's obvious that I have to either raise additional revenue to cover the deficit and/or reduce my expenses. I have to ask, though, Mr. President, are you willing to cut spending enough to offset the deficit? If you are, fine... if not, then you will have to do both. As you know, Mr. President, cutting spending isn't popular with Democrats and raising taxes isn't popular with Republicans. But, having said that, I believe that we can compromise on this issue by doing both... I recommend, Mr. President, that you raise income taxes, not just on the wealthy, but across the board evenly and fairly. What I mean by this is all Americans need to share in this necessity in order to pay down the $16-trillion dollar deficit we have and we need to share it fairly at a consistent percentage. It's already been shown many times, Mr. President, that the fallacy of the rich not paying their fair share is exactly that... they already pay more in income taxes than any other class of citizen. I will acknowledge, Mr. Presidnet, that the individual income tax rates are some of the lowest in US history and certainly in the world so I do believe all Americans should see an increase... but with a caveat, Mr. President. That caveat should be that, once the deficit drops a certain percentage, the tax increase should be cut by nearly that same percentage so that, when the total deficit is eradicated, the American people should not have to be burdened with higher taxes any longer. Ok, Mr. President, so we've established that we need a tax increase and exactly how to do that BUT we've forgotten one important thing... the American citizens are going to need some help affording the tax increase. This is why I propose dramatically CUTTING the corporate tax rates and capital gains taxes. Mr. President, we both know the stock market tanked the day after you were re-elected so it's obvious that Wall Street and businesses in general are scared to death of what you intend to do with four more years. Please realize that the only way companies are going to start spending money and hiring more people and paying people better salaries is to reduce these taxes! You will truly stimulate the economy by doing this and you will see a massive flow of tax revenue, due to the temporarily increased income taxes, as more and more people are hired back into the working sector. Unemployment will go back down and Americans will become confident once more. So, with all of that said, Mr. President, let's talk about spending... if you really want to show your true willingness to compromise with Republicans, you are going to have to revamp the nasty entitlement side of the US governement. Take your lumps and read the handwriting on the wall, Mr. President, and acknowledge that your healthcare program does not solve any problems. This program is overwhelmingly unpopular with the very people you will be asking to swallow a tax increase so you might want to look at either cutting it out completely or at least significantly reducing it's cost by relegating it to more of an overhaul of Medicaid and Medicare... you can call it a win if you want since you will be a hero for reducing the massive fraud and spending in both of those programs. Then you need to start into other entitlement programs and bloated government agencies by completely overhauling those that don't produce their intended value. This includes most federal departments like the Labor Department, Education Department, Energy Department, EPA, etc... and, yes, even the Department of Defense. But be careful with the DoD because you still need a strong but lean military... don't leave us exposed to those that would intend harm on us. And you know well and good that there are still plenty of those people around!

Well, Mr. President, that's my advice to you... now it's up to you to admit the truth to yourself that Americans don't want socialism and they don't want bigger government. They want real solutions and they are looking to you to come up with them! So, LEAD Mr. President!!


If President Obama did what I suggested, he would truly have my respect and, I believe, the respect of most Americans. But, unfortunately, I must admit that I don't see him OR the Republicans doing any this...
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:03 AM   #2
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Mr. Obama would likely give you a swift kick for your advice. He doesn't need to compromise, and will never agree to tax hikes on anyone but the rich. That is why I believe the Pubs should stand their ground and let the Bush tax cuts expire. That way everybody gets hit just the way you recommended. There will be a PR war to place the blame on the opposite party, but the country chose this asshat, let them eat cake as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:12 AM   #3
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Never gonna happen. Well thought out, well written and not bad ideas, but basically you are saying "Hey Romney didn't win because not enough people were convinced by him, but can you be him anyway?"
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:20 AM   #4
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Mr. Obama would likely give you a swift kick for your advice. He doesn't need to compromise, and will never agree to tax hikes on anyone but the rich. That is why I believe the Pubs should stand their ground and let the Bush tax cuts expire. That way everybody gets hit just the way you recommended. There will be a PR war to place the blame on the opposite party, but the country chose this asshat, let them eat cake as far as I'm concerned.
Unfortunately, you're right, Tex...

