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5 Speed swap for 84-88 Corvettes

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37K views 64 replies 33 participants last post by  danilericardo  
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#1 ·
I've been working on the R&D on 5 speed "T5" swaps in C4 corvettes for a few months now, and working with a company called Pro Street Customs who has designed a CBEAM adapter bracket based on my specifications. This bracket will be available by the end of next week for purchase for about $175 / shipped.

The specifics are:

1) A T5 transmission uses the same 4+3 bellhousing/clutch/driveshaft
2) A T5 bolted to a 4+3 bellhousing is the same length as a 700R4, making auto-stick swaps cost effective now
3) You do not need to modify the CBEAM, just use the adapter
4) The shifter can be modified to be offset and line up with the shifter plate
5) T5 transmissions average used cost is about $250

I've been working on a writeup for the swap. Some of the part #'s listed in the writeup are wrong, but within about a week or so the writeup will be 100% correct.

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/f-car-t5/


Any questions?

-- Joe
 
#11 ·
Hmmm......I'll be book marking this for later reference. :thumbsup:

Very nice. :cheers:
 
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#14 ·
very intersting and timely thread- I am currently thinking about swapping out my auto for a manual!

My only thoughts are this; as an active member of numerous Ford & Mustang forums as well, T-5's don't come highly respected when it comes to taking any kind of abuse even behind 5 liter engines (thats why I put a Tremec 3550 in my mustang), so I would be somewhat leary of using the T-5 in a vette but would definatley consider a 3550 or TKO.
 
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#16 ·
Good work and good question regarding the tourqe capabilities.

Can the T5 be "built" to handle higher torque? Whats the cost (approx) to uses a Tremec?

Definately interested and keeping an eye on this one.
 
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#17 ·
For about $900 you can build a T5 to handle upwards of 500foot lbs of torque gear wise. You can purchase steel bearing retainers which help with case flex.

In a 3600lbs fbody with a solid rear axle, you are more likely to break a T5 with a 500HP engine. In a 3200lbs C4 with IRS, you have a lot more things that can break from shock than the T5.

I know I hear a lot of people say "my friends sisters dogs friends owner had a 4cyl mustang with a T5 and broke it!!!" Well, we can't keep Mustangs and Camaro's out of 16 year olds hands, but I can tell you this. My supercharged singleplane firebird with 26" slicks, a RAM ceramic 6-padal clutch, and T5, with a race weight of 3650lbs ran 119-120mph EVERY PASS in the 1/4 for a few seasons, and never ran slower than 110mph with the TPI setup the first few seasons with NO breaking. I've come to the conclusion its not the torque or HP, its the driver. You drive like an idiot, grind gears, etc - your gonna break it.

-- Joe
 
#19 ·
Great post Joe. Proves that not all pioneers get arrows in their backs ... some find gold. Unfortunately, after almost 20 years, my 87 with a 4+3 went up in smoke. But I'll bet there will be more than a couple of DC C4 owners waiting for that conversion write up. :thumbsup:
 
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#20 ·
Sounds great to me!

Please let me know when you have a kit all together I will deffenently get one. I have a 87 4+3 and when I get home It will have a supercharger going on it, And I wanted to change the trany cause the O/D is going out in it.

Once I get it all together I'll tell you how it does.
 
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#23 ·
It will probably have two sets of holes, according to Pro Street. The reason is, the 4+3 and 700R4 cbeams have different front hole spacing. We're trying to make this so you don't have to drill/grind/cut/weld a thing.

The prototype bracket in the pics is also missing the exhaust hanger mount point. That will be in the production adapter.

I need to talk to you at some point about dash swaps. A neighbor of yours has offered to trade me the dash out of his '90.


-- Joe
 
#25 ·
AFTER youve done the R&D necessary,and when you get the swap done could you post a few pictures, comments and dimensions?
WHY?

WELL,theres a bunch of guys at any site that won,t approch a major project without detailed instructions (with pictures) before they start for fear they might acctually need to fabricate or modify something rather than having just a parts list and a simple bolt in procedure to follow.:crazy: many of the GURUS on some sites have NEVER custom built a part in thier lives and many have never rebuilt an engine or even swapped a trans, or rear differential.

BTW TRUE hotrodders are the few guys who are willing too TRY something NEW and differant, not the guys who only buy a couple parts to replace the O.E.M. s stuff. so keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

if you get stuck in the swap post your questions and Ill try to give you a link to the correct addapter or supplier

EXAMPLE
theres links here

http://www.corrado-club.com/corrado/garage/auto5.cfm

http://harvii.tripod.com/trans/transmissionswap.html



http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125123&highlight=swap

BTW heres some sources for parts and info :thumbsup:

http://www.drivetrain.com/driveline_angle_problem.html

http://www.tdperformance.com/TransDapt.html

http://www2.dana.com/expert/wc.dll?DSD~dedsec~2~13~06~

http://www.drivewerks.com/tech/physic_of_racing.htm

http://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-transm...tification.php

http://andersonimprovements.com/hobb...rentialid.html

http://www.maliburacing.com/tech_rearend_swaps.html

http://www.carnut.com/specs/rear.html

http://www.carnut.com/specs/engdim.html

http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/leadfoot/trans.htm

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~wbainey/BMW.htm

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Datsun_Z_V-8.html

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pparas...riveshaft_loop

http://www.enjenjo.com/9inch.html

http://driveshaftmasters.com/troubleshootingshafts.html

http://www.advanceadapters.com/

http://www.engineswaps.com/

http://www.geocities.com/z28esser/length.html

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/PRC01

http://www.badasscars.com/techtips.html


http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/
 
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#26 ·
grumpyvette said:
AFTER youve done the R&D necessary,and when you get the swap done could you post a few pictures, comments and dimensions?
WHY?

