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Old 06-27-2016, 04:58 PM   #1
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C8 Spy Pics - Finally Surfaced

The new rear-mid is being tested at GM proving grounds...

Bunch more pics...
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/27/m...#slide-3962547
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:25 PM   #2
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I don't like the tail lights
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Ain't THAT the mofo truth
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Old 06-28-2016, 12:04 AM   #3
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The C8 rear mid will very likely be significantly more expensive than the C7. To compete at that marketplace level, expect to see a new world class exterior design - less boy racer and more exotic. Hopefully a rear end that looks nothing like the C7.
(including multi cam) and power trains are interesting. Rear mid is a HUGE change they are asking the Corvette world to accept. I doubt they would risk further offense by excluding a V8 at intro. The question is, what multi cam engine would make sense? Keeping the current LT1 would provide 460HP in base form. Placed behind the driver, more of those hores will hook up and move the vette to 60 quicker.

However, the highest HP multicam engine in GM's arsenal, of which I am aware, is the 420HP TT V6. That engine would only make sense if there was another ~150 HP from electric motors up front.
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Old 06-28-2016, 05:20 AM   #4
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I hope they don't call it a Corvette or a StingRay. Call it something else, and I hope it sells well, but for the vast majority of buyers, pushing the purchasing price to supercar levels simply means there will be significantly fewer buyers.

Continue developing a competitively priced sports car for the masses, and the masses will buy it.

I don't want to give up all things that I love about the C6 - the combination of performance, luxury, and capability - so I can have a car that performs marginally better than the one I have.

Reminder to GM: New Coke...

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Old 06-28-2016, 06:14 AM   #5
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I agree Steven. If this midengine is real (I'll believe it when it's on showroom floors), then it'll be beyond the reach of most current Corvette buyers. One article said in the realm of $400k (like the Ford GT).

Chevy needs to keep the standard layout and keep it priced as it is. That keeps both new and used buyers happy (I bought an 02 Z06 for under $20k). They can make this halo car and go kill the exotics on the track as a side project. (Even though the current C7R does quite well beating up on cars 3x it's price now, in its mid-front configuration.)

Funny thing is I hear lots of guys clamoring for a mid engine, without understanding the sacrifice of interior space, storage space, cost to buy and cost to maintain/service. The Corvette owners I know want all those things to be reasonable and they're satisfied with base HP...and REALLY satisfied with current Z06 HP.

It needs to be called the Zora. I believe he always wanted one laid out like this.

Time will tell.
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Old 06-28-2016, 01:01 PM   #6
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Cargo capacity for today's rear-mid Boxster - probably a much smaller car than the rear mid Vette will be - is 9.7 Cu Ft. Today's C7 is down significantly from the C6 and is only 15CF in the coupe and (apples to apples>) 10 Cu Ft for the C7 vert. Not much different.

However, the Boxster uses front and rear compartments - neither of which accommodate a set of golf clubs, if that is an issue for you. No idea, of course, what arrangement the C8 will have.

Pricing probability, I think it depends on volume target, but I seriously doubt any amount over $200k even if it is only a limited production car. If, as some speculation suggests, the rear-mid becomes the only vette chassis, I think they will place a higher priority on utility (cargo) while pricing it in the $59k - $120k range bare bones to Z06 equivalent. Boxsters are now at $52-$82.

What are the new, unique costs for rear mid?
Why so "low" for a rear mid? Today's vette chassis is very unique. No parts are shared with Camaro or Cad. Only the engines and some transmission and differential pieces are shared. Unique is unique. Doesn't matter if it's front mid or rearmid. The components shared with Camaro and Cad can be rearranged for an effective rearmid, while not significantly increasing the cost of the parts, if at all. Keep in mind that the tranny is currently in the rear with the diff - unique.
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Old 06-28-2016, 01:33 PM   #7
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Likely that all Vettes will be rear mid - Current Tooling Investment

Applying Largest Unique Cost
The biggest single cost of a Rear Mid is the tooling at BG, which is already being re-vamped. The latest number that I have seen is $290MILLION in modifications to BG currently following $439M to BG last year - last year was ostensibly for an upgraded paint room + "other" stuff.

Even if we had no pics of a rear mid in development, this is the biggest proof that a BIG change is coming. Tooling cost for the the change from C6 to C7 was ~$79M. They also added a $52M Aluminum frame manufacturing unit at that time, but now that it is in place, it just needs updates going forward for any type of frame.

IF this investment is mostly or all for rear mid tooling, the numbers indicate the likelihood that all vettes will be rear mid. A total of 4684 C6 ZR1 were produced from '09-'13. If we assume a 5k unit production run of rear mid (both front and rear mid sold side by side), the tooling cost per unit is $87,800. Parts unique to the rear mid would be very costly if the economic order quantity is only 5,000 units. Still, an ~$200k price tag wouldn't be too unreasonable - just not a lot of profit built in. Got to amortize the engineering and baseline factory costs too.

So, the $439M is a huge tie up of capital for only 5000 halo units when the Z06 is a pretty good performer. But if we assume all vettes will eventually be rear mid, a production of 30,000 units per year for 5 years (all Vettes sold), that's only $2,927 / Vette sold - a much better business case and far less of a price impact that most of us have assumed. Plus it is likely that some of that $439M tooling would remain in place for future generations of the Rearmid (less amortization per unit and less price impact). Still have to add in those engineering and factory costs, but those are (mostly) part of the price building in existing models. The number of units is the key impact - obviously.
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Old 06-28-2016, 04:42 PM   #8
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All of the usual auto journalists, in their never-ending quest to sell magazines and/or their web sites, have yet again cranked up the age-old "IS THIS THE NEXT CORVETTE?" furor. They are all over the place on what the fuzzy photos of the featured car represents, but it may cost anything from 70K to 400K (yikes!), may or not feature a hybrid powertrain, and in fact may or may not even be a Corvette (Some claim it will be a Cadillac).

Time will tell, of course. Yes, there are apparently running prototypes of a rear-mid-engine car. It is real - or eventually will be. I have said all along that I would believe it when I see it . . . OK, I've seen it (well, sort of). It does exist.

I just don't know exactly what it is I've seen yet - and neither do you. And you know what? Neither do all those auto journalists. In spite of all their hype, they are as clueless as we are. But, they have product to sell. All will be revealed in the fullness of time. Personally, I'm in no hurry. Sounds like I won't be the target market for this new car, whatever it turns out to be. Glad I kept the C6 convertible instead of trading it, and even gladder I have the 1962.

Stay tuned. We'll all find out together. And yeah, the taillights suck.

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Old 06-28-2016, 05:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyreline View Post
Time will tell, of course. Yes, there are apparently running prototypes of a rear-mid-engine car. It is real - or eventually will be. I have said all along that I would believe it when I see it . . . OK, I've seen it (well, sort of). It does exist.n fact may or may not even be a Corvette
Of course you are right; it could be a Cadillac, but two things are pretty certain: 1) It will be VERY different from the C7 2) It will be built at Bowling Green.

Third is less certain: The amount of money they are spending at BG seems more likely to be for an annual volume like Corvette, not a Cadillac.

ALSO, would GM EVER be willing to slap a non-vette nameplate on any other GM car that could out-perform all Corvettes? I seriously doubt it.

That would leave it either a Corvette, or an i8 type car that doesn't perform to Corvette levels. A possibility, but REALLY expensive.
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