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Old 03-11-2011, 04:18 PM   #91
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When the earth formed from the rocks and dust of space, due to the gravity of the newely formed sun, the earth was bombarded for the first few million years by all sorts of space rocks (asteriods). On some of these asteroids there were chemicals called amino acids. On others there was water, in the form of ice. When enough of these ice asteroids hit the earth the oceans formed. With the chemical soup of amino acids floating around in all that water it was just a matter of a few million years before those chemicals met and reacted to form DNA and the first single celled forms of life. These forms of life then evolved through millions of years of mutations into what we and every other living thing is today. Realy not that hard to understand.

He just did.
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:19 PM   #92
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69, the proof is geological formation, dinosaurs, and the measurement of how fast light can travel. The measurement of light years proves millions of years. Science is not a belief system... and you saying that its not correct is even worse... thanks to science your still alive, not because of a god. You cannot collect millions of years of pieces, like I said, its small changes that happens over a vast amount of time. Science changes all the time, but its still what is real, can be measured, seen, and studied in some fashion.

Darth, it's the same principle as how algae can form, where did it come from? well, you must have the correct elements for it to sustain itself, and that's exactly it, just how you described it, that's the crazy thing about, that is what happens, we can watch it happen with mutations, virsus, etc etc and if that doesn't sound more probable than a creator then I do not know what more to say. The idea of a creator is ridiculous when you truly think about it. The leap of faith you have I really do not understand, with all of the proof around, the simple fact the universe exists, and if you know human history, how unintelligent we were in a way (and still are), then its clueless as to whats going on. We are just like every other animal on this planet, we eat, poop, pee, reproduce, we only have the smarter more evolved brain to be able to do what were doing right now. MAN made thoughts, because we question, we wonder, and we bs.
I actually find algea to be a bad example as I am salt water aquarist. Simply having the elements does not mean algea will occur. If fact in my tank I am currently battling Bryopsis hair algea. While it thrives due to elements in the tank it didn't just spawn out of them it was carried in on live rock and coral frags. Now if you would like to counter with experiments where deionized water had the correct elements(and/or molecular compounds) added from inert molar concentrations in a sealed an controlled enviroment and they produced algea by adding nothing but light I would happily review it.

As of now I don't believe that life just happens it is created.

Even though I do believe in God(as defined by the Southern Baptist tradition) I don't even pretend to think all the universe was created just for us.
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:20 PM   #93
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Prove it though. March a single person in here that was alive back then - a single eye witness that can support this theory..

Bring me the thousands of half human half fish, half birds that should be left trapped in the rubble of time - of the millions of years of time - that you reference.

Tell me what the make up was of that first amino acid - where did it come from?

Where is the absolute proof of this theory - the true missing link? Otherwise my friend, your belief system is based on a faith in things you can't explain - designed to support your believe that there is no god.
You know 1000 years ago you would have been swearing that the earth was the center of the universe and the sun circled around the earth. That was what religion told us and many scientists were put to death for not believing that. Now we know the truth, and they were right.

Perhaps in another 1000 years we will find all the missing links that lead us right back to the primordial soup. But for now I will side with the scientists...they have a much better track record than religion and superstition.

By the way...have you ever wondered why a fetus has a tail for a portion of his developement???...maybe a remnant of former ancestors?
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:26 PM   #94
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I actually find algea to be a bad example as I am salt water aquarist. Simply having the elements does not mean algea will occur. If fact in my tank I am currently battling Bryopsis hair algea. While it thrives due to elements in the tank it didn't just spawn out of them it was carried in on live rock and coral frags. Now if you would like to counter with experiments where deionized water had the correct elements(and/or molecular compounds) added from inert molar concentrations in a sealed an controlled enviroment and they produced algea by adding nothing but light I would happily review it.

As of now I don't believe that life just happens it is created.

Even though I do believe in God(as defined by the Southern Baptist tradition) I don't even pretend to think all the universe was created just for us.
Take trillions of gallons of water, and the heat of the core of the earth and of the sun, and all the chemicals that were in that primordial soup and you will get life...you just have to wait a few million years. If you start today you could be famous in a few million years....just imagine.
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:32 PM   #95
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But Darth, the simple fact that algae can occur with the right setting is what I am talking about, things happen.

Your view on god and the universe is very strange... the universe we know of was created for gods glory, nothing else, and according to southern baptist tradition, it is for us to view and behold the glory of gods work and what he can do.... hmmm
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:05 PM   #96
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"March a single person in here that was alive back then - a single eye witness that can support this theory."

Of course you can't do that, so I guess you win? But then again you do not have an eyewitness for what you believe either so your left with deciding between science and a book that is written a lot like a fairytale.

"Bring me the thousands of half human half fish, half birds that should be left trapped in the rubble of time - of the millions of years of time - that you reference."


Well this is just stupid, bones decompose, get eaten and get buried by several layers of rock. You can't uncover every bone by every creature left behind because most of the bones don't exist anymore. Out of the trillions of animals that have lived on this planet over the billions of years if every bone were to still exist and only be buried by 10 feet of dirt you would have bones everywhere you go!!! Bones are not indestructible, they have to be preserved in just the right way so that they can be found and studied on to provide accurate data.

