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Old 12-02-2014, 11:56 AM   #106
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Yes, I'm familiar with the story behind the Olympians and you are correct it is an assumption on my part. Regardless of whether or not they are elected by a majority of black voters they claim to represent the black community. I guess that's just an assumption on their part as well. By the way, I never said the players didnt have a right to make the gestures they made. I only said they get a lot of exposure.
Seems the "black majority" that Junk talks about are also a very very silent majority, and that was a point that was brought up earlier is that until blacks step up and put this nonsense down, things will not get better. Ignorance is bliss and Justice is blind. All of these people running around race baiting and promoting their agenda are doing nothing to better race relations in this country.
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:57 AM   #107
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Fair enough. I guess for us white folk the perception is that they are at least more legitimate than say Al Sharpton. It is interesting that their solution is body cameras on police officers. I have to question whether this is a good thing. Do you think having a body camera will possible cause an officer to second guess himself in a potentially dangerous situation and the additional time he takes thinking about how it's going to look could possibly result in an officers death?
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:58 AM   #108
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... By the way, I never said the players didnt have a right to make the gestures they made. I only said they get a lot of exposure.
But the fact that they have THE RIGHT to do it is why their actions should be a non-story. Just like when the KKK shows up to spit their hate on the county courthouse steps, it should be a non-story because that is their right. If the media didn't report it, no one would ever show up to see it.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:10 PM   #109
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... Do you think having a body camera will possible cause an officer to second guess himself in a potentially dangerous situation and the additional time he takes thinking about how it's going to look could possibly result in an officers death?
If an officer is second guessing his actions, one of two things are happening. One, he is doing something wrong or illegal. Two, he was NOT properly trained and should not be carrying a gun and working the streets in the first place.

There is a reason that we train in law enforcement and the military the way that we do. When the shit hits the fan, your training takes over and your body and mind react to the situation. You're not standing around thinking about what to do, you are in automatic mode. The situation will slow down for someone who is properly trained and your actions will become second nature. That's a properly trained individual.

I highly recommend cameras on police officers but there's one thing that I recommend ABOVE that. That would be Community Oriented Policing.
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"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:39 PM   #110
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Absolutely correct. I remember a few years ago, the fire service started training new recruits in "emergency escape procedures" for quickly exiting a room before flashover, using harnesses built into their gear. While useful in certain situations, in my 40 years on the line I had occasion to bail out of a burning building four times. Every single one of those times I was outside on the ground before I gave any thought to "What should I do?". Your training and instincts have to take over or you will not survive. Same with the police. I think that body cameras will shut up a lot more so-called "victims" and their families than they will convict LEOs. When the families see what their "little angels" actually did, they will be faced with the one weapon they can't fight . . . the truth.
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"You are entitled to your own opinion - you are NOT entitled to your own facts".
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:47 PM   #111
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Thanks, I'm not in law enforcement and wondered about this. By the way because of this conversation I learned a new word today "gerrymandering". I guess I am naive after all and to some extent ignorant.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:51 PM   #112
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Thanks, I'm not in law enforcement and wondered about this. By the way because of this conversation I learned a new word today "gerrymandering". I guess I am naive after all and to some extent ignorant.
I don't see any ignorance in your posts.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:55 PM   #113
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By the way because of this conversation I learned a new word today "gerrymandering"
They've quit teaching Civics in school and I'll bet most don't know that word. To your credit, most would never have looked it up.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:05 PM   #114
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Well, I didn't actually look the word up. Since I'm in Florida I'm familiar with Corrine Brown. Junkman got me wondering how she ever got elected and the word popped up so I researched it. So I guess I kind of looked it up by proxy.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:12 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Junkman2008 View Post
If an officer is second guessing his actions, one of two things are happening. One, he is doing something wrong or illegal. Two, he was NOT properly trained and should not be carrying a gun and working the streets in the first place.

There is a reason that we train in law enforcement and the military the way that we do. When the shit hits the fan, your training takes over and your body and mind react to the situation. You're not standing around thinking about what to do, you are in automatic mode. The situation will slow down for someone who is properly trained and your actions will become second nature. That's a properly trained individual.

I highly recommend cameras on police officers but there's one thing that I recommend ABOVE that. That would be Community Oriented Policing.
A friend of mine (a former DC Cop and Retired from DOJ) sent me this:


WHAT FERGUSON MEANS FOR AMERICA'S COPS

Every police officer in America knows one thing – it could have been him. Or her.

It could have been him or her, instead of Darren Wilson, who pulled that trigger on Michael Brown.

Or some such similar young man.

Every cop in America knows that, in return for choosing a career in law enforcement, the rules of the road are now that, at any minute, it all could be over and you could become hated and condemned all across the country.

No one would have your back, even the president could denounce you.

Because you defended yourself.

In a twist on biting the hand that feeds you, we are instead tying the hand that defends us. We are sending them out, and waiting for the first chance to gut them.

It is an incomprehensible act of ingratitude.

All across American law enforcement, officers know that the new reality facing them when they pull their gun is: By defending myself, I could be condemning myself.

Take Darren Wilson.

A good cop on routine patrol. He’s coming back from a call and has brief contact with two individuals. Nothing comes of it until he moves a ways down the block and gets a radio description of a wanted individual matching one of the young men he’s just seen.

