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Old 02-20-2013, 06:49 AM   #1
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Bill O'Reilly (for XQIZT)

OK, XQIZT. As one of the reasonable semi-lefties on the board, I would like to show you a piece by Bill O'Reilly on his show last night. Compared to most FOX talking heads, Bill is a low-key, common sense kind of guy who just tells it like it is. In this editorial comment, he verbalizes the core concern of those of us on the right - even the moderate right like me - about the core change in the attitude of the citizens of this country, which is led by the Dems in general and Obama in particular. You could say that change is inevitable, but that doesn't make it good for the country. If you get 3:45 minutes (Bill's monologue) , watch this video and it will explain my responses to many, many threads on DC.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2176706583001/
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:46 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
OK, XQIZT. As one of the reasonable semi-lefties on the board...
I can vouch for this. When I met Doc, he was NOT wearing any aluminum foil on his dome.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:04 AM   #3
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I'll check it out when I get home! I've found that Bill CAN be reasonable when he is not in "hack mode." I think people forget that there is "real Bill" and "caricature Bil." At any rate, I'll give ya my thoughts after I watch this.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:37 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
OK, XQIZT. As one of the reasonable semi-lefties on the board, I would like to show you a piece by Bill O'Reilly on his show last night. Compared to most FOX talking heads, Bill is a low-key, common sense kind of guy who just tells it like it is. In this editorial comment, he verbalizes the core concern of those of us on the right - even the moderate right like me - about the core change in the attitude of the citizens of this country, which is led by the Dems in general and Obama in particular. You could say that change is inevitable, but that doesn't make it good for the country. If you get 3:45 minutes (Bill's monologue) , watch this video and it will explain my responses to many, many threads on DC.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2176706583001/

While this was aimed at XQIZT, Tex, I think I can add something to this from my view on the center right.

O Riely points to the a problem on paper...that being the national debt, but then says that in reallity the problem is us. He then goes on to talk about Obama's attack on the rich, and a lack of expections from the people for us, the people to be self reliant.

Now I do agree that we do all have a problem, but it is not exactly what O Riely claims it to be. The problem we all have is that we expect things from the government but then hate to pay the taxes to pay for those things. Now I know that many on the right claim that they want nothing from the government and that the government is the problem, but then they demand that thier Social Security not be touched, when what we pay into Social Security is a very small percentage of what the average person takes out. We all expect that if we go to an emergency room we will be treated without questions about our ability to pay. But those who don't pay have to be covered by the rest of us who do or hospitals could never survive, and we would all be in real trouble. When we reach old age, the vast majority of us would never be able to buy health insurance on the open market....we are just a very bad risk, when we get old. So if we couldn't get that insurance, virtualy all senior citizens at some point would lose everthing they had to a medical emergency. The vast majority of senior citizens would be very poor and even unable to pay for the next emergency that comes along, so again those of us who pay our medical bills would pay for them. That is where medicair comes in to provide a source of insurance for those seniors. Do we pay in enough over our lives to cover the true costs of that insurance??? Of course not, but we would be very angry if we were asked to pay the true costs.

So what do we do about this? Well unfortunatly for us people like O Riely make up straw men to place the blame for our problems on instead of pointing out that the problem lies within each one of us. He says that Obama has declared a war on the rich, and wants class warfare. And many on the right follow along and cheer him on, when the truth is that Obama has never declared war on the rich and does not want class warfare, he simply wants the rich to pay higher taxes. Now to Mr. O Riely, that may be a declaration of war, but of course in the glory days that he speaks of in his editorial, the rich payed a much higher percentage of the taxes, and no one complained. If we had those tax rates still today we would certainly have a much lower national debt, if we had one at all. Also durring those glory days of Mr. O Riely, when we went to war we were expected to sacrifice for the good of the country...but durring the last two wars, we were simply asked to keep shopping, and we did so without batting an eye or even asking if we shouldn't at least be paying a little more to fund the war.

Another favorite straw man of the right is the welfare queen. These people supposedly feed off of us and contribute nothing, while buying Cadilacs and living like kings. We have now added illegal immigrants into that mix, believing that illegals come here for our free benifits rather than to work. The truth of course is that Welfare was never as bad as we made it out to be but now it is even more difficult to get and what it does today is basicaly keep young children fed enough to survive. Of course we live by the one story of someone who got caught cheating the system and say you see, all of our tax dollars are going to these cheats...but of course the reason people get caught cheating is becaue they are breaking the rules and will pay for doing so.

