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Old 11-18-2009, 06:05 PM   #16
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As for the air traffic controllers,no ,no one got killed, but not because of anything he did,but by the grace of God.
Guess God wasn't watching out for the Katrina victims then???

That sucks!

Guess God wasn't watching out for those air traffic controlers either?
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:32 PM   #17
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And, you do understand why that is correct? It wasn't because of anything Bush did, it was because those people took responsibility for themselves, and because their state and local government took appropriate steps. You do understand that the La. Gov. and Nagin were the highest authority in the situation and they dropped the ball.





So, your saying that they were evidently ready? They handled the task assigned to them?

RR had his faults, as everyone does. But your a bit overstated on the issues.
Sorry I disagree vehemently. Bush knew the levies wouldn't hold a category 3 let alone a category 5/6 . The federal government under Bush took money continually from the Corp of Engineers,money that was specially earmarked for rebuilding the levies.
He was told several times as Katrina entered the Gulf that this hurricane was headed exactly where it landed and levies wouldn't hold and that evaluation was advisable,none of this occurred.
As to R/R 's point on socialized medicine I listened and my point is this. In this country of so much wealth it is unconscionable for people to have no health insurance and the reason is they can't afford it. It is wrong for the elderly to have to choose either food or insurance because they can't afford,it WRONG for veteran's not being able to get the health care they need in today's society. Maybe we need to nationalize health care, not a foreign idea given the same idea was ventured forth about the gas companies. I personally think nationalization is wrong but if no one comes up with a better plan then so be it.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:53 PM   #18
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Those levies were built way before Bush and they were built to withstand Cat 2 hurricanes. And if the Army Corps of Engineers were requesting money to re-enforce the levies to Cat 3 you can rest assure that they started requesting that money way before Bush entered office. Bush just happen to be the man in charge when they failed.
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:09 AM   #19
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Sorry I disagree vehemently. Bush knew the levies wouldn't hold a category 3 let alone a category 5/6 . The federal government under Bush took money continually from the Corp of Engineers,money that was specially earmarked for rebuilding the levies.
He was told several times as Katrina entered the Gulf that this hurricane was headed exactly where it landed and levies wouldn't hold and that evaluation was advisable,none of this occurred.
I appreciate your response, but it's dead wrong. State and local government are responsible for evacuations and preparedness. Daddy fed isn't. That's why Texas, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, all had their shit together. Louisiana's gov. and mayor Nagin called the shots, not Bush. And the federal government under the 3 presidents prior to Bush did the same thing with corps money. I know for some people, laying everything on Bush is convenient, but the facts don't support the statements.

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As to R/R 's point on socialized medicine I listened and my point is this. In this country of so much wealth it is unconscionable for people to have no health insurance and the reason is they can't afford it. It is wrong for the elderly to have to choose either food or insurance because they can't afford,it WRONG for veteran's not being able to get the health care they need in today's society. Maybe we need to nationalize health care, not a foreign idea given the same idea was ventured forth about the gas companies. I personally think nationalization is wrong but if no one comes up with a better plan then so be it.
There are much better plans out there than whats being considered. The bill they are working on does not lower costs, does not improve care, does not improve access. Rest assured, the bill they are working on does 2 things for the fed, power and money. It will do nothing good for you nor anyone you know.



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Old 11-19-2009, 05:46 AM   #20
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There are much better plans out there than whats being considered. The bill they are working on does not lower costs, does not improve care, does not improve access. Rest assured, the bill they are working on does 2 things for the fed, power and money. It will do nothing good for you nor anyone you know.





The elderly should be against this bill big time.

Of all the uninsured there are some that choose NOT to be insured and can be if they choose, which skews the numbers.

There are about 12 million or so that are truly uninsured that need it.

If we address THOSE people and not force EVERYONE to participate in the gubmint plan it would be cheaper and more effective.


Freedom of choice for the people, the doctors, the employers, etc, is what we need to keep in place.
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I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
Old 11-19-2009, 05:55 PM   #21
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sorry
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:00 PM   #22
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I appreciate your response, but it's dead wrong. State and local government are responsible for evacuations and preparedness. Daddy fed isn't. That's why Texas, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, all had their shit together. Louisiana's gov. and mayor Nagin called the shots, not Bush. And the federal government under the 3 presidents prior to Bush did the same thing with corps money. I know for some people, laying everything on Bush is convenient, but the facts don't support the statements.



There are much better plans out there than whats being considered. The bill they are working on does not lower costs, does not improve care, does not improve access. Rest assured, the bill they are working on does 2 things for the fed, power and money. It will do nothing good for you nor anyone you know.
In the la times this morning a judge found that the government along with the corp of engineers was negligent and thereby responsible for the tragedy in Louisiana. Citing the neglect of the levies as the principal cause of the disaster. Bush had been warned repeatedly that the levies wouldn't hold but diverted monies earmarked especially for that project onto other things.I stand by my earlier statement that his administration was responsible for that tragedy
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:03 PM   #23
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In the la times this morning a judge found that the government along with the corp of engineers was negligent and thereby responsible for the tragedy in Louisiana. Citing the neglect of the levies as the principal cause of the disaster. Bush had been warned repeatedly that the levies wouldn't hold but diverted monies earmarked especially for that project onto other things.I stand by my earlier statement that his administration was responsible for that tragedy
I read the report too, but I didn't filter my results:

In a ruling that could leave the government open to billions of dollars in claims from Hurricane Katrina victims, a federal judge said late Wednesday that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had displayed "gross negligence" in failing to maintain a navigation channel -- resulting in levee breaches that flooded large swaths of greater New Orleans.