Guess I'm just trying to put forth a workable solution in a fictional setting. I can hope...
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:23 AM   #5
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Never gonna happen. Well thought out, well written and not bad ideas, but basically you are saying "Hey Romney didn't win because not enough people were convinced by him, but can you be him anyway?"
Not at all! You couldn't be further from the truth. What I've suggested was not completely in Romney's platform. What I've presented is simply what I believe to be necessary for this country to come together and succeed. Romney NEVER presented his plan this way and that's exactly why, although I voted for him, I resented his candidacy.

One thing you can be certain of from this conservative... Romney is history to me and I'm well past him!
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:45 AM   #6
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*****if you want me to read all them there words, you
gotta put some pictures in there for us country boys.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by monsolo2 View Post
I'm going to try and take a stab at real compromise. I'm a socially conservative Republican but more middle-to-right fiscally. Over and above the social concerns, this country needs to be brought back economically, first and foremost. If President Obama came to me and asked me what his administration should do to fix the economy, I would honestly say this:


Mr. President, it's obvious that the only way to overcome the federal deficit is to either raise taxes and/or cut spending. If my income is less than my expenses then it's obvious that I have to either raise additional revenue to cover the deficit and/or reduce my expenses. I have to ask, though, Mr. President, are you willing to cut spending enough to offset the deficit? If you are, fine... if not, then you will have to do both. As you know, Mr. President, cutting spending isn't popular with Democrats and raising taxes isn't popular with Republicans. But, having said that, I believe that we can compromise on this issue by doing both... I recommend, Mr. President, that you raise income taxes, not just on the wealthy, but across the board evenly and fairly. What I mean by this is all Americans need to share in this necessity in order to pay down the $16-trillion dollar deficit we have and we need to share it fairly at a consistent percentage. It's already been shown many times, Mr. President, that the fallacy of the rich not paying their fair share is exactly that... they already pay more in income taxes than any other class of citizen. I will acknowledge, Mr. Presidnet, that the individual income tax rates are some of the lowest in US history and certainly in the world so I do believe all Americans should see an increase... but with a caveat, Mr. President. That caveat should be that, once the deficit drops a certain percentage, the tax increase should be cut by nearly that same percentage so that, when the total deficit is eradicated, the American people should not have to be burdened with higher taxes any longer. Ok, Mr. President, so we've established that we need a tax increase and exactly how to do that BUT we've forgotten one important thing... the American citizens are going to need some help affording the tax increase. This is why I propose dramatically CUTTING the corporate tax rates and capital gains taxes. Mr. President, we both know the stock market tanked the day after you were re-elected so it's obvious that Wall Street and businesses in general are scared to death of what you intend to do with four more years. Please realize that the only way companies are going to start spending money and hiring more people and paying people better salaries is to reduce these taxes! You will truly stimulate the economy by doing this and you will see a massive flow of tax revenue, due to the temporarily increased income taxes, as more and more people are hired back into the working sector. Unemployment will go back down and Americans will become confident once more. So, with all of that said, Mr. President, let's talk about spending... if you really want to show your true willingness to compromise with Republicans, you are going to have to revamp the nasty entitlement side of the US governement. Take your lumps and read the handwriting on the wall, Mr. President, and acknowledge that your healthcare program does not solve any problems. This program is overwhelmingly unpopular with the very people you will be asking to swallow a tax increase so you might want to look at either cutting it out completely or at least significantly reducing it's cost by relegating it to more of an overhaul of Medicaid and Medicare... you can call it a win if you want since you will be a hero for reducing the massive fraud and spending in both of those programs. Then you need to start into other entitlement programs and bloated government agencies by completely overhauling those that don't produce their intended value. This includes most federal departments like the Labor Department, Education Department, Energy Department, EPA, etc... and, yes, even the Department of Defense. But be careful with the DoD because you still need a strong but lean military... don't leave us exposed to those that would intend harm on us. And you know well and good that there are still plenty of those people around!