Tex, O Riely is only painting the picture you and most republicans wish was the true problem, in this country. It would be easy if the problems in this country were truly other people who we could just take benifits away from, but the reason that the republican party keeps losing power is that the majority of people do not see the country as O Riely is painting it. They see the rich getting richer while our national debt goes way up and middle class earnings keep falling year after year. They see CEOs who make billion dollar salaries while the companies they run lose value and are run horribly....and then lay off thousands of workers to make themselves look more appealing to wallstreet. The republican party clings to the tired theory that if you let the rich keep more of their money it will trickle down to the rest of the people....but that has never happened and the money just gets stuck at the top, with less and less for everyone else. But when anyone suggests raising taxes on the rich, it is called class warfare and unjust, even though when Bill Clinton raised those taxes our economy worked as well or better than at any time before, and after Bush cut those taxes we sank into slugishness and ultimatly the worst economy since the great depresion.

Now you can hide your head in the sand and point to oversimplified explainations of how this was an aberation or how that was an exception, but the truth is that the majority of the people see the truth, and they do not see what Mr. O Riely says is the truth.


Tex you can take this editorial of Mr. O Reily's as a blanket to keep you warm in your beliefe that everything you have been led to believe is true and that the right, as it stands today, holds the path to salvation, or you can wake up to the truth, that what O Reily and people like him keep telling you is a lie, that has caused a huge imbalance, that hurts us all and will in the end cause the destruction of the repuiblican party, which will bring with it a huge swing of the pendulum to a scenarion of too high a tax burden on the rich, instead of too low a one, and much more pain for higher earners like you and me, than if we just paid a little more today.

I hope you consider what I said here and think about it with an open mind and open eyes.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by the machine View Post
While this was aimed at XQIZT, Tex, I think I can add something to this from my view on the center right.

O Riely points to the a problem on paper...that being the national debt, but then says that in reallity the problem is us. He then goes on to talk about Obama's attack on the rich, and a lack of expections from the people for us, the people to be self reliant.

Now I do agree that we do all have a problem, but it is not exactly what O Riely claims it to be. The problem we all have is that we expect things from the government but then hate to pay the taxes to pay for those things. Now I know that many on the right claim that they want nothing from the government and that the government is the problem, but then they demand that thier Social Security not be touched, when what we pay into Social Security is a very small percentage of what the average person takes out. We all expect that if we go to an emergency room we will be treated without questions about our ability to pay. But those who don't pay have to be covered by the rest of us who do or hospitals could never survive, and we would all be in real trouble. When we reach old age, the vast majority of us would never be able to buy health insurance on the open market....we are just a very bad risk, when we get old. So if we couldn't get that insurance, virtualy all senior citizens at some point would lose everthing they had to a medical emergency. The vast majority of senior citizens would be very poor and even unable to pay for the next emergency that comes along, so again those of us who pay our medical bills would pay for them. That is where medicair comes in to provide a source of insurance for those seniors. Do we pay in enough over our lives to cover the true costs of that insurance??? Of course not, but we would be very angry if we were asked to pay the true costs.

So what do we do about this? Well unfortunatly for us people like O Riely make up straw men to place the blame for our problems on instead of pointing out that the problem lies within each one of us. He says that Obama has declared a war on the rich, and wants class warfare. And many on the right follow along and cheer him on, when the truth is that Obama has never declared war on the rich and does not want class warfare, he simply wants the rich to pay higher taxes. Now to Mr. O Riely, that may be a declaration of war, but of course in the glory days that he speaks of in his editorial, the rich payed a much higher percentage of the taxes, and no one complained. If we had those tax rates still today we would certainly have a much lower national debt, if we had one at all. Also durring those glory days of Mr. O Riely, when we went to war we were expected to sacrifice for the good of the country...but durring the last two wars, we were simply asked to keep shopping, and we did so without batting an eye or even asking if we shouldn't at least be paying a little more to fund the war.

Another favorite straw man of the right is the welfare queen. These people supposedly feed off of us and contribute nothing, while buying Cadilacs and living like kings. We have now added illegal immigrants into that mix, believing that illegals come here for our free benifits rather than to work. The truth of course is that Welfare was never as bad as we made it out to be but now it is even more difficult to get and what it does today is basicaly keep young children fed enough to survive. Of course we live by the one story of someone who got caught cheating the system and say you see, all of our tax dollars are going to these cheats...but of course the reason people get caught cheating is becaue they are breaking the rules and will pay for doing so.

