Dont bring your car to Race Proven Motorsports in Delaware if you love your car. - Page 10 - Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums
 
 
Go Back   Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums > C5 Corvette Forums > C5 Corvette - General Discussion
Register Forums Garage Garage Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowInsurance Advertise

Notices

C5 Corvette - General Discussion General | Technical | Performance | Aftermarket | Discussions

Other sections:
Corvettes Classifieds
Corvette Detailing & Car Care
Corvette Audio/Video/Radar
General Automotive/Shop/Tools
Corvette Performance Driving/Racing

Shops/Tuners
Custom Image Corvettes
A&A Corvette
Corvette tuner

Interior
Corvette aftermarket products

Insurance



Parts & Products
Race Ramps
Edelbrock
ATI/Procharger
Corvetteguys.com
Melrose Motorsports
Parts Taxi
Airaid
Pfadt Racing
Madvette Motorsports
Hi-tech Custom Concepts
Corvette Garage
Corvette Parts and Accessories
Corvette Car Care Products
Corvette HID

Tracks/Schools
Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving
Corvette driving school

Wheels/Tires
Cray Wheels

Services
BADWERKS.com
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-17-2014, 10:40 AM   #136
ddregehr
DC Crew
 
ddregehr's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,367
Member #30032
Member since: Feb 2005
Location: SD

My Corvette(s)
50th Anniversary Corvette Convertible (sold); 2002 Corvette Convertible

Thanks: 15
Thanked 81 Times in 67 Posts
They say pictures are worth a thousand words well . . . You have some points. I have swung closer to your perspective; however, I have some questions.

Was that blower on when the car went to them or do you take it off before hand? If you needed the money to buy another car, and you did some dis-assembly yourself, that before picture would not be totally accurate.

There is definitely some half ass work there and corners cut. I've NEVER seen a "pro" wire something directly into the fuse box before. Was that simply "temporary" until they had it up and running or what? It just doesn't make sense to me.

A shop can't stay in business and have the rep they established if they did work that bad. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this. Maybe they just worked on your car on Monday mornings and Friday afternoons.

________________________________________ ___________

The blower and re-location of the map sensor is something I clearly understand and can be seen in your pictures as well. Maybe the Bubba here is the blower installer and you are just finding out about it now. It was also a questions I asked above.

When it come right down to it, RPM couldn't stay in business if they did this bad of a job repeatedly or have customers like Rick Henderson. My question is were they trying to deal with repeated screw ups from a previous install/s that hampered the engine install. Why else would you be willing to negotiate 50% of parts price only and not even consider labor which is even more expensive?

Last edited by ddregehr; 01-17-2014 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Above Post
ddregehr is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-17-2014, 11:21 AM   #137
Fluffy
 
Fluffy's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,611
Member #68058
Member since: Dec 2007
Location: Paris/France

My Corvette(s)
JSB 2008 Coupe

Thanks: 71
Thanked 133 Times in 104 Posts
At this point in time, Fran's explanation appears to be the most plausible.

Fluffy is offline   Quick reply to this message
Rayman XIII
Old 01-17-2014, 12:12 PM   #138
Altered
DC Crew
 
Altered's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,457
Member #67645
Member since: Dec 2007
Location: Texas

My Corvette(s)
1976 Stingray L48 4spd

Thanks: 76
Thanked 79 Times in 68 Posts
Just my view not taking sides.

I have had similar situations before where the said customer wanted something specifically done and didn't want anything else. These type people are very insistent as if they know cars have experience etc. After a few minutes discussion I could see how I would have to approach the job based on my assessment of the person.

In this case it appears he just wanted the motor swapped and that is it. I can understand from the shops side hey if the guy only wants X done and says so well hes the one paying the bill that is exactly what I will do. Nothing more.

Now that does not mean I didn't try to explain the old carburetor from 1970 was a large portion of the poor running condition it was currently in. I remember using the line a $50,000.00 motor will run only as good as the fuel system will let it.