Well, Mr. President, that's my advice to you... now it's up to you to admit the truth to yourself that Americans don't want socialism and they don't want bigger government. They want real solutions and they are looking to you to come up with them! So, LEAD Mr. President!!


If President Obama did what I suggested, he would truly have my respect and, I believe, the respect of most Americans. But, unfortunately, I must admit that I don't see him OR the Republicans doing any this...
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:57 AM   #7
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What monsolo2 posted is how our Government is supposed to work. Its not a Democratic thingy or a Republican thingy. Thing should be only done by our president that is positive for the country not the party they belong too. Thats whats broken on our guberment. That and no single line veto's
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:43 AM   #8
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*****if you want me to read all them there words, you
gotta put some pictures in there for us country boys.....
Come one, Roadster, you're smarter than that!

Print it out and read it while you're sitting on the pot!
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:52 AM   #9
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My imaginary conversation with Obama in a nutshell:

1.) Conservatives want no increased income taxes (or even reduced) but that's not feasible. The deficit needs to be overcome somehow and when decreased spending is much harder to induce than increased income taxes, you have to opt along the income tax line first BUT only as a temporary means of eating down the deficit.

2.) Democrats don't want to decrease ANY spending at all (in fact they would really like to see more) but it's crucial if we are to eventually decrease the temporarily high income taxes AND keep the reduced deficit level at the new low.

3.) Corporate taxes and capital gains taxes need to be dramatically reduced to kick-start businesses again and start the economic cashflow that will bring about a real recovery
AND put more money in peoples pockets than the temporary tax increase will take out.

The fact of the matter is this: if these three things are not done, the economy will slip further and further into the tank and it will be the fault of BOTH sides!
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsolo2 View Post
My imaginary conversation with Obama in a nutshell:

1.) Conservatives want no increased income taxes (or even reduced) but that's not feasible. The deficit needs to be overcome somehow and when decreased spending is much harder to induce than increased income taxes, you have to opt along the income tax line first BUT only as a temporary means of eating down the deficit.

2.) Democrats don't want to decrease ANY spending at all (in fact they would really like to see more) but it's crucial if we are to eventually decrease the temporarily high income taxes AND keep the reduced deficit level at the new low.

3.) Corporate taxes and capital gains taxes need to be dramatically reduced to kick-start businesses again and start the economic cashflow that will bring about a real recovery
AND put more money in peoples pockets than the temporary tax increase will take out.

The fact of the matter is this: if these three things are not done, the economy will slip further and further into the tank and it will be the fault of BOTH sides!
I agree completely with what you say. But remember after the first victory by Obama when he said "We won" indicating he didn't need the pubs? Well, if you saw the press conference yesterday and read between the lines, it appears that he is saying "We won, mother-f***ers, now go sit in the corner while we have our way with the country". He's not looking for compromise. He's looking for capitulation. When I was a kid during the cold war, I used to wonder what it would be like one day to wake up and have Russian tanks rolling down the streets of Dallas, and wonder how my world would be after that. I think I'm about to find out.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:07 PM   #11
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3.) Corporate taxes and capital gains taxes need to be dramatically reduced to kick-start businesses again and start the economic cashflow that will bring about a real recovery
AND put more money in peoples pockets than the temporary tax increase will take out.
Is Nick wrong?

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Old 11-16-2012, 06:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by monsolo2 View Post

3.) Corporate taxes and capital gains taxes need to be dramatically reduced to kick-start businesses again and start the economic cashflow that will bring about a real recovery
AND put more money in peoples pockets than the temporary tax increase will take out.
An informed public knows lowering corporate tax rates is not supported by facts. During 2006 these where the top 10:
# 10 DirecTV Tax Rate: 2.0%
# 9 Akamai Technologies Tax Rate: 1.9%
# 8 American Capital Strategies Tax Rate: 1.8%
# 7 Citizens Communications Tax Rate: 1.6%
# 6 Allegheny Energy Tax Rate: 1.3%
# 5 FPL Group Tax Rate: 1.2%
# 4 Broadcom Tax Rate: 1.1%
# 3 Boeing Tax Rate: 0.7%
# 2 Chesapeake Energy Tax Rate: 0.3%
#1 CMS Energy Tax Rate: 0%
Source: Bloomberg Business Week (2006)

Let's have an honest discussion about the merits of lowering corporate taxes. Just this year is was announced Apple paid around 2%.

