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Old 12-23-2012, 06:36 PM   #1
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NRA issues point-blank 'no' on gun control

AFP - The NRA, the most powerful gun lobby in the United States, ruled out any support Sunday for greater regulation of firearms or ammunition magazines after the Sandy Hook elementary school massacre.

Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, said planned legislation to outlaw military-style assault weapons and large-capacity magazines was "phony" and would not work.

He repeated the NRA's call to place an armed guard in every school and argued that prosecuting criminals and fixing the mental health system, rather than gun control, were the solutions to America's mass shooting epidemic.

On December 14, a disturbed local man, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, killed his mother in their Newtown, Connecticut home before embarking on a horrific spree at a local elementary school.

He burst into Sandy Hook elementary and shot dead 20 six- and seven-year old children and six adults with a military-style rifle before taking his own life with a handgun as police closed in.

The bloodshed reopened a national debate on gun laws.

President Barack Obama said he would support a new bill to ban assault rifles and put Vice President Joe Biden in charge of a panel looking at a wide range of other measures, from school security to mental health.

Democratic Senator Diane Feinstein has pledged to table a bill on January 3 that would ban at least 100 military-style semi-automatic assault weapons, and would curb the transfer, importation and the possession of such arms.

"I think that is a phony piece of legislation, and I do not believe it will pass for this reason," LaPierre told NBC's "Meet the Press." "It is all built on lies that have been found out."

"We don't think it works and we're not going to support it," he said.

The NRA points to the fact that the 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, when 12 kids and a teacher were gunned down by two senior students, occurred despite similar legislation being in force at the time.

"I don't think it will (work). I keep saying it, and you just won't accept it: it's not going to work, it hasn't worked. Dianne Feinstein had her (previous) ban and Columbine occurred," LaPierre said.

America has suffered an epidemic of gun violence over the last three decades including 62 mass shooting incidents since 1982. The vast majority of weapons used have been semi-automatic weapons obtained legally by the killers.

There were an estimated 310 million non-military firearms in the United States in 2009, roughly one per citizen, and people in America are 20 times more likely to be killed by a gun than someone in another developed country.

The NRA has been in the crosshairs since the Sandy Hook massacre and took the unusual step on Friday of holding a press conference and speaking out on the tragedy.

But rather than come out in support of limited gun control measures, the lobby -- which retains a powerful influence over politicians, especially from rural districts where gun owners are the norm -- demanded that armed police be deployed to every school in the country.

LaPierre reaffirmed that position on Sunday and launched a fierce defense of gun owners' rights, which he portrayed as being imperiled by rich folk in cities, elite politicians and a hysterical media.

"The average guy in the country values his freedom, doesn't believe the fact that he can own a gun is part of the problem and doesn't like the media and all these high-profile politicians blaming him," he said.

http://www.france24.com/en/20121223-...no-gun-control
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:41 PM   #2
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....hey, I'll stay out of this thread to make it easier for you....
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Roadster View Post
....hey, I'll stay out of this thread to make it easier for you....
Your more than welcome, just be sensible. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. The tool used doesn't matter near as much as the tool using it.
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
Old 12-26-2012, 06:50 AM   #4
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http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/tod...08495#50208495

media forced to admit an assault rifle was NEVER USED in the Connecticut school massacre , he had one but it was left in the trunk of the car, and not used in the shootings, all the talk about EVIL ASSAULT RIFLES was and IS MEDIA HYPE to BE USED TOO PUSH FOR INCREASED GUN CONTROL.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vette_Newb View Post
Your more than welcome, just be sensible. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. The tool used doesn't matter near as much as the tool using it.
Really? You honestly think he could have killed all of those kids if he had been armed with a hammer? This whole guns don't kill people, people kill people is bullshit. Mass murders wouldn't happen like they do without these guns. How many people would have survived in Colorado if that guy busted in there with a knife?

I'd like to say, as I did in a prior thread, I am not against guns or gun ownership but as you asked 92roadster, "let's be sensible"...
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:19 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Vette_Newb View Post
LaPierre reaffirmed that position on Sunday and launched a fierce defense of gun owners' rights, which he portrayed as being imperiled by rich folk in cities, elite politicians and a hysterical media.

"The average guy in the country values his freedom, doesn't believe the fact that he can own a gun is part of the problem and doesn't like the media and all these high-profile politicians blaming him," he said.

I imported this from the other thread, but it is what I
searched for that I could not find...

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyvette
Amendment II (1791)
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a
free State
, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
shall not be infringed.


What does it mean?
It means exactly what it says, that the peopleís individual right
to be armed will be respected and that the resulting armed
populace will be secure against tyranny, invasion, and crime.
Our founding fathers were careful to construct this sentence in
such a manner that there could be no other reasonable
interpretation
besides the obvious. Anybody with even the
most limited understanding of the English language will agree.
....that I did not find in 2A, which most people are pointing
to as there right, how does any of the above relate to
"freedom".....
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:20 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by raidmagic View Post
Mass murders wouldn't happen like they do without these guns.
You're right. Fortunately, there's also bombs, explosives, poison (ingested), poison gas, germ dispersal, vehicular homicide, flying an airplane into a building, and destroying a passenger airliner.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidmagic View Post
Really? You honestly think he could have killed all of those kids if he had been armed with a hammer? This whole guns don't kill people, people kill people is bullshit. Mass murders wouldn't happen like they do without these guns. How many people would have survived in Colorado if that guy busted in there with a knife?

I'd like to say, as I did in a prior thread, I am not against guns or gun ownership but as you asked 92roadster, "let's be sensible"...
Yes. Let us be sensible.
Maybe we can start by getting our facts correct.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._weapons_.html


The shooting spree that killed 12 people in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater on Friday has sparked a public debate about the availability of automatic weapons. Gun control advocates argue that mass murder is exceedingly difficult without them. One source told the Washington Post, ďItís kind of hard to be a pseudo-commando with a musket in the 18th century.Ē How did people commit mass murder before the advent of automatic weapons?


Often with fire. Revolutionary War veteran Barnett Davenport is widely considered the first mass murderer in U.S. history. On the evening of Feb. 3, 1780, Davenport burst into the bedroom of his employer, Caleb Mallory, and began to bludgeon Mallory and his wife with a club. When the club broke in two, Davenport beat the couple to death with Malloryís gun. If Davenport had stopped there, he would be remembered as just an ordinary killer; most criminologists define mass murder as the killing of at least three people in a single incident. After beating the Mallorys to death, however, Davenport burned the house down, killing their three grandchildren.



Hundreds of other mass murderers have perpetrated their crimes without automatic firearms. Frenchman Pierre Riviere killed his mother, sister, and brother with a bill hook in 1835. In 1932, Julian Marcelino, a Filipino immigrant of relatively small stature, managed to kill six and wound 15 on a Seattle street using only a pair of blades. In 1915, Monroe Phillips shot seven dead and wounded 32 with a shotgun in Georgia.



Guns arenít even the most lethal mass murder weapon. According to data compiled by Grant Duwe of the Minnesota Department of Corrections, guns killed an average of 4.92 victims per mass murder in the United States during the 20th century, just edging out knives, blunt objects, and bare hands, which killed 4.52 people per incident. Fire killed 6.82 people per mass murder, while explosives far outpaced the other options at 20.82. Of the 25 deadliest mass murders in the 20th century, only 52 percent involved guns.



The U.S. mass murder rate does not seem to rise or fall with the availability of automatic weapons. It reached its highest level in 1929, when fully automatic firearms were expensive and mostly limited to soldiers and organized criminals. The rate dipped in the mid-1930s, staying relatively low before surging again in the 1970s through 1990s. Some criminologists attribute the late-century spike to the potential for instant notoriety: Beginning with Charles Whitmanís 1966 shooting spree from atop a University of Texas tower, mass murderers became household names. Others point out that the mass murder rate fairly closely tracks the overall homicide rate. In the 2000s, for example, both the mass murder and the homicide rates dropped to their lowest levels since the 1960s.


A mass murdererís weapon of choice depends somewhat on his victims. Attacks with guns, fire, knives, and bare hands are far more likely to be directed against family and acquaintances than total strangers, while mass murderers prefer to use explosives against people they donít know. Also of note: Those who use firearms in a killing spree turn the gun on themselves 34 percent of the time, while only 9 percent of mass-murdering arsonists take their own lives.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:02 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by blckslvr79 View Post
Yes. Let us be sensible.
Maybe we can start by getting our facts correct.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._weapons_.html
.....I'm not sure of the "Slate's" info where it was obtained....
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:16 AM   #10
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.....I'm not sure of the "Slate's" info where it was obtained....
Disprove it then.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:33 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by blckslvr79 View Post
Disprove it then.
.....I searched thru; "Explainer thanks Grant Duwe, author of
Mass Murder in the United States: A History, and Stephen T.
Holmes
of the University of Central Florida, co-author of Mass
Murder in the United States."

...and failed to find any of the related info you posted..
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blckslvr79 View Post
Yes. Let us be sensible.
Maybe we can start by getting our facts correct.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._weapons_.html


The shooting spree that killed 12 people in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater on Friday has sparked a public debate about the availability of automatic weapons. Gun control advocates argue that mass murder is exceedingly difficult without them. One source told the Washington Post, ďItís kind of hard to be a pseudo-commando with a musket in the 18th century.Ē How did people commit mass murder before the advent of automatic weapons?


Often with fire. Revolutionary War veteran Barnett Davenport is widely considered the first mass murderer in U.S. history. On the evening of Feb. 3, 1780, Davenport burst into the bedroom of his employer, Caleb Mallory, and began to bludgeon Mallory and his wife with a club. When the club broke in two, Davenport beat the couple to death with Malloryís gun. If Davenport had stopped there, he would be remembered as just an ordinary killer; most criminologists define mass murder as the killing of at least three people in a single incident. After beating the Mallorys to death, however, Davenport burned the house down, killing their three grandchildren.

Close, you are only 21 people short...oh yeah in a public place where there were others to witness and prevent it


Hundreds of other mass murderers have perpetrated their crimes without automatic firearms. Frenchman Pierre Riviere killed his mother, sister, and brother with a bill hook in 1835. In 1932, Julian Marcelino, a Filipino immigrant of relatively small stature, managed to kill six and wound 15 on a Seattle street using only a pair of blades. In 1915, Monroe Phillips shot seven dead and wounded 32 with a shotgun in Georgia.
Again, a little short of the 26, fancy blade work, do you think he could have done more damage had he had a pistol?
OOPS, there's that pesky gun again.



Guns arenít even the most lethal mass murder weapon. According to data compiled by Grant Duwe of the Minnesota Department of Corrections, guns killed an average of 4.92 victims per mass murder in the United States during the 20th century, just edging out knives, blunt objects, and bare hands, which killed 4.52 people per incident. Fire killed 6.82 people per mass murder, while explosives far outpaced the other options at 20.82. Of the 25 deadliest mass murders in the 20th century, only 52 percent involved guns.



The U.S. mass murder rate does not seem to rise or fall with the availability of automatic weapons. It reached its highest level in 1929, when fully automatic firearms were expensive and mostly limited to soldiers and organized criminals. The rate dipped in the mid-1930s, staying relatively low before surging again in the 1970s through 1990s. Some criminologists attribute the late-century spike to the potential for instant notoriety: Beginning with Charles Whitmanís 1966 shooting spree from atop a University of Texas tower, mass murderers became household names. Others point out that the mass murder rate fairly closely tracks the overall homicide rate. In the 2000s, for example, both the mass murder and the homicide rates dropped to their lowest levels since the 1960s.


A mass murdererís weapon of choice depends somewhat on his victims. Attacks with guns, fire, knives, and bare hands are far more likely to be directed against family and acquaintances than total strangers, while mass murderers prefer to use explosives against people they donít know. Also of note: Those who use firearms in a killing spree turn the gun on themselves 34 percent of the time, while only 9 percent of mass-murdering arsonists take their own lives.


Wanna produce some stats that are revelant to the conversation? Talking about things that happened long before the media we have now and the talking points we have now are kinda pointless.

Like I said above, I'm not against guns, I own some myself what I have a problem with is gun supporters sticking their heads in the sand and saying the guns are not part of the problem. And trust me this goes way beyond guns, I'm just tired of hearing that guns don't contribute.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Roadster View Post
.....I searched thru; "Explainer thanks Grant Duwe, author of
Mass Murder in the United States: A History, and Stephen T.
Holmes
of the University of Central Florida, co-author of Mass
Murder in the United States."

...and failed to find any of the related info you posted..
Guess you need to read the source's sources then.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 92Roadster View Post
.....I'm not sure of the "Slate's" info where it was obtained....
You mean you're not imressed with the cut and paste fluff? If it's on the internet, it must be true!
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidmagic View Post
Wanna produce some stats that are revelant to the conversation? Talking about things that happened long before the media we have now and the talking points we have now are kinda pointless.

Like I said above, I'm not against guns, I own some myself what I have a problem with is gun supporters sticking their heads in the sand and saying the guns are not part of the problem. And trust me this goes way beyond guns, I'm just tired of hearing that guns don't contribute.
In the sand is better than up your ass.

So show all of us evil Second Amendment supporters ONE single gun that has committed attrocities in a public arena against others without the help of a crazy person. Oh? you can't? Until you people stop complaining about evil guns and start looking at the TRUE reason for these crimes, OH YES, CRIMES...there are already laws against taking such actions. Did those laws work? Until you people stop making decisions based on your emotions, I'll continue to post proof that Gun laws have no effect on criminals committing crimes. These criminals will continue the same actions with or without the wasteful laws that allow you to sleep better.

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