I always explained until I got busted several times having to work for free or pay for a rebuilt one to get the job done to satisfy me. After two times of that I just figured in the cost of the kit and I rebuilt it or in some bad cases bought a remanufactured one with a warranty to cover my ass and make damn sure the customer was extremely pleased.

Some people are not gearhead inclined believe it or not even if they think they are. I always explained the price included rebuilt carburetor or replaced when doing such. Saying it was included helped tremendously instead of trying to add charges on the other end of the transaction. If they asked about doing it for less without doing the carburetor I politely said it wasn't happening and explained why. I never had one walk away and I never had one not happy when they came to pick up their ride with it running great.

But I was only doing jobs out of my garage I was not a business and I wanted no hard feelings also I wanted more work. So my small loss was no big deal in the big picture.

What was really the best part is I learned how to remedy the situation on future jobs. Working on the public's cars takes knowing and being able to assess people. Of course you will never get 100% satisfaction. There is always that one out of a 100 who wants it for free.

My biggest issue here is if a car came in running (even if I had to prod it to) even like crap and a guy buys a motor from me and pays me my price to replace it you can bet your ass the motor will be replaced and it will run after the replacement. Some wiring needing replaced a decent tech should be able to repair whats there no its not a "new" harness and I would have lost some on the deal but my reputation is worth more that I have seen in these pics.

I'm not saying it should run great but to me that is messed up the car ran going in to the shop but not at all leaving. I couldn't have sent it out I just couldn't big shop, little shop, no shop, shade tree, what ever I just would have been too embarrassed.

Just a few questions I have
1.Why didn't the tech fix the wires when he pulled the motor and saw the mess?
2.Was the tech the same tech you put on Rick Hendrick and Vance Worley rides? Or was he a new guy put on this average guys car. Generally speaking the richest guys get the preferential treatment ie the best tech you got. Was this given to a scrub?
3.Fran you said in post 136 "We heat shrink, solder, and wire loom EVERYTHING we wire." Is it normal ignore all the other fire hazards you see? I don't understand how your tech would leave these wires and even hook the battery up.

I'm not picking sides I'm just trying to understand how this happened.
Altered is offline   Quick reply to this message
I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
 
Old 01-17-2014, 12:48 PM   #139
ddregehr
DC Crew
 
ddregehr's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,367
Member #30032
Member since: Feb 2005
Location: SD

My Corvette(s)
50th Anniversary Corvette Convertible (sold); 2002 Corvette Convertible

Thanks: 15
Thanked 81 Times in 67 Posts
I agree with you Altered. But how much is too much to eat on a job? If he called to explain what he found and it was taking a bit longer than expected which electrical issues always do, how was he to fix it if the owner pulled it from his shop? Now are we talking weeks, months or what?

If the shop was already into a ECM reflash, BCM and other components at his cost and now we are looking at say $5000 more in parts and labor. That is a lot to eat!

I was never totally picking sides either, but there are always two sides to a story. I was just trying to point out the minority side in this thread. I didn't like what I saw in the pictures, but I wouldn't eat thousands of dollars to make my customer happy either. It appears we found out where both individuals drew their lines. One doesn't have a car that works and will land up taking it to the lowest bidder and the other one will get a black eye out of the deal. Both will never be happy.
ddregehr is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2014, 01:06 PM   #140
Altered
DC Crew
 
Altered's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,457
Member #67645
Member since: Dec 2007
Location: Texas

My Corvette(s)
1976 Stingray L48 4spd

Thanks: 76
Thanked 79 Times in 68 Posts
I'm just not sure how you get to ECM reflash, BCM and other components with those wires staring at the tech? Are those completely hidden?

If those were ever touched to remove or install the engine someone gots some explaining to do.

When would you apply the battery power to try and read codes or crank on it with that mess? I say never without fixing the wires. But the shop did at some point.