Rolling back up on the two individuals, the larger of them – Michael Brown – lunges into the driver’s window of the squad car and begins assaulting Darren Wilson. Michael Brown then tries to take away the officer’s gun.

The officer gets off a round, Michael Brown attempts to flee, and then charges at the officer, twice, before being shot to death.

In the mind of witnesses and Darren Wilson, Michael Brown was set to attack and was an immediate threat to the life of Officer Wilson.

So Officer Wilson did what his training taught him to do. He did what instinct, morality and the laws of men command him to do – he defended himself.

And his life is ruined.

His career is over, his family is threatened, his name is destroyed, he has been vilified across the country and by the nation’s most prominent voices.

People have rioted demanding imprisonment for him, and there have been countless threats on his life.

His life, as he knew it, is over.

Because he was a cop and he defended himself.

An entire society has forgotten that Darren Wilson is not the perpetrator of a crime, he is the victim of a crime.

Likewise, it has been forgotten that Darren Wilson was an officer of the law with a duty to act, and that he was on patrol that day in the name and service of the people.

And it is dispiriting to see how instantly the people have turned on him and his profession.

You get up in the morning and put on a uniform that carries with it the obligation to potentially die in the service of your community, to put yourself between the good people and whatever species of hell pops up, and then, when you are literally fighting for your life and the community’s protection, nobody has your back.

Everybody curses your name.

Millions hate you.

Much of the nation turns against you.

In the matter of some 20 seconds.

Damned if you do, dead if you don't.

Every cop in America wakes up every day knowing that that could be his fate. By the happenstance of random probability, the unpredictability of criminality, some wild hare seizing upon who knows what thug, and that could be you.

And it wouldn’t matter who you were, or what good you had done, or how many years you had served, or what you had made of your life and to what good cause you had dedicated it.

Al Sharpton would be yelling your name, mobs would be burning your effigy, and the president would be undercutting your profession.

And who wants that?

What kind of person, having seen on the nation’s newscasts the destruction of Darren Wilson, wants to risk that?

How many law enforcement officers will think of the danger associated with their thankless job, see the risk facing themselves and their family, recognize that it is completely unfair and wrong, and quit?

How many will lay down their badge and their career and walk away?

Probably none.

Because that’s the kind of people most of them are. They press on. They do their duty. They don’t quit.

That’s who they are.

More at issue is: Who are we?

Are we the kind of society that looks on and does nothing, or are we the kind of society that values law enforcement and what it does, and has its back?

Are we the kind of society that can look at the matter in Ferguson and push back the anti-cop prejudices and honestly consider the situation of Darren Wilson? Can we recognize the injustice of his situation?

Not that he wasn’t prosecuted, but that he was ever suspected. That an officer of the law, the victim of a violent and felonious attack, can be forced into a fight for his life, and then be condemned for winning.

Would society have preferred he die?

We all know that if the cop had died, instead of the guy who attacked him, that none of us would have ever heard of this.

The president wouldn’t have commented, the nation wouldn’t have noticed, nobody would have given a damn.

Dead cop, no problem.

Dead thug, raise holy hell.

And every cop knows that.

And carries that sad realization 24 hours a day.

The president said we need to train our police better. Maybe we need to train our society better.

Maybe we should train the Michael Browns of the world to respect the law, and maybe we should train the rest of us to respect the law enforcers.

And have their backs.

Or at least understand the horrible risk and reality Ferguson creates for them.

Because every cop knows today could be his day.
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I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:56 PM   #116
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When the families see what their "little angels" actually did, they will be faced with the one weapon they can't fight . . . the truth.
The problem is that the version of the truth that the troublemakers want spread usually gets around the neighborhood in a matter of a few minutes. Once that "truth" is heard and believed by the people of the community, no amount of hard facts will alter their belief. From that point on, they will assume that the powers that be have altered evidence or colluded to hide the truth. In other words, they have refused to let justice reign. I believe Ferguson fits that scenario. A couple of local hotheads spread the word that Brown was running away and was shot in the back. The physical evidence clearly shows that was not the case. But the agitators and their followers are not about to let facts get in the way of what they already "know". Cameras won't change that. Angry communities will always believe what they want to believe.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:01 PM   #117
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While there's definitely truth to that, I still maintain that having a filmed record of what actually happened is better than not having it. The knuckleheads who want to loot and rob are always going to do that until their own neighbors cry "enough".
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"You are entitled to your own opinion - you are NOT entitled to your own facts".
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:02 PM   #118
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Fair enough. I guess for us white folk the perception is that they are at least more legitimate than say Al Sharpton.
Sharpton must be legitimate enough for Obama because he was at the discussion yesterday at the White House.
One can only assume that this was the official "Race-Baiter"
meeting of the minds.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:32 PM   #119
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I don't see any ignorance in your posts.
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"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:13 PM   #120
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Sharpton must be legitimate enough for Obama because he was at the discussion yesterday at the White House.
One can only assume that this was the official "Race-Baiter"
meeting of the minds.
Sharpton has spent more time in the White House advising Obama over the past year than Biden has. Tells you a lot about who Obama is.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/02/sharpto...et-with-obama/
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