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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-26-2007 02:17 PM
Explorer_97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebrock View Post
What are you talking about, this guy is one of the better known auto journalists in Detroit.
Well known and respectable are two very different things.

Also there are certainly NO plans for GM to produce a version of the Cien or Sixteen. The XLR will live on however.
01-26-2007 11:12 AM
Longtimer GM's plan for Cadillac is to take the brand head to head against Mercedes world wide. Several fancy Cad / Vette dealerships have been opened in various places in Europe. Cad justified an addition to the Vette Bowling Green plant with an annual expectation of 7-8,000 XLR units. Although a fine car, the XLR has not won the hearts of Auto Journalists, nor the consumer. Annual sales volumes have been around 2,000 units for the past two years. Rumors that the XLR is about to be cancelled have been circulating at BG for many months.

Cad can not take the marketing hit of canceling the XLR and attain its ultimate goal. However, the costly, currently under used, separate BG production line must be shared by at least one other vehicle. Some auto journalists say that ANY Cad sports car that shares the "base" vette chassis will not be successful selling against the SL500.

The Cien, which debuted at the 2002 NAIAS, as you see, is still a handsome design. The mechanicals, which include a direct injected, DOD DOHC V-12 producing 750HP, are not exactly out of date either. The concept was built as a completely streetable car. Converting it to production would not be as expensive or time consuming as starting with a clean sheet of paper. GM could choose to accept the losses of the XLR until it can be replaced with a Cien-based model.

And, my fellow DCers, if this happens, it is inevitable that a top level Corvette will be based on the same platform - someday. Does this mean that the Corvette you and I drive today will be replaced by a Cien-based platform. IMO, absolutely not - nor do I believe that anyone at GM is seriously proposing this - other than an accountant or two. I call this rumor BS or just a misinterpretation of what is happening. Yes, the C7 could be a rear middy. No the C7 is not the REPLACEMENT for the C6. The C8 will replace the C6. The C7 will be the $100k car. This is what happens when ?Corvette becomes a multi model lineup!!!

However, I will be surprised if they could get the Cien-based platform ready in time for the Blue Devil. A LOT of track time would be needed to tune a Cien-based car = rear middy. Whereas a blue devil based on at the front middy platform could require only addition refinements.

If there is arguing about the rear middy today (or two months ago when that article likely went to press), IMO it is unlikely that we are 12-18 months away from a rear middy Blue Devil. Also IMO, the REAL decision that will determine if the vette lineup will include a rear middy will be linked directly to the future of a Cad Sports car.
01-26-2007 08:11 AM
jsk06C6
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUTHPAW View Post
The Cien concept was out years before The Island... I think it debuted in the year 2001 or so, and the movie came out in 2005.
OK, in that case put me on the list for the 700hp version from the movie!!!
01-26-2007 08:05 AM
turbo_tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsk06C6 View Post
The middle one is from the movie island. I didn't think GM loans out cars for movies, so my guess is it was made FOR the movie.
The Cien concept was out years before The Island... I think it debuted in the year 2001 or so, and the movie came out in 2005.
01-26-2007 07:58 AM
georgejetson
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebrock View Post
As far as the blurb, they are talking about a rear mid engine in small quantities just to tell other manufacturer's FU and the rest being front mid.
There are other rumors suggesting that all of the C7s will be rear-mid, which makes a lot more sense business-wise. The obvious leap from there is that the XLR will be replaced by something like the Cien, and it's possible that that's a key driver for the business case. I don't see GM in its current state being able to sell the Board (or even Lutz) on two separate premium sports car platforms, even if one is handbuilt in tiny volumes. I see this as an up-or-down thing -- either all of the C7s and the next Cadillac sports car will be rear-mid, or they won't, period.

DeLorenzo gets most of his "insider" tidbits off of message boards, FYI, same as the rest of us. Allpar busts him on it all the time.
01-26-2007 06:32 AM
sebrock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Explorer_97 View Post


Calling him respectable is like calling his story true. Neither are correct.
What are you talking about, this guy is one of the better known auto journalists in Detroit.
01-26-2007 05:56 AM
midnite902
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgejetson View Post
Only to people who've never driven a real mid-engine-behind-the-driver car hard.

If they can bring it in at something close to current Vette prices, I'm all for it.
Or to someone that has attempted to drive a mid-engine-behind-the-driver car in inclimate weather or someone who has been rear ended in a mid-engine-behind-the-driver car, or someone who has had a medium to high speed frontal crash in a mid-engine-behind-the-driver car or someone who has ridden in the noisy cockpit of a mid-engine-behind-the-driver car.

