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-   -   Did the Manual have to die? (https://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293794)

stinger430 07-23-2019 11:05 AM

Did the Manual have to die?
 
I think the C8 is a very well thought out car, except for the fact that it's not offered on a manual. I understand that manual transmission cars are becoming extinct, but in the sportscar niche I think it should still be offered.

Just came across this very interesting article:

Corvette chief engineer: No manual for C8, it's a dying business

KIRK BELL


Corvette fans still holding out hope for a-manual transmission in the C8 generation of the Chevrolet Corvette, abandon hope. Not only does the Corvette’s chief engineer and vehicle line director say the Corvette won’t get a manual, but building manual transmissions is a dying industry.

When I asked Corvette lead engineer Tadge Juechter at the-reveal of the 2020 Corvette-on Thursday if there is any chance the manual will come back, he replied simply: “No.”

Juechter said a manual-equipped Corvette wouldn't sell well enough to make it worth a supplier’s effort to develop.

“We couldn’t find anybody honestly who’d be willing to do it. Because just like the automatic, the DCT, it would have to be a bespoke manual,” Juechter said. “It’s low volume, very expensive.-

Porsche experimented with dropping the manual from its-track-focused 911 GT3-and found it had upset buyers, who have since bought the manual in that car in large volumes. In fact, according to-Porsche North America CEO Klaus Zellmer, two out of three buyers opt for the manual.

Juechter said the same wouldn’t hold for the Corvette.
-

Juechter said the DCT had to be developed specially for the Corvette.

“We don’t just find a DCT, an 8-speed DCT that plugs into this architecture with the right dimensions,” he noted.

Beyond making a transaxle-style transmission fit in the Corvette, the engineering team faced other challenges. The low placement of the dry sump-fed LT2 6.2-liter V-8 in its midship placement also affected the transmission.

“That puts huge burden on the transmission, too, because it can’t have a deep sump either, so all the oil management, everything is super slammed. The belting, the transmission, figuring out how to cool it, there’s a ton of complexity around that. That’s one of the equations we had to solve,” Juechter said.

Unfortunately for enthusiasts, the Corvette team solved that equation without allowing for another variable: the manual. While the mid-engine design looks promising from a performance standpoint, a big piece of Corvette history just died.

Link to original article: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...dying-business

81LTgen5 07-23-2019 11:43 AM

81LTgen5
 
No manual would be a deal killer for me. I'd rather wait for the C7 prices to drop and get one of those. I can't hardly imagine the manual transmission a dying industry....really?? WOW.

But as a consolation, that 8 speed auto is da bomb!!

Longtimer 07-23-2019 03:10 PM

Back in the late '90s, the idea of a stripped C5 at a bargain price was pursued. The idea was:
1. Graft the convertible hardtop options not selling onto verts to make them rigid.
2. Make the vert (notchback) as stripped down and light as possible by using crank windows, no power seats, no A/C, no power brakes or steering.
3. Sell it as an entry level C5 much cheaper to boost volume.

As you know, #1 was executed. However, when they put the rest of the parts out for bid, they found out that the costs of the economic order quantities for all of the unique, non power parts added MORE to the price of the C5 than just keeping all of the power stuff. By that time they were already committed to using those shelf-sitting tops, so the Notchback, fixed roof C5 was born for one year and the Z06 born the next year.

This is a VERY long winded way of explaining why GM had to make a choice. The cost and the research for a transaxle is very high. There is NO QUESTION that the DCT shifts faster than anyone using any manual transmission and the DCT can function as an automatic better than any auto-only tranny.

Vettes have been my daily driver since 1976 - all manuals. IMO, the time has come to embrace the superior performing technology. This DCT is designed to handle more than 800 HP (if the rumors are correct) so it should be plenty reliable for a 495 HP application. If I don't get a C8, it will NOT be due to the DCT.

Night Stalker 07-23-2019 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81ltgen5 (Post 3438296)
no manual would be a deal killer for me. I'd rather wait for the c7 prices to drop and get one of those. I can't hardly imagine the manual transmission a dying industry....really?? Wow.

But as a consolation, that 8 speed auto is da bomb!!

2019 base/7spds >>> mid 40's now.

KennyGS 07-23-2019 05:19 PM

Interaction with your automobile is dying off. Little by little, less and less will be required by the driver. Probably after I'm dead, the idea that people had to constantly control their cars, while they were moving, will be a completely unbelievable concept.

I'll continue to hold onto my C6.

Night Stalker 07-23-2019 05:35 PM

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...oTitleCard.jpg

Longtimer 07-23-2019 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyGS (Post 3438314)
Interaction with your automobile is dying off. Little by little, less and less will be required by the driver. Probably after I'm dead, the idea that people had to constantly control their cars, while they were moving, will be a completely unbelievable concept.

I'll continue to hold onto my C6.

Actually, one of the things Tadge said during the Reveal was that because there is so much less weight on the front end, less power assist is required and more road feel is transmitted to the driver. FWIW

The Punisher 07-24-2019 01:32 PM

When I heard no manual trans my first thought was that it looks like a sports car but won't have the feel of a sports car .

Longtimer 07-24-2019 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Punisher (Post 3438340)
When I heard no manual trans my first thought was that it looks like a sports car but won't have the feel of a sports car .

:laughing::laughing::laughing: Sorry, no offense intended, but you are saying that Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, Nissan GT-R, Audi R8, have not had the feel of a sports cars for as long as a decade? The DSG or DCT transmission shifts faster than any third pedal car with any professional driver can shift. SPORTS CAR PERFORMANCE is the reason these and other sports cars have moved away from the third pedal. F1 and Indy cars us DSG/DCT transmissions. If you drive a DCT car and don't like it, or if you just don't like the 'idea' of a DCT car, that is your right. But please don't try to say a DCT trans prevents a car from being a sports car.

I've driven manual trans Corvettes daily since 1976 and have two in my garage right now. I've never even driven a Corvette with an automatic much less a DCT. But there is a time to embrace the future and the C8 does the future exceedingly well, IMO.

GM is heading back to the N'ring with C8s right now to see if they can knock the C7 ZR1 off the top of the production time heap - after IT knocked off the TT V6 Ford GT. It's a risky move because the 'ring does have long stretches between the 5000 curves and the C8's 495HP will be spotting the C7 260HP while (rumors true?) weighing in close to the same. These are both fast, capable sports cars.

KennyGS 07-24-2019 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longtimer (Post 3438346)
:laughing::laughing::laughing: Sorry, no offense intended, but you are saying that Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, Nissan GT-R, Audi R8, have not had the feel of a sports cars for as long as a decade? The DSG or DCT transmission shifts faster than any third pedal car with any professional driver can shift. SPORTS CAR PERFORMANCE is the reason these and other sports cars have moved away from the third pedal. F1 and Indy cars us DSG/DCT transmissions. If you drive a DCT car and don't like it, or if you just don't like the 'idea' of a DCT car, that is your right. But please don't try to say a DCT trans prevents a car from being a sports car.

I've driven manual trans Corvettes daily since 1976 and have two in my garage right now. I've never even driven a Corvette with an automatic much less a DCT. But there is a time to embrace the future and the C8 does the future exceedingly well, IMO.

GM is heading back to the N'ring with C8s right now to see if they can knock the C7 ZR1 off the top of the production time heap - after IT knocked off the TT V6 Ford GT. It's a risky move because the 'ring does have long stretches between the 5000 curves and the C8's 495HP will be spotting the C7 260HP while (rumors true?) weighing in close to the same. These are both fast, capable sports cars.

I believe Porsche's are still available with a stick and clutch.

Longtimer 07-24-2019 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyGS (Post 3438350)
I believe Porsche's are still available with a stick and clutch.

Porsche's PDK was one of the earliest DCTs and was originally intended for their top performers like their GT3 model. Yes a manual is still available, but the only PDK is the only trans available for their 640HP, $293k 911 GT2 RS, so it's pretty clear that Porsche considers the PDK THE high performance trans.

mongo 07-25-2019 11:32 AM

Nearly 4 of every 5 C7’s are automatic transmission cars.

grumpyvette 07-25-2019 12:23 PM

a properly designed and properly programmed auto trans,
can shift both faster and more consistently too maximize the power transfer too the pavement through the suspension and tires, the problem up until now has been the lack of physical strength and ability to withstand impact and torque loads, and the auto transmissions extra weight of the auto transmission, but because that has improved slowly and most currently available manual transmissions are no longer made significantly stronger or made to fit into several common applications its no longer an option,
even back in the 1960s, this was recognized as the future, the chaparral race cars had auto transmissions
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...al2Emuseum.jpg

jimmyb 07-25-2019 07:00 PM

This has been coming for a LONG time in Corvettes. Don't forget that the MANUAL was a $915 OPTION on the C5 coupe and convertible. I can't remember if that was true for the FRC. The C5 Z06 was manual only.

HN376RAR 07-26-2019 07:52 AM

As the owner of 3 Corvettes, all with manual transmissions, I understand the displeasure of many. However, I feel I have to chime in here:

Development of a second type of transmission would have only increased costs. From what I read, no supplier was interested in developing such a low volume one either.

I don’t know the numbers, but aren’t most Corvette purchases today with the automatic?

Keep in mind, this transmission will be unique to this car. There will be zero opportunity to share it with any another platform in an effort to recoup, and spread out development costs.

Yes, I wish they would offer a manual. I am completely satisfied that what they are offering is a DCT.


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