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Old 02-04-2013, 08:06 AM   #1
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The Subsidy Addiction: Jobs Vs Foodstamps

Someone needs to start a national discussion on jobs..

In the aftermath of Friday's mediocre jobs report, and while we wait for the USDA to release the latest November foodstamp update which will almost certainly print at a new record high, here is yet another representation of a relationship we have shown on several occasions previously, yet which is always entertaining, and shows just what kind of "recovery" the US is undergoing. Presenting the indexed change of payrolls (green line) and foodstamps recipients (red). No explanation is necessary.



Some thoughts from Bloomberg Brief:

An ongoing concern is that growth in jobs continues to be dwarfed by the surge in food stamps. During the first 10 months of 2012 there were 1.01 million new additions to the USDA’s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), a 2.2 percent increase. During the same period, the number of nonfarm payroll jobs increased by 1.5 million, a 1.1 percent gain.

The results from the end of the recession in June 2009 are even more staggering. The number of food stamp recipients has rocketed 30 percent since mid-2009, yet the number of nonfarm payroll jobs has inched up a mere 2 percent over that same period. Considering the composition of those jobs – in low wage industries – the household sector is clearly suffering.

In a conference call last Thursday, a day before the jobs report, Scott Beattie, CEO of Elizabeth Arden noted that the company’s customers remain challenged by the economy. “These are customers that are living paycheck-to-paycheck, many of them reliant on government subsidy in food stamps and unemployment insurance and other kinds of government subsidies, and you see it,” he said.

Dick Boer, CEO of Koninklijke Ahold Nv, the Dutch owner of Stop & Shop, mentioned his concerns with this issue in late November. “We know that 15 percent of the Americans are living on food stamps today, and we know that most of them, even after two or three weeks, are short of money.”

And David Dillion, the CEO of grocery store giant Kroger recently said that while the economy has gently improved, value customers are still stretched. “We still are getting a lot of food stamps, a very high dollar amount and a very high percentage amount, and that is definitely problematic.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...-vs-foodstamps
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:41 AM   #2
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Technology is wiping out millions of jobs that require little skill. In earlier recessions, there were always lots of low skill jobs that could be taken for the interem just to get by until the economy improved and better jobs came back. Computers have made workers more productive and, therefore, have reduced the workforce for that type of work. This isn't likely to change any time soon - and maybe never. I don't have an anwer. Since women went to work in large numbers in the 70's, and slowly increased their percentage of workers, followed by increased industrial automation, outsourcing of many jobs and computerization of many clerical type jobs, we just have too few jobs for the number of adults who want or need to work.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:01 AM   #3
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And round and round we go.....

A quick look at the SNAP website and it appears as though you need a job to receive the benefit of food stamps (although there are exceptions). So, its not just JOBS we need, but WELL PAYING jobs. If employers are only willing to pay so much for jobs that they NEED to have done, then we will always have people in need of food stamp type programs.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:17 AM   #4
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And round and round we go.....

A quick look at the SNAP website and it appears as though you need a job to receive the benefit of food stamps (although there are exceptions). So, its not just JOBS we need, but WELL PAYING jobs. If employers are only willing to pay so much for jobs that they NEED to have done, then we will always have people in need of food stamp type programs.
Bingo. No matter what statisticians say, inflation is real and putting a serious pinch on the lower middle class right now. Food, Energy both have risen substantially without a significant rise in salaries.





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Old 02-04-2013, 09:23 AM   #5
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Those charts are disheartening.

So now we have 2 categories as I see it:
1) existing jobs need to pay better
2) we need more higher wage jobs

Solutions? (realistically)
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:43 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
Technology is wiping out millions of jobs that require little skill. In earlier recessions, there were always lots of low skill jobs that could be taken for the interem just to get by until the economy improved and better jobs came back. Computers have made workers more productive and, therefore, have reduced the workforce for that type of work. This isn't likely to change any time soon - and maybe never. I don't have an anwer. Since women went to work in large numbers in the 70's, and slowly increased their percentage of workers, followed by increased industrial automation, outsourcing of many jobs and computerization of many clerical type jobs, we just have too few jobs for the number of adults who want or need to work.
Tex is on target here but....

When I first started in the maching trade, I was one of fifty men at the shop I worked at. We each stood at a machine making one part at a time. The best of us would scrap one out of 10 parts the worst of us quite a few more.

Today my shop has 5 men including me. Those five men turn out far more work than the fifty at the first shop I worked at. Scrap rates are 1 out of 100 or less. So 45 men are out of work due to the technology that we now use. Now the rub....we have been growing quickly, but we cannot find the type of skilled man that we can use to expand our work force. In our industry it is reported that we are short 600,000 men. We are now training men, but that training period due to the level of technological knowlege and mechanical skill, is a minimum of 5 years to just be adaquate at setting up machines. The very highly complex set-ups takes a master with 15 to twenty years under his belt.