Some fishy smell is still coming out from under this hood. I'm not sure who is to blame I'm just trying to see how it got to this point.
Altered is offline   Quick reply to this message
I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
Old 01-17-2014, 01:38 PM   #141
ddregehr
DC Crew
 
ddregehr's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,367
Member #30032
Member since: Feb 2005
Location: SD

My Corvette(s)
50th Anniversary Corvette Convertible (sold); 2002 Corvette Convertible

Thanks: 15
Thanked 81 Times in 67 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans96ss View Post
. . .We spoke to the shop that changed the oil and stated what we found when we drained the old oil. There was noticeable signs of bearing material in the oil and it was our opinion that lack of oil and/or oil pressure was the likely cause. We removed the complete engine out of the vehicle and the only thing that was swapped over was the oil pan. After re-installing the engine, we flashed the ECU back to stock. At this time, the remote would not recognize the ignition. After purchasing two remotes and trying to sync both, the vehicle would still not start. We paid to have the vehicle towed to and from to the GM dealership and paid to have the 3 remotes synced the vehicle. They determined there was an issue with the BCM control module and had to erase everything in order to re-sync the remotes to the PIM control module. We paid for the all of the dealership repairs. . .
By reading this I understood that the security system would not allow the car to even turn over after the engine swap. They had to take the car to a dealership to put this back to factory spec because his ECU would not accept the new (used) engine without supercharger. When they did this the dealership also discovered that the BCM module was also affected needing to be erased for the engine to be turned over. Some of the wiring was exposed, but not the melted wires. It appears the dealership did the initial troubleshooting because the car was so heavily modified that the PIM control wouldn't allow the ignition to even work.

Was some of the jerry-rigging exposed at this point? Obviously yes. The supercharger was off, so they could see some of the bad connections. Fuse box and wiring harness maybe not. I don't know. They couldn't even get codes or accurate codes at this point if the ECU and BCM were modded and needed to go back to original spec could they? If PIM was locked and security was enabled, what access would there be?
ddregehr is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2014, 02:42 PM   #142
frans96ss
DC Crew
 
Posts: 248
Member #72577
Member since: May 2008
Location: Claymont Del.

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altered View Post

Just a few questions I have
1.Why didn't the tech fix the wires when he pulled the motor and saw the mess?
2.Was the tech the same tech you put on Rick Hendrick and Vance Worley rides? Or was he a new guy put on this average guys car. Generally speaking the richest guys get the preferential treatment ie the best tech you got. Was this given to a scrub?
3.Fran you said in post 136 "We heat shrink, solder, and wire loom EVERYTHING we wire." Is it normal ignore all the other fire hazards you see? I don't understand how your tech would leave these wires and even hook the battery up.

I'm not picking sides I'm just trying to understand how this happened.


If we fixed EVERYTHING we saw wrong with cars that we didnt build for free we wouldnt be in business. Do we mention stuff tot he customer? Of course but most people dont want to fix what isnt "broken".

I have 3 techs who have worked for me for a long time. They have all worked on high end cars. We have a 36k sq ft shop for a reason. I dont have "lower" end mechanics. They are all experienced with what we do.

We didnt see the melted harness when we pulled the engine as i stated earlier. The melted harness was under the dash where the gauges were wired.

As for the car "not running" When it left is incorrect. It ran the same way it did when we got the car...terrible.
frans96ss is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2014, 03:07 PM   #143
Junkman2008
DC Crew
 
Junkman2008's Avatar
 
Posts: 30,448
Member #71977
Member since: Apr 2008
Location: Louisville, KY

My Corvette(s)
2001 Navy Blue Metallic Coupe

Thanks: 281
Thanked 883 Times in 703 Posts
Okay, after 10 pages of back and forth, no resolution is close (which would be to the benefit of the parties concerned). So I have a couple of questions for the OP.

Are you looking for a resolution to this or are you just wanting to expose your experience? If you are looking for a resolution, do you want the shop in question to do the work? If not, this thread has served its purpose and ran its course.

My next question to both the shop and the OP, what do either of you feel would be a fair resolution? Last of all, does the shop in question even want to deal with this situation anymore? Let's get those questions answered.
Junkman2008 is offline   Quick reply to this message
"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."
Old 01-17-2014, 04:17 PM   #144
87vette81big
Account Disabled.
 