HP is taking a charge against earnings to the tune of $8B (tax rate 22%), resulting in future tax benefits, i.e., additional write-offs.

. . .
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayZ View Post
An informed public knows lowering corporate tax rates is not supported by facts. During 2006 these where the top 10:
# 10 DirecTV Tax Rate: 2.0%
# 9 Akamai Technologies Tax Rate: 1.9%
# 8 American Capital Strategies Tax Rate: 1.8%
# 7 Citizens Communications Tax Rate: 1.6%
# 6 Allegheny Energy Tax Rate: 1.3%
# 5 FPL Group Tax Rate: 1.2%
# 4 Broadcom Tax Rate: 1.1%
# 3 Boeing Tax Rate: 0.7%
# 2 Chesapeake Energy Tax Rate: 0.3%
#1 CMS Energy Tax Rate: 0%
Source: Bloomberg Business Week (2006)

Let's have an honest discussion about the merits of lowering corporate taxes. Just this year is was announced Apple paid around 2%.

HP is taking a charge against earnings to the tune of $8B (tax rate 22%), resulting in future tax benefits, i.e., additional write-offs.

. . .
Good info! I've seen so many business leaders acknowledge the pleothora of loop holes and angles in the tax code that it's not even funny. There isn't one honest businessman who will tell you that they actually pay the listed rates.

Having said that, I think that's a good thing to keep corporate taxes low to keep our businesses competitive. The tax code in it's entirety needs to be thrown out. As it stands, the bottom-line is the new "religion" and everyone's at the alter. The working man is being squeezed out as the lobbyist pay congress to legislate the move of jobs off-shore, to improve upon that bottom-line.

Corporate has been deep in the pockets of all congressman for decades and decades now. Folks will continue to blame each other's party, the rich, the poor, the immigrants, the gays, blacks, asians, hispanics and so forth,.. but few will take on the "Big Guns".

Last edited by c6vettedude; 11-16-2012 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:56 AM   #14
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Can either of you two economists explain what happens when Corporations and Businesses pay increased taxes?
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:34 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by MayZ View Post
An informed public knows lowering corporate tax rates is not supported by facts. During 2006 these where the top 10:
# 10 DirecTV Tax Rate: 2.0%
# 9 Akamai Technologies Tax Rate: 1.9%
# 8 American Capital Strategies Tax Rate: 1.8%
# 7 Citizens Communications Tax Rate: 1.6%
# 6 Allegheny Energy Tax Rate: 1.3%
# 5 FPL Group Tax Rate: 1.2%
# 4 Broadcom Tax Rate: 1.1%
# 3 Boeing Tax Rate: 0.7%
# 2 Chesapeake Energy Tax Rate: 0.3%
#1 CMS Energy Tax Rate: 0%
Source: Bloomberg Business Week (2006)

Let's have an honest discussion about the merits of lowering corporate taxes. Just this year is was announced Apple paid around 2%.

HP is taking a charge against earnings to the tune of $8B (tax rate 22%), resulting in future tax benefits, i.e., additional write-offs.

. . .
I understand what you're attempting to say and you're right... about large corporations! What I'm trying to get across, and this is also supported by many reams of data, is that the US economy is NOT driven by the corporate taxes of these few large corporations... it's driven by the many hundreds of thousands of small to medium sized businesses that DON'T have the ability to find and and take advantage of those tax loopholes! I've been in small to medium sized business environments all my life (I just happen to now work for a larger one) and I can tell you handily that the corporate tax payment is one that is made every year with great pain! There has been a great push in this nation to demonize "big business" when it isn't even "big business" that causes our economy to thrive and grow!
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You can only have it one way, America... individual freedom or big government. Which is it going to be?
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