You would think that the market would fix this inbalance, as machinsits make very good money, but when I try to send my trainees to school the classes are canceled due to lack of students. This has been the situation for many years now. The best of our trade today come from other countries. I think this is a sad commentary of what our people are doing today. I think our people just want to take the short cut to the CEOs office and are just not willing to put the time and effort into training themselves.
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Welcome to the Machine...... (I'm still a clown) this from Ponch (second time) who is supposed to be a moderator on this site....but of course if you disagree with him this is the sort of thing he does. It is simply amazing that anyone would give a guy who is so obviously childish and spiteful a position of authority.
Old 02-04-2013, 09:44 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by XQIZT View Post
Those charts are disheartening.

So now we have 2 categories as I see it:
1) existing jobs need to pay better
2) we need more higher wage jobs

Solutions? (realistically)
It comes back to the baseline problem I keep bringing up..





The balance is too far out of whack. The Fed is printing money that devalues money. That devaluation affects those with less, much more. At the same time, that printing is pushing the market higher and companies are piling up cash in banks, that needs to be getting out into the economy.

I don't know if there is a real solution, I think the genie may be out of the bottle at this point. We are in uncharted waters because all of the western economies are in the same mess, doing the same things, and having little to no success.

The whole economy needs a good sterilization and the bad debts need to be expunged and losses taken. It was a horrible mistake IMO to do TARP and start picking winners/losers resulting in too big too fail and too big too jail.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:51 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Vette_Newb View Post
It comes back to the baseline problem I keep bringing up..





The balance is too far out of whack. The Fed is printing money that devalues money. That devaluation affects those with less, much more. At the same time, that printing is pushing the market higher and companies are piling up cash in banks, that needs to be getting out into the economy.

I don't know if there is a real solution, I think the genie may be out of the bottle at this point. We are in uncharted waters because all of the western economies are in the same mess, doing the same things, and having little to no success.

The whole economy needs a good sterilization and the bad debts need to be expunged and losses taken. It was a horrible mistake IMO to do TARP and start picking winners/losers resulting in too big too fail and too big too jail.
Newb....what you point to is actualy completely true....but the repair for this imbalance is higher taxes on the rich...especialy on inheritance to keep the money moving around, and not tied up. I know this does not fall into your beliefs nor mine but what other solution do you see.
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Welcome to the Machine...... (I'm still a clown) this from Ponch (second time) who is supposed to be a moderator on this site....but of course if you disagree with him this is the sort of thing he does. It is simply amazing that anyone would give a guy who is so obviously childish and spiteful a position of authority.
Old 02-04-2013, 09:55 AM   #9
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Newb....what you point to is actualy completely true....but the repair for this imbalance is higher taxes on the rich...especialy on inheritance to keep the money moving around, and not tied up. I know this does not fall into your beliefs nor mine but what other solution do you see.
I really don't see a solution. The Fed is locked into printing with no real way out.. they have painted themselves into a corner.
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Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives.
Old 02-04-2013, 10:01 AM   #10
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1 problem as I see it is that Americans aren't willing to pay for skilled labor, ie auto repair techs (qualified ones, not retards), or anything not involved with IT.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:01 AM   #11
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I really don't see a solution. The Fed is locked into printing with no real way out.. they have painted themselves into a corner.
Forget the Fed. The population (people and business) needs to come up with a solution on its own, despite what the Fed does. Here's where I see the hangup, I don't think business cares about how many people are on food stamps or any other programs.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:03 AM   #12
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1 problem as I see it is that Americans aren't willing to pay for skilled labor, ie auto repair techs (qualified ones, not retards), or anything not involved with IT.
Correct....and to add to that, for a long time, students leaving high school were convinced that "going to college" was the most important thing...but the truth is that some people should have done some type of trade school, since THOSE jobs are going unfilled now.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #13
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If employers are only willing to pay so much for jobs that they NEED to have done, then we will always have people in need of food stamp type programs.
What other type of job IS there?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:13 AM   #14
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Forget the Fed. The population (people and business) needs to come up with a solution on its own, despite what the Fed does. Here's where I see the hangup, I don't think business cares about how many people are on food stamps or any other programs.
You cannot "forget the Fed". They control the money, the money is the problem. It really boils down to extremely bad Fed policy, coupled with extremely bad domestic policy. You cannot get passed the monetary mistakes, when your trying to fix monetary issues.

The people/businesses could fix it, but it would require a new currency which is out of the Fed and the government's control, true free markets are the only fix.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:19 AM   #15
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1 problem as I see it is that Americans aren't willing to pay for skilled labor, ie auto repair techs (qualified ones, not retards), or anything not involved with IT.
I don't think that is realy true...you pay what you have to to keep your car running, or to get your pipes fixed. The problem is that there are way too many people who are tapped out, due to the imbalance of wealth that Newb pointed out. If all of the money is all tied up at the top, then there is not enough money to keep the economy rolling along....IE not enough money to pay people the kind of wages needed to be able to afford to have your car fixed or your plumbing repaired. So they let things go as long as they can.
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Welcome to the Machine...... (I'm still a clown) this from Ponch (second time) who is supposed to be a moderator on this site....but of course if you disagree with him this is the sort of thing he does. It is simply amazing that anyone would give a guy who is so obviously childish and spiteful a position of authority.
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