Posts: 2,749
Member #117927
Member since: Nov 2011
Location: IL

My Corvette(s)
1987 Corvette Convertible

Thanks: 236
Thanked 97 Times in 89 Posts
Junk Do Not Take Your Beautifull Blue Tiger Shark C5 Ever to Blown out Connecting Rod Motorsports in Delaware.
Ok Bud.
If I fuckup & know you will put a 9 Cap into my ass.
I don't plan on Rigging your C5 rebuilding the 4L60E trans.
Besides an extra pair of your hands helping makes the job easier.

Poor Old Nothing Thought It was a Cadillac.
How they treated his 2006 GTO.

If they did that shit work to my 1970-1/2 TA, BE No Thread.
Italian Fire.
Dead Bodies fed to Hog Pigs. They eat all evidence. Even Teeth.
87vette81big is offline   Quick reply to this message
Rebellion to Tyrants (Muslims) is Loyalty to God.
Old 01-17-2014, 04:41 PM   #145
Junkman2008
DC Crew
 
Junkman2008's Avatar
 
Posts: 30,448
Member #71977
Member since: Apr 2008
Location: Louisville, KY

My Corvette(s)
2001 Navy Blue Metallic Coupe

Thanks: 281
Thanked 883 Times in 703 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87vette81big View Post
Junk Do Not Take Your Beautifull Blue Tiger Shark C5 Ever to Blown out Connecting Rod Motorsports in Delaware.
Ok Bud.
If I fuckup & know you will put a 9 Cap into my ass.
I don't plan on Rigging your C5 rebuilding the 4L60E trans.
Besides an extra pair of your hands helping makes the job easier.

Poor Old Nothing Thought It was a Cadillac.
How they treated his 2006 GTO.

If they did that shit work to my 1970-1/2 TA, BE No Thread.
Italian Fire.
Dead Bodies fed to Hog Pigs. They eat all evidence. Even Teeth.
Let them resolve this Brian. I only want constructive conversations going on here.
Junkman2008 is offline   Quick reply to this message
"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."
Old 01-17-2014, 04:45 PM   #146
87vette81big
Account Disabled.
 
Posts: 2,749
Member #117927
Member since: Nov 2011
Location: IL

My Corvette(s)
1987 Corvette Convertible

Thanks: 236
Thanked 97 Times in 89 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkman2008 View Post
Let them resolve this Brian. I only want constructive conversations going on here.
Ok Junk.
87vette81big is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2014, 05:23 PM   #147
Altered
DC Crew
 
Altered's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,457
Member #67645
Member since: Dec 2007
Location: Texas

My Corvette(s)
1976 Stingray L48 4spd

Thanks: 76
Thanked 79 Times in 68 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans96ss View Post
If we fixed EVERYTHING we saw wrong with cars that we didnt build for free we wouldnt be in business. Do we mention stuff tot he customer? Of course but most people dont want to fix what isnt "broken".

I have 3 techs who have worked for me for a long time. They have all worked on high end cars. We have a 36k sq ft shop for a reason. I dont have "lower" end mechanics. They are all experienced with what we do.

We didnt see the melted harness when we pulled the engine as i stated earlier. The melted harness was under the dash where the gauges were wired.

As for the car "not running" When it left is incorrect. It ran the same way it did when we got the car...terrible.
I understand you cannot fix everything. And it does sound like you did communicate a lot even the OP states he has many emails.

I was just asking because these wires appear to be under the hood not under the dash. Isn't that the engine? Just from the pics those appear to be under the hood. I know doing engine swaps you dont see everything but you do see a whole lot when your under the hood that much.

I appreciate a shop willing to come on here and explain his side. I hope cooler heads prevail and you guys can get it worked out. No one wins when lawyers get involved except the lawyers. I don't know who is to blame but it made for some interesting reading.