U.S. District Judge Stanwood R. Duval peppered his 156-page decision, issued in New Orleans, with harsh criticism of the Army corps, at one point citing its "insouciance, myopia and shortsightedness" in failing to maintain the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet, known locally as MRGO.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-a...,3370102.story

For more than 40 years, the judge said, the corps had known that a crucial levee protecting suburban St. Bernard Parish and the Lower 9th Ward neighborhood would be compromised by the deterioration of the channel. The corps had "myriad" ways to address the problem, he wrote, but failed to do so.

Sometimes, you just gotta read it in plain english and without the spin.



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Old 11-19-2009, 11:40 PM   #24
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No President can please all of the people, all of the time and as of today (no prediction about this in 3 years) every American citizen is still entitled to his or her own opinion. I've met enough Reagan haters to know that there is no changing their points of view. Almost invariably they cite one action or inaction of Reagan's that forever doomed him in their eyes. This is their right and perogative.

IMO, Ronald Reagan was one of the greatest Presidents we've ever had. He was a great American who believed in a Great America. He was a great communicator and a great, proud leader exactly when we needed just that. He helped us recover from the Viet Nam mistakes by reminding us of our heritage. He stood nose to nose with the USSR and they not only blinked, they died.

All he did is history now. It's all documented and opinionized - both sides - in many books. If you were old enough during his two terms, to understand what was happening in this country you have formed an opinion of him. If you weren't, go read some books - don't depend, no, don't ALLOW this thread to influence you to do anything other than your own research.

FWIW
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:23 AM   #25
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OK.

So did ANYBODY that posted listen to the flippin link??

Bravo. Yes, yes. Very timely.

Problem: Unlike 1961, we have an America that many people are very OK with big government and do not see or understand the evils of it like Ronald Reagan did in 1961.

Many Americans vote their pocketbook. If the candidate promises me more money in my bank account, I'll vote him in. Nothing beyond that matters. Could care less if our President has radical and racial dudes working for him.

Give me the money, daddy.
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Vote democrat. It's easier than thinking.

America: Land of Opportunity - especially if you are here illegally.

Bush - no child left behind policy
Obama - no president left behind
Old 11-20-2009, 04:49 AM   #26
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Many Americans vote their pocketbook. If the candidate promises me more money in my bank account, I'll vote him in. Nothing beyond that matters. Could care less if our President has radical and racial dudes working for him.

Give me the money, daddy.

Ahhh...

The trappings of Chicago Style Politics.

Promise more money, more programs, more services.

That's why the Dems ALWAYS get elected in Chicago and that's why the poor stay poor and never leave the hoods.

The powers that be really don't want the poor to change or to move up in life. THAT"S THEIR VOTING BASE!!


So on a larger scale, the Health Care bill is all about power.
Once this program gets passed we have created the Largest government agency in history.

Wake up America.

Matt383
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I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
Old 11-20-2009, 07:36 AM   #27
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Bravo. Yes, yes. Very timely.

Problem: Unlike 1961, we have an America that many people are very OK with big government and do not see or understand the evils of it like Ronald Reagan did in 1961.

Many Americans vote their pocketbook. If the candidate promises me more money in my bank account, I'll vote him in. Nothing beyond that matters. Could care less if our President has radical and racial dudes working for him.

Give me the money, daddy.
I'm hoping this is tongue in cheek. You realize that when you "vote your pocketbook" you are voting to take someone else's money from them. Have you seen the new movie "The Box"? It looks at this exact morality question except it's dealing with taking someone else's life. There is no difference. Either one is
immoral.
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Old 11-20-2009, 07:43 AM   #28
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I'm hoping this is tongue in cheek. You realize that when you "vote your pocketbook" you are voting to take someone else's money from them. Have you seen the new movie "The Box"? It looks at this exact morality question except it's dealing with taking someone else's life. There is no difference. Either one is
immoral.
No Tx, he isn't saying he does. He is saying that there are many people in the country now that do.



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Old 11-20-2009, 07:54 AM   #29
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Ahhh...

The trappings of Chicago Style Politics.

Promise more money, more programs, more services.

That's why the Dems ALWAYS get elected in Chicago and that's why the poor stay poor and never leave the hoods.

The powers that be really don't want the poor to change or to move up in life. THAT"S THEIR VOTING BASE!!


So on a larger scale, the Health Care bill is all about power.
Once this program gets passed we have created the Largest government agency in history.

Wake up America.

Matt383
I don't understand how people that pay taxes can be for the two versions of this bill. The only thing I figure is they don't read past the bullet points to dig into the facts and they also get caught in the hype of doing "something".

The health care reform was originally sold under the idea of reducing health care cost to make it more affordable to more people and creating uniform coverage rules. The reality is it will increase required expenses to all but the poor, reduces choice, grows goverment, and is going to cost tax payers even more money (most likely far more than the CBO estimates).
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-Matt
Old 11-20-2009, 08:43 AM   #30
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No Tx, he isn't saying he does. He is saying that there are many people in the country now that do.
I thought so. Just making sure. The bottom line on N. Orleans is, why are the taxpayers in the other 99.7% of the country expected to lay out billions in a futile attempt to make this uninhabitable area inhabitable for the short run? A huge number left for higher ground after the storm and stayed away. We should help the rest of them do the same.
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