When it comes down to it our belief is based on science and math the two things that are constantly giving society new reliable answers for medicine, engineering, and many other things humans inquire about. Religion has nothing to do with finding out the truth of any matter through evidence or even providing believable stories. Most religion was created a long time ago by people with very limited information but rather excessive imagination.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:47 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usasealx View Post
But Darth, the simple fact that algae can occur with the right setting is what I am talking about, things happen.

Your view on god and the universe is very strange... the universe we know of was created for gods glory, nothing else, and according to southern baptist tradition, it is for us to view and behold the glory of gods work and what he can do.... hmmm
You may use logic to base you perception of how everything came to be but your reading comprehension seems to be very shallow. Where does algea just happen? Any instance I know of it comes from algea spores from other locations.

I don't think you ever realized I was never in this conversation to convert you but only to show that when you reach the edges of the known world as described by science the answers tend to be virtually identical to creationism.

How did life start? God did it. It just happned. Wow those sounds drastically different, huh?

Where did the universe and all matter come form? It just always was. God created it. And where did God come for? He just always was. Again massive difference.

Really where in science do you not come to the ultimate logical conclusion of the reason something occurs is "it just happens"?
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:49 PM   #98
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Darth, but what is more probable... what is more logical... what makes more sense? When you ask these questions, there is only one answer, and that's what science can give you. Remember, early humans did not have a lot of information, so they relied on what they thought was going on at the time. Every wonder why hell has to be hot and fiery and "down there?" well because what did they observe? lava, deep depths of blackness, volcanic action, that must be hell! and Heaven.."up there?" well its beautiful, massive, elegant creatures with wings flying, must be the heavens! You have to look at the history of humans, and what we have been through as far as beliefs, and that will just tell you that we have been thinking the wrong things over and over and over again as far as gods, religions, and what the earth and space is.

And when you reach the unknown.. well that's just it, its unknown.. but it does not relate to creationism, because we still know how things form and work, as observed through scientific study, and with that knowledge we understand where all animal/plant life came from. Not to mention we can study the formation of stars, and to think god is still forming/destroying stars and galaxies is absurd. (not saying that's what you think)

Sorry, some of my points may not completely coincide with the direct subject, but what I was trying to get at is that the simple fact that it forms is complex and beautiful in itself, and it just shows that with all of the right settings/elements, and time, changes occur.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:48 PM   #99
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Your choice. Your belief system - and your faith that science is correct.

Ain't choice a beautiful thing.

Yup, you got me.

Science=wild ass guesses
faith=truth

The Scientific method is unreliable and will never work.
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Evolution – It’s NOT a theory, it's an observation.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:53 PM   #100
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This shit again?

God damn find something better to talk about.
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"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence." --Richard Dawkins
Old 03-11-2011, 10:21 PM   #101
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so, if those who believe in god are so irrational, then why does pretty much every athiest pray to God at some point during a firefight? seen it many times myself, and a die-hard athiest friend of mine found God during a firefight....
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:35 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthAWM View Post
How did life start? God did it. It just happned. Wow those sounds drastically different, huh?

Where did the universe and all matter come form? It just always was. God created it. And where did God come for? He just always was. Again massive difference.
I see this as the same as well. It always goes back to something beyond actual proof that is right before any of our eyes.


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Darth, but what is more probable... what is more logical... what makes more sense?
Logical, probable, sense?
What happened to Science?
sci·ence - a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
If Science is the answer lets use science and prove how it happened.

I see the Bible sort of like a race that took place a long time ago. It was documented by humans. Quite possibly there are some errors in the story of how the race went down. But the vast majority of what was written discussed and passed on was the actual winner and the dominate points of the race. Of course thats not an exact scientific explanation

Still goes back to perception and belief from what I gather.
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I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
Old 03-11-2011, 10:56 PM   #103
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All I can say is, I believe ,,, Let's just say you don't believe and there is a HELL , I don't want to go there. Ok, I go my whole life believing and I'm wrong and nothing happens when I die. no harm....
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:26 AM   #104
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Hardcore, that is just what happened to them, that has no meaning at all as to whats wrong/right.

Luke, if that is the only reason why you choose to believe what you do, then I have no idea what to tell you.

Look being able to understand evolution requires an understanding of how certain forces of nature work, and to someone who doesn't understand how science works it's difficult for them to accept things that are contrary to their beliefs despite our understanding of the facts. Because of the geologic forces of the Earth, it's possible (probable actually) that some of these "missing links" that everyone always screams for are lost forever. We find tons of dinosaur bones because dinosaurs roamed the Earth for MILLIONS of years, so there were lots of opportunities for fossilization to occur. Biological dead ends, however, are less likely to be found simply because of what they are, they're species that didn't survive for very long so evidence of their existence is difficult to find.

Evolution is a theory, yes, and there are pieces missing, yes, but like any other scientific theory it gives us the absolute best current understanding of a phenomena that has been observed. Back to what 69 was saying earlier.. these "half human half fish, half birds" things that you want to see never existed as far as science knows, and if anything like that ever IS found, science can and will adapt to the discovery and either update the old theory or toss it and form a new one because that's how science works.
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:31 AM   #105
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To add to the list, for anybody looking for info.. these are very nice sites to read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ve-births.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/jeb_enhanced/ (scientific journal)
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