Junk Ill stop asking ?s here good luck to both parties.
Altered is offline   Quick reply to this message
I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
Old 01-17-2014, 05:55 PM   #148
assassinx1
DC Crew
 
assassinx1's Avatar
 
Posts: 964
Member #29282
Member since: Jan 2005
Location: little falls nj usa

My Corvette(s)
1998 c5

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddregehr View Post
They say pictures are worth a thousand words well . . . You have some points. I have swung closer to your perspective; however, I have some questions.

Was that blower on when the car went to them or do you take it off before hand? If you needed the money to buy another car, and you did some dis-assembly yourself, that before picture would not be totally accurate.

There is definitely some half ass work there and corners cut. I've NEVER seen a "pro" wire something directly into the fuse box before. Was that simply "temporary" until they had it up and running or what? It just doesn't make sense to me.

A shop can't stay in business and have the rep they established if they did work that bad. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this. Maybe they just worked on your car on Monday mornings and Friday afternoons.

________________________________________ ___________

The blower and re-location of the map sensor is something I clearly understand and can be seen in your pictures as well. Maybe the Bubba here is the blower installer and you are just finding out about it now. It was also a questions I asked above.

When it come right down to it, RPM couldn't stay in business if they did this bad of a job repeatedly or have customers like Rick Henderson. My question is were they trying to deal with repeated screw ups from a previous install/s that hampered the engine install. Why else would you be willing to negotiate 50% of parts price only and not even consider labor which is even more expensive?
When they told the car was ready and I drove down the their shop I picked up my engine and supercharger. I sold the supercharger in the mean time of waiting to get my car back. Those wires were not like that. They modified the harness to fit the map sensor to the front of the engine. On that model magnacharger it was in the back where the map sensor orginaly was. All of those wires spread across the engine with the black look and blue tracers were added by race proven motorsports.
assassinx1 is offline   Quick reply to this message
...
Old 01-17-2014, 05:57 PM   #149
87vette81big
Account Disabled.
 
Posts: 2,749
Member #117927
Member since: Nov 2011
Location: IL

My Corvette(s)
1987 Corvette Convertible

Thanks: 236
Thanked 97 Times in 89 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altered View Post
I understand you cannot fix everything. And it does sound like you did communicate a lot even the OP states he has many emails.

I was just asking because these wires appear to be under the hood not under the dash. Isn't that the engine? Just from the pics those appear to be under the hood. I know doing engine swaps you dont see everything but you do see a whole lot when your under the hood that much.

I appreciate a shop willing to come on here and explain his side. I hope cooler heads prevail and you guys can get it worked out. No one wins when lawyers get involved except the lawyers. I don't know who is to blame but it made for some interesting reading.

Junk Ill stop asking ?s here good luck to both parties.
I saw right away the Same Altered.
Busted. White Lie. In print by Blown out Connecting Rod Motorsports in Delaware.
Should ask Grumpy what he thinks.
87vette81big is offline   Quick reply to this message
Rebellion to Tyrants (Muslims) is Loyalty to God.
Old 01-17-2014, 06:01 PM   #150
assassinx1
DC Crew
 
assassinx1's Avatar
 
Posts: 964
Member #29282
Member since: Jan 2005
Location: little falls nj usa

My Corvette(s)
1998 c5

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkman2008 View Post
Okay, after 10 pages of back and forth, no resolution is close (which would be to the benefit of the parties concerned). So I have a couple of questions for the OP.

Are you looking for a resolution to this or are you just wanting to expose your experience? If you are looking for a resolution, do you want the shop in question to do the work? If not, this thread has served its purpose and ran its course.

My next question to both the shop and the OP, what do either of you feel would be a fair resolution? Last of all, does the shop in question even want to deal with this situation anymore? Let's get those questions answered.
A resolution would be amazing. I call and call and call. No call back. I email and email and email. No response. I wish they would respond. The pictures alone prove what has happened to the car. I even offers to just split the difference on a new harnsess.
assassinx1 is offline   Quick reply to this message
...
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (12 CHARACTERS MAXIMUM), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
City / State / Country?
Where you live
What kind of Corvette(s) do you own?
This field is not required.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:01 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003-2011, DigitalCorvettes.com - All Rights Reserved