WELL,theres a bunch of guys at any site that won,t approch a major project without detailed instructions (with pictures) before they start for fear they might acctually need to fabricate or modify something rather than having just a parts list and a simple bolt in procedure to follow.:crazy: many of the GURUS on some sites have NEVER custom built a part in thier lives and many have never rebuilt an engine or even swapped a trans, or rear differential.

BTW TRUE hotrodders are the few guys who are willing too TRY something NEW and differant, not the guys who only buy a couple parts to replace the O.E.M. s stuff. so keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

if you get stuck in the swap post your questions and Ill try to give you a link to the correct addapter or supplier
Click to expand...
Things have been going well so far. If you look at the link in my first thread, I've been working my way through a how-to with dimensions and pictures, step by steps. I ran into a small snag with the length. I must have goofed a measurement. The T5 + bell housing comes out to 31 inches. Apparently the 700R4 is not 31 as well. (I coulda sworn it was, I measured it like 4 times). However, My cbeam adapter holes are off by about an inch, and the driveshaft needs brute force to get in the yoke. I'm going to have to have my driveshaft shortened by an inch to be safe.

Otherwise things are going well. I've got a few guys on the other board
following my progress. Most of the "guru's" over there stopped bothering me
lately. It's kinda funny how some people get idolized on these sites.

Thanks for the encouragement.

-- Joe
 
M
#27 ·
I like this! The reason I own an auto is because I couldn't afford a car new enough to have a 6 speed and didn't like the 4+3. I'd totally take a 5 speed though....
 
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#28 ·
For about $1,000 you could do the T5 swap with a bunch of new parts.
This covers all the conversion parts, clutch/flywheel, etc. Could be a little more, or a little less.

Once you've done the swap, if you break a T5 it would only be $100-250 to buy another one. If you decide you absolutely hate the thing, you cold buy a TKO-500 with an offset shifter for like $2200, and get someone to rework the cbeam bracket. The clutch/hydraulics/flywheel/bellhousing/ can all be re-used.

It's really a win-win situation no matter how you look at it.

-- Joe
 
M
#29 ·
$1000 is pretty affordable really. What's involved in installing a clutch pedal? Just get all the stock 4+3 parts and mod to fit? Don't worry, I'm not afraid of cutting and welding if anything is required.
 
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#30 ·
Yes. Get all the 4+3 stuff - pedals, hydraulics, bell housing, clutch, flywheel, hardware, driveshaft. Then instead of using a 4+3 w/shifter, use a T5 w/shifter + cbeam adapter.

If you look at my swap article, I have pretty much everything listed, and at the bottom I have links to suppliers for clutches, flywheels, etc. Driveshaft is like $50 from vette2vette + shipping. Infact, I recommend calling Jason at vette2vette for everything. His prices seem VERY realistic.

-- Joe
 
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#32 ·
Eureka!

I WANT TO DO THIS! Never dreamed I could get rid of my auto and hang a clutch! Have sent your article to my shop here in Hawaii and will see what they say. Eureka! -Wm. Pila Chiles (retired in Hawaii. Love my C4 just wish I had the late dash but with a stick I'd still be in hog heaven!):thumbsup:
 
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#33 ·
Pila said:
I WANT TO DO THIS! Never dreamed I could get rid of my auto and hang a clutch! Have sent your article to my shop here in Hawaii and will see what they say. Eureka! -Wm. Pila Chiles (retired in Hawaii. Love my C4 just wish I had the late dash but with a stick I'd still be in hog heaven!):thumbsup:
Click to expand...
It's do-able, and works well. The way you have to modify the shifter is fairly lame, but what can ya do. It was cheap. Selling the 700R4 and converter paid for most of it.

-- Joe
 
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#34 ·
88 Vette 5 speed Stickshift conversion

You can use the automatic shifter?! Wow, this floors me. My big question is how do you hang the clutch pedal? Are you making the mechanism?

You remind me of our saying in the old days, "I've been working with so little for so long I now feel like I'm qualified to do anything using nothing.":thud:
 
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#35 ·
Pila said:
You can use the automatic shifter?! Wow, this floors me. My big question is how do you hang the clutch pedal? Are you making the mechanism?

You remind me of our saying in the old days, "I've been working with so little for so long I now feel like I'm qualified to do anything using nothing.":thud:
Click to expand...
No No No. You need to modify a fbody or s10 or mustang shifter. Cut a hole in the floor, etc. Read the article. You use 4+3 pedals and hydraulics, bellhousing, etc.

-- Joe
 
#37 · (Edited)
Great info, I like the fact you can use the 4+3 BH, I recall a guy out in California that I spoke to,, he has a speed shop,, and he claimed he could make the T5 stronger than a ZF,, but he could not help me with a retrofit.

I'll try to find my correspondence with him

Oh yeah, had this

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/12/T5Rebuild/index.php

EDIT: Stupid question, what is the difference betwen the GM/T5 and the Ford T5 ?
 
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#38 ·
Ford has different front splines, different output splines, and the shifter is in a slightly different location. Requires way too much to make it work. The whole idea of "cost effective" kinda goes out the window.

Btw, what is the length of the ZF ?

-- Joe
 
#39 ·
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