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Old 06-19-2014, 02:32 PM   #91
snydes
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Thanks. Nice write up by the way!
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:33 PM   #92
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Thanks. Nice write up by the way!
Many more on this forum for the C5 from me.
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Old 06-30-2014, 05:23 PM   #93
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Unhappy Several issues when I did mine

I'm only half way thru this job and it's turned into a real pain. Let it be known...I read over the steps several times to become completely familiar with the process. I also printed them out and placed them nearby for quick referral
1. The first thing that hit me was my drain plug. It's designed to use a ratchet inserted into the center of the plug and then you turn it. No coolant would flow until I used a screw driver to pop the plug out and then I got flow. Two hours trying to figure this out.
2. As soon as I removed the inlet and outlet hoses from the pump, coolant gushed out all over the passenger side of the engine bay and down to the floor. I quickly put the outlet hose back and looked over the instructions for something I must have missed. Nope! Obviously, there was a great deal of coolant in the engine that did NOT drain from the radiator. This clearly suggests there's a step missing in the how-to-do-it. Perhaps after draining the radiator, you run the engine to push the coolant out of the engine back to the radiator. I'm guessing maybe you need to do this a couple of times?
3. After wiping up the coolant on the floor, I'm ready to remove the water pump. Oh no! The only way I could gain access to the three pump bolts on the driver's side is to remove the bracket that holds the power steering reservoir to the alternator. This was not easy and took another hour and half.
So now the pump is finally off and the fun of installing the new one begins. Perhaps tomorrow.
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:44 PM   #94
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You are definitely doing it wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippit View Post
... 1. The first thing that hit me was my drain plug. It's designed to use a ratchet inserted into the center of the plug and then you turn it. No coolant would flow until I used a screw driver to pop the plug out and then I got flow. Two hours trying to figure this out.
Can't help you with the drain cock. Sounds like Shade Tree Thomas got there before you did and changed something. Every C5 radiator I have seen has a drain cock like mine. Even my El Camino has the same drain cock.

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2. As soon as I removed the inlet and outlet hoses from the pump, coolant gushed out all over the passenger side of the engine bay and down to the floor. I quickly put the outlet hose back and looked over the instructions for something I must have missed. Nope! Obviously, there was a great deal of coolant in the engine that did NOT drain from the radiator. This clearly suggests there's a step missing in the how-to-do-it. Perhaps after draining the radiator, you run the engine to push the coolant out of the engine back to the radiator. I'm guessing maybe you need to do this a couple of times?
That would be a good way to mess up your engine. It sounds like you didn't allow the car to drain completely. Although not necessary, you could have either lowered the front end or raised the rear end to get any remaining fