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Old 06-17-2010, 08:48 AM   #61
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The officer was assaulted and reacted. Would people feel better if he had not tried to minimize the force being used on the first girl and instead thrown her to the ground to handcuff her. Assault a cop and you should expect a punch..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dAUrj6Helg
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:53 AM   #62
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That video is classic. I crack up every time I see it.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:01 AM   #63
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Here's a much better video of the incident. Scroll down the page to the actual video.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:25 AM   #64
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Here's a much better video of the incident. Scroll down the page to the actual video.
When you look at the entire video you can see there are a number of spectators of color staying out it. I think Jesse and Al will be trying to make this a race issue when it looks to me like a simple case of "You don't assault a cop and expect no repercussions."

Could he have used less force? Probably, but then again, this could have turned really ugly for the officer quickly.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:50 AM   #65
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I'm sorry but, you'd have to be absolutely insane/crazy/nuts to prefer to be hit by a baton or be tasered than get punched in the face.
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Help us understand your reasoning here. Why would the baton be ok, but the fist not? I think this would be much worse if he hit her with the baton.
I never said I'd want any of the three. However, we're talking about a trained police officer, and I doubt academy training includes boxing as a legitimate way to subdue an unruly female. I also believe there is a conditional response, something like "meeting force with like force."

He caused the whole situation by his inability to subdue the first woman. If she was in handcuffs, the second would have never tried to intervene to "free" the first.

If I had to guess, from now on this guy will be the textbook example of what not to do.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:03 AM   #66
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He caused the whole situation by his inability to subdue the first woman. If she was in handcuffs, the second would have never tried to intervene to "free" the first.
I agree. He should have thrown the first female to the ground, put a knee in her back and handcuffed her immediately - with force when she resisted.

We'd still ne taking about it but now we'd be talking about the first female.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:54 AM   #67
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I never said I'd want any of the three. However, we're talking about a trained police officer, and I doubt academy training includes boxing as a legitimate way to subdue an unruly female. I also believe there is a conditional response, something like "meeting force with like force."
I understand exactly where you're coming from but what force is less lethal than a punch? Taser? Mace? Firearm?

You are taught take down procedures in the academy but if you don't use them everyday, they are a little difficult to remember in a pinch. Also, those take down procedures usually mean taking someone down pretty hard. I think the officer was trying to use the least lethal methods that he could because of the size and sex of the suspect.

I know for a fact that I have went toe to toe on quite a few occasions, throwing hay makers like I was having a blue light special sale. This was the 80's and crack had just hit the scene. I could have whipped out my gun and blown the suspects away, but for some reason I felt that killing them was not warranted (imagine that). Every situation was different and required quick thinking on my part. With that said, I was always cognizant of one very important thing.

Every physical confrontation that I was involved in ALWAYS contained at least one loaded gun.

Mine.
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:56 PM   #68
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It's not about lethality, it's about professionalism. If it had been a guy and the cop had kicked him in the nuts, it would have been effective, but is it really the sort of thing you want your trained police officers resorting to?
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:26 PM   #69
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Cops don't have to meet force with equal force. If that were the case and a bad guy pulled out a baseball bat we would have to go get a baseball bat of our own. Cops are generally allowed to go one level above the other guy. That's why if they have a bat, or pipe, or knife we can use a firearm. If they verbally refuse lawful commands we can lay hands on them. If they become physical we can be "more" physical. Pain compliance is a tool. Pepper, strikes to nerves or muscle groups, or taser. Injury is not the goal. That's why a strike to the nuts or the throat is usually frowned on and would be inappropriate in THIS case. If things got worse(the crowd joined in to help the girls) then the baton or firearm might be appropriate and if injuries resulted there would be more justification.
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:24 PM   #70
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So this is not the first time the girl has assaulted an officer...

I wonder if he would have bothered to write a jay walking ticket or just given them a verbal warning until THEY chose to escalate. WTF is the cop supposed to do - push her back? Smack that stupid right out of her...
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Old 06-17-2010, 05:00 PM   #71
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Exactly! I've been staying out of this because well, I really don't care, but after viewing the video and checking out these girls' history, I can speculate as to how this went down.

The cop was just going to tell them that jaywalking is dangerous and illegal, that would've been that.

But, these girls started giving him shit because he was being racist at which point he told them to surrender I.D. Of course they didn't, they saw a crowd gathering so they wanted to play victim and scream racism. I couldn't hear the words but I've seen that attitude so many times... The situation escalated to the point where now someone is gonna have to go downtown because well, let's face it, he has a right to detain you for 72 hours without charging you...

At that point one girl laid her hands on the officer, this is classified as assault so he assaulted her back to get her to comply. I'd say it worked and she's probably been hit before because she went straight into hurt puppy-dog mode.

Seriously though, I bet my account of the incident isn't far off from his report...
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:00 PM   #72
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obviously someone here is very anti-LEO....what do you think, we issue cards to all "special groups" that allows them to break the law that way we cannot be considered racist when we enforce said laws....

The LEO's I know would have either pepper sprayed or tazed that piece of trash- far more hurtful than geting punched.

We need to stop all this "victim" bs that is going on. you screwed up, you take what is coming to you. if you dont like it, dont be a criminal.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:22 PM   #73
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obviously someone here is very anti-LEO....what do you think, we issue cards to all "special groups" that allows them to break the law that way we cannot be considered racist when we enforce said laws....

The LEO's I know would have either pepper sprayed or tazed that piece of trash- far more hurtful than geting punched.

We need to stop all this "victim" bs that is going on. you screwed up, you take what is coming to you. if you dont like it, dont be a criminal.
I'll take a card that let's me drive as fast as I want to...
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:54 PM   #74
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I swear there seems to be a snub-nose revolver in the right hand of one of the young men in the video. Bottom left of the frame at about the 1:16 mark. What do you think? Someone else who posted comments about the video saw it too. This could have been a very nasty outcome for the officer.
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:54 PM   #75
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If they become physical we can be "more" physical. Pain compliance is a tool. Pepper, strikes to nerves or muscle groups, or taser. Injury is not the goal.
So let me ask you this-is it your opinion as a LEO that the officer's response in this incident was appropriate, considering that a punch like that could have easily broken her jaw, nose, knocked her unconscious, etc. ?
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