Sorry owned a couple of mid-engine-behind-the-driver cars. For the avarage Corvette customer, the advantages of a mid engined car are dwarfed by the the long list of disadvantages of a mid-engine-behind-the-driver design.

Never happen IMO. GM will not risk losing most of their current customer base.

01-26-2007 05:01 AM
jsk06C6 The middle one is from the movie island. I didn't think GM loans out cars for movies, so my guess is it was made FOR the movie.
01-26-2007 03:14 AM
MORVETTES
Quote:
Originally Posted by vettonator View Post
I think they should try to come up with a better name for the caddy though.
Any word on what the engine will be?
Cien is Spanish for 100,it was made to celebrate Caddy's 100th Anniversary. The engine is a 750hp Northstar V12,but I don't know what if will have if it's produced.
01-26-2007 02:51 AM
vettonator One word about the Cien: WOW. I've seen the XLR, I just didn't know the name. I thought the XLR was cool untill I saw the Cien. Now I agree with you,-scrap the XLR and start building the Cien and the rear/mid engine 'Vette.
I think they should try to come up with a better name for the caddy though.
Any word on what the engine will be?
01-26-2007 02:19 AM
MORVETTES
Quote:
Originally Posted by vettonator View Post
What the heck are these other cars that you're mentioning?
XLR
CIEN SIXTEEN I'm saying the top one (XLR) shares platforms and is built along side the C6. GM is rumored to have future plans for the bottom two (Cien,Sixteen).If they fade out the XLR they will have a open assembly line at the Bowling Green plant. They could build the Cien on that line and share it's mid engine platform with the Corvette SS.
01-26-2007 12:59 AM
vettonator
Quote:
Originally Posted by MORVETTES View Post
Where is moore rb? He posted this rumor before the C6 was out. I'd love to see this car happen,keep the base and Z06 front mid-engine for the masses,then make the SS rear mid. I read GM still has plans to build the Cien and a version of the Sixteen. So you fade out the XLR,and build a (shared platformed) Mid engine SS Corvette,and a Cien on the XLR's assembly line.
What the heck are these other cars that you're mentioning?
01-26-2007 12:37 AM
MORVETTES Where is moore rb? He posted this rumor before the C6 was out. I'd love to see this car happen,keep the base and Z06 front mid-engine for the masses,then make the SS rear mid. I read GM still has plans to build the Cien and a version of the Sixteen. So you fade out the XLR,and build a (shared platformed) Mid engine SS Corvette,and a Cien on the XLR's assembly line.
01-25-2007 05:06 PM
Explorer_97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebrock View Post
This is from a very respectable auto journalist.


Calling him respectable is like calling his story true. Neither are correct.
01-25-2007 10:33 AM
Longtimer
Quote:
Originally Posted by poncherello View Post
I'm thinking a mid engine corvette will no longer be an affordable vehicle for many folks.

Ponch, if we're talking about the $100k Blue Devil. Limited affordability is a given, along with limited availability and future collectability. This model will not neccessarily have anything to with the vette that you and I drive, or will drive in the future - unless you intend to cough up 100 large - I don't.

I think this rumor is mis-founded. The Blue Devil has been rumored to be labeled a "C7", but NOT the next gen Mid-level Corvette (yours and mine today).

It all comes down to what kind of statement GM wants to make with the top dog vette. Pure performance using the Enzo model would result in a nice, but not opulent interior in a street legal C6R with lots of Z06 under a slightly more radical skin (this expectation seems to be popular with the car magazines).

If the XLR is going to be allowed to fade into the sunset (seems like the path chosen by the consumer) and Cad leaves the sports car market, the $100k Vette could follow the 5xx(Maranello) series package formula and take performance and content up to a world level with all new skin, yet more posh than an Enzo modeled offering.

I don't think they have the resources, the time, or the BOD commitment to do either of the above, so it will likely be a compromise car (sort of an Enzo/Viper-type package) that will be, essentially, a Z06 tuner that will look even more like the C6R. Popular appeal (those of us who can't afford it) will be great = Bragging Rights. It will be produced in very limited numbers assuring a customer demand greater than the limited supply.

Also, I look for this one to be built on the XLR assembly line. Either along side the XLR to better utilize the capacity calability of that line, or alone if the XLR is cancelled - very possible. If the XLR IS cancelled, look for more unique models (maybe not all vettes) to follow to try to fill up that section of BG. JMHO
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