Tex, O Riely is only painting the picture you and most republicans wish was the true problem, in this country. It would be easy if the problems in this country were truly other people who we could just take benifits away from, but the reason that the republican party keeps losing power is that the majority of people do not see the country as O Riely is painting it. They see the rich getting richer while our national debt goes way up and middle class earnings keep falling year after year. They see CEOs who make billion dollar salaries while the companies they run lose value and are run horribly....and then lay off thousands of workers to make themselves look more appealing to wallstreet. The republican party clings to the tired theory that if you let the rich keep more of their money it will trickle down to the rest of the people....but that has never happened and the money just gets stuck at the top, with less and less for everyone else. But when anyone suggests raising taxes on the rich, it is called class warfare and unjust, even though when Bill Clinton raised those taxes our economy worked as well or better than at any time before, and after Bush cut those taxes we sank into slugishness and ultimatly the worst economy since the great depresion.

Now you can hide your head in the sand and point to oversimplified explainations of how this was an aberation or how that was an exception, but the truth is that the majority of the people see the truth, and they do not see what Mr. O Riely says is the truth.


Tex you can take this editorial of Mr. O Reily's as a blanket to keep you warm in your beliefe that everything you have been led to believe is true and that the right, as it stands today, holds the path to salvation, or you can wake up to the truth, that what O Reily and people like him keep telling you is a lie, that has caused a huge imbalance, that hurts us all and will in the end cause the destruction of the repuiblican party, which will bring with it a huge swing of the pendulum to a scenarion of too high a tax burden on the rich, instead of too low a one, and much more pain for higher earners like you and me, than if we just paid a little more today.

I hope you consider what I said here and think about it with an open mind and open eyes.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. Yes, we all want a lot and we don't want to pay for it. But you missed the main point of the editorial. He kind of passed over the fiscal problem, and so do I. The problem behind the problem is how little we expect of ourselves, our children and our neighbors. We used to EXPECT our children to have a serious side, to prepare for the future and to work starting in teen years to learn the value of a dollar. And it wasn't just middle class people, poor people expected the same thing from their kids so that they wouldn't always be poor. But now, as a society, we don't want our kids burdened with homework, we pass them through school with little hard knowledge of any value (math, science), and we teach them that breakfast, lunch and dinner should come from the government. Where do you think they will suppose it comes from when they get older? The problem, in O'Reilly's view, and mine, is that all of us used to expect that everyone would carry as much of their load as possible. That has subtley changed, and the Dems and Obama have used the prolonged recession to get more middle class people to buy into the idea that if they can't get what they want on their own, then government will supply it. Liberals WANT people to believe that because it shifts the power from individuals to the government. This country has ALWAYS been about hard work, struggling through hard times, and building a life for one's self, followed by bringing up the next generation to do the same thing. If you truly believe that a society that expects little effort to train one's self, little hard work, and no responsibility to contribute to society, and that in the absence of all of those efforts, government will continually mail a free check, you deserve the country you get. Countries prosper when they are productive and only when they are productive. Too many in our society have decided to be content not being productive and content to let the few remaining productive people support them. This is unsustainable. You missed the point of his editorial completely. He isn't talking about fiscal details. He's talking about an entire societal mindset that is going to lead us to third class category.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:14 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by the machine View Post
but then they demand that thier Social Security not be touched, when what we pay into Social Security is a very small percentage of what the average person takes out.
Just had to address this one separately because you say this often, and you happen to be incorrect. Here are the numbers from 2010:
Average lifetime payments through taxes for SS/Medicare: $345,000
Average lifetime benefits received for SS/Medicare:
$417,000

At first blush, it looks like we got $72k in free money. But go back to age 20 and make the same contributions over 35 years, and with compound interest it would be closer to $1M available. So your contention that seniors are demanding some kind of free ride is utterly wrong. SS and Medicare do not belong in the entitlement category because they are paid for and the return is less than should be expected. You make a lot of good points when you talk about what we want vs. what we are willing to pay. This isn't one of them.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. Yes, we all want a lot and we don't want to pay for it. But you missed the main point of the editorial. He kind of passed over the fiscal problem, and so do I. The problem behind the problem is how little we expect of ourselves, our children and our neighbors. We used to EXPECT our children to have a serious side, to prepare for the future and to work starting in teen years to learn the value of a dollar. And it wasn't just middle class people, poor people expected the same thing from their kids so that they wouldn't always be poor. But now, as a society, we don't want our kids burdened with homework, we pass them through school with little hard knowledge of any value (math, science), and we teach them that breakfast, lunch and dinner should come from the government. Where do you think they will suppose it comes from when they get older? The problem, in O'Reilly's view, and mine, is that all of us used to expect that everyone would carry as much of their load as possible. That has subtley changed, and the Dems and Obama have used the prolonged recession to get more middle class people to buy into the idea that if they can't get what they want on their own, then government will supply it. Liberals WANT people to believe that because it shifts the power from individuals to the government. This country has ALWAYS been about hard work, struggling through hard times, and building a life for one's self, followed by bringing up the next generation to do the same thing. If you truly believe that a society that expects little effort to train one's self, little hard work, and no responsibility to contribute to society, and that in the absence of all of those efforts, government will continually mail a free check, you deserve the country you get. Countries prosper when they are productive and only when they are productive. Too many in our society have decided to be content not being productive and content to let the few remaining productive people support them. This is unsustainable. You missed the point of his editorial completely. He isn't talking about fiscal details. He's talking about an entire societal mindset that is going to lead us to third class category.
I saw the segement and totally agree with what you've taken from it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
Just had to address this one separately because you say this often, and you happen to be incorrect. Here are the numbers from 2010:
Average lifetime payments through taxes for SS/Medicare: $345,000
Average lifetime benefits received for SS/Medicare:
$417,000

At first blush, it looks like we got $72k in free money. But go back to age 20 and make the same contributions over 35 years, and with compound interest it would be closer to $1M available. So your contention that seniors are demanding some kind of free ride is utterly wrong. SS and Medicare do not belong in the entitlement category because they are paid for and the return is less than should be expected. You make a lot of good points when you talk about what we want vs. what we are willing to pay. This isn't one of them.
Defusing another liberal misconception.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:55 PM   #9
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O'Reilly can have bouts with reality on occasion
and I think this is one of those times.

Massachusetts is a good example and California is
probably one of the best examples.

I have come to conclusion that liberals actually
believe that government benevolence is so noble,
that if we crash (and we will) it will have been a noble
effort that was worth the it. However, once the reality
of the crash is truly seen, they will have 2nd thoughts
and wonder why their noble effort failed.

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Old 02-20-2013, 02:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. Yes, we all want a lot and we don't want to pay for it. But you missed the main point of the editorial. He kind of passed over the fiscal problem, and so do I. The problem behind the problem is how little we expect of ourselves, our children and our neighbors. We used to EXPECT our children to have a serious side, to prepare for the future and to work starting in teen years to learn the value of a dollar. And it wasn't just middle class people, poor people expected the same thing from their kids so that they wouldn't always be poor. But now, as a society, we don't want our kids burdened with homework, we pass them through school with little hard knowledge of any value (math, science), and we teach them that breakfast, lunch and dinner should come from the government. Where do you think they will suppose it comes from when they get older? The problem, in O'Reilly's view, and mine, is that all of us used to expect that everyone would carry as much of their load as possible. That has subtley changed, and the Dems and Obama have used the prolonged recession to get more middle class people to buy into the idea that if they can't get what they want on their own, then government will supply it. Liberals WANT people to believe that because it shifts the power from individuals to the government. This country has ALWAYS been about hard work, struggling through hard times, and building a life for one's self, followed by bringing up the next generation to do the same thing. If you truly believe that a society that expects little effort to train one's self, little hard work, and no responsibility to contribute to society, and that in the absence of all of those efforts, government will continually mail a free check, you deserve the country you get. Countries prosper when they are productive and only when they are productive. Too many in our society have decided to be content not being productive and content to let the few remaining productive people support them. This is unsustainable. You missed the point of his editorial completely. He isn't talking about fiscal details. He's talking about an entire societal mindset that is going to lead us to third class category.
Tex, just to make sure I really understood what O Reily was saying, I watched the video again.

Yes he speaks about how our parents were more self sufficient, and how our kids were taught to be also, but that has not really changed at all. The truth of the matter is that we as a people are more productive than we were 10 years ago. We work more hours and take less vacation than any other peope in the world, yet we as a people are getting less every year for that work. Our kids have to learn much more today than we had to and they have just as much if not more homework than we had. A study conducted by the university of michigan showed that time spent on homework was up by 51% since 1981. And many nations that outperform the US on student achievement tests such as Japan, Denmark and the Czeck Republic tend to assign less homework than American teachers.

So If we are working harder, and more hours, getting paid less, and our kids are studying longer than when we were growing up, how are we not pulling our weight???? How can there be more unproductive people depending on the few who are still productive??? We are the 3rd most productive country in the world today....up from 9th in 2005. How can that happen when the majority of us are not pulling our weight????

Again O Reily depends on lots of myths and outright lies. He has often railed against a book written by two moms who think that our kids are burdened by too much homework, and seems to use that book as evidence that our kids and parrents are getting soft, but the fact is that our kids are doing more not less homework. So again O Reily builds up a strawman and then proceeds to attack it as though it truly exists, while in fact it does not.

The same goes for student breakfast and lunch...these programs are there for a few poor students who otherwise would not eat, and therefor would disrupt the classes they are in. This is not some huge percentage but it gets blown way out of proportion.

I think that O Reily's claim that the left wants people to depend on them is a similar strawman built up to excuse the poor performance of the right. The left has been willing to extend unemployment and food stamps because they believe that this helps the economy recover by allowing those out of work to continue to purchase necessities, which they believe halts the downward spiral. I suppose this theory could be disputed but I have heard quite a few economists who support this theory. But regardless of the merits of their theory, I believe that they are honest in the hopes of this policy to help the economy, and it does seem to have helped. But to paint it as a political move meant to make people dependent on government puts more doubt in peoples mind about republican methods, and motives than in those of the left, and a growing majority of voters are not happy about this line of attack.

And that is the crux of the problem with the right today. They are working with flawed and false data. They are working on assumptions that are only true in their own minds and the an ever growing majority is seeing through the lies and false equivelancies that people like O Riely put up everyday, for the consumption of the right wing, who hunger for words that support their world view instead of facts and truth, which might lead them to see things differently, and come up with better solutions.

O Reily paints those days after WWII, as a time of perfection where all the women were pretty and all the children above average....but there were plenty of problems beside the few he points out about race. Our men came home to new reallities. Women had gone to work and weren't happy about going back home for good. Many of our men came home to lives they could never go back to after what they lived through and many became drunks, and gang members, and even moved to drugs. Our very high drop out rates started in those days and the questions about the honor of war and dying for ones country began to be asked then. So again, O Reily paints a false picture that those days were so much better than today....but the truth is again seen by an ever growing majority and they do not agree with O Reily or the right.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:36 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
Just had to address this one separately because you say this often, and you happen to be incorrect. Here are the numbers from 2010:
Average lifetime payments through taxes for SS/Medicare: $345,000
Average lifetime benefits received for SS/Medicare:
$417,000

At first blush, it looks like we got $72k in free money. But go back to age 20 and make the same contributions over 35 years, and with compound interest it would be closer to $1M available. So your contention that seniors are demanding some kind of free ride is utterly wrong. SS and Medicare do not belong in the entitlement category because they are paid for and the return is less than should be expected. You make a lot of good points when you talk about what we want vs. what we are willing to pay. This isn't one of them.
I did not contend nor do I continue to contend that seniors are getting a free ride, but your math is flawed. The numbers you cite are in 2010 constant dollars, so if you add compound interest you are doubling the interest gains. There is already a 2% interest rate adjustment per year, and compounded at that rate. If you look at actual dollars the amount you contributed is far less than the $345,000 you quoted. ( just as an example, in 1967 the avarage income was $2464, so the full contribution would have been only $370. If you take the $345,000 and divide it by 45 years it comes out to $7666.66. If you take the average wage today of $45,000 and take the SS contribution of 15% paid by you and your employer, it comes out to $6750. The difference is the interest and compounding.)

But besides that issue, you have to understand how Social security works to see the flaw in that thinking. Had Social security been started as a government sponsored retirement plan, we would probably not have any issues with SS. But it was not stated as such. It was started durring a time when senior citizens were starving to death in the streets, because they had lost thier life savings in banks that went bust. The system was created to take the money from people who were working and pay it to those people. When the time came for those who had paid for the first seniors, to retire, the payments to them came from those who were still working. So there can not be compounding of interest and there actualy were seniors who got a free ride....but they are long gone.

Now add to that the fact, that if at anytime in your life you had become disabled you would have been supported by SS, or that if you died, your dependents would have been supported, and you start to see that the meager amount we pay into this system is a bargain compared to the benifit.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:51 PM   #12
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And that is the crux of the problem with the right today. They are working with flawed and false data. They are working on assumptions that are only true in their own minds and the an ever growing majority is seeing through the lies and false equivelancies that people like O Riely put up everyday, for the consumption of the right wing, who hunger for words that support their world view instead of facts and truth, which might lead them to see things differently, and come up with better solutions.
We will just disagree on this. I've already pointed out the fallacy that SS is some kind of windfall for seniors. How about your statement that Federal lunch programs are just for a few poor students? Wikipedia says 30.5 million students get this every day. There were 54.7 millions students enrolled K-12 in all schools public and private in 2011. You still want to pretend that we don't have a society that leans toward expecting the government to handle the day to day needs that all but the least able should be able to handle themselves? Do you believe that more than 50% of parents in this country are incapable of sending a sandwich to school with their kids? This is what O'Reilly is talking about across the board and you want to pretend this is all made up by the right. For some reason, you have a preconceived notion that you are conservative, but everyone on the right is evil and a liar. Well, the ones who are ruining our population are the ones who want to win, group by group, voters minds by giving handouts and making dependents out of them. If you can't see that, you are blind.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by the machine View Post
I did not contend nor do I continue to contend that seniors are getting a free ride, but your math is flawed. The numbers you cite are in 2010 constant dollars, so if you add compound interest you are doubling the interest gains. There is already a 2% interest rate adjustment per year, and compounded at that rate. If you look at actual dollars the amount you contributed is far less than the $345,000 you quoted. ( just as an example, in 1967 the avarage income was $2464, so the full contribution would have been only $370.)

But besides that issue, you have to understand how Social security works to see the flaw in that thinking. Had Social security been started as a government sponsored retirement plan, we would probably not have any issues with SS. But it was not stated as such. It was started durring a time when senior citizens were starving to death in the streets, because they had lost thier life savings in banks that went bust. The system was created to take the money from people who were working and pay it to those people. When the time came for those who had paid for the first seniors, to retire, the payments to them came from those who were still working. So there can not be compounding of interest and there actualy were seniors who got a free ride....but they are long gone.

Now add to that the fact, that if at anytime in your life you had become disabled you would have been supported by SS, or that if you died, your dependents would have been supported, and you start to see that the meager amount we pay into this system is a bargain compared to the benifit.
Yes, there are potential benefits to people who become disable early. But they are a small percentage of people who collect SS. Regardless of how the numbers are handled, people in 2010 had put $345k into SS/MC. If they had been putting that money into any interest bearing account for 35 years, it would have been significantly more. That's all I'm saying. You first said that people only pay a small fraction of what they get out. I showed that is not true.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
Yes, there are potential benefits to people who become disable early. But they are a small percentage of people who collect SS. Regardless of how the numbers are handled, people in 2010 had put $345k into SS/MC. If they had been putting that money into any interest bearing account for 35 years, it would have been significantly more. That's all I'm saying. You first said that people only pay a small fraction of what they get out. I showed that is not true.
Tex, it's true if you look at real dollars rather than 2010 dollars. Again Like I said in 1967 the average pay was only $2464. If you take the 15% which back then it was lower, you only actualy contributed $370. But the number of $345,000 divided by 35 years comes out to a yearly contribution of $9857.14. So that means that you would have had to contribute that much every year since 1978. And the actual contribuition was far less than that. The average today is only $6750.

PS: In 1978 the average income was $6455. the SS contribution would have been $968.25. Again this is real dollars not 2010 dollars.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texdentist View Post
We will just disagree on this. I've already pointed out the fallacy that SS is some kind of windfall for seniors. How about your statement that Federal lunch programs are just for a few poor students? Wikipedia says 30.5 million students get this every day. There were 54.7 millions students enrolled K-12 in all schools public and private in 2011. You still want to pretend that we don't have a society that leans toward expecting the government to handle the day to day needs that all but the least able should be able to handle themselves? Do you believe that more than 50% of parents in this country are incapable of sending a sandwich to school with their kids? This is what O'Reilly is talking about across the board and you want to pretend this is all made up by the right. For some reason, you have a preconceived notion that you are conservative, but everyone on the right is evil and a liar. Well, the ones who are ruining our population are the ones who want to win, group by group, voters minds by giving handouts and making dependents out of them. If you can't see that, you are blind.
According to this article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/30/ed...anted=all&_r=0 the number is up to 21 million (not 30.5 million) form 18 million in 2006-07. This says it's due to the poor economy.

By the way that also includes reduced price lunches which is the majority of the program, and the free breakfast and lunch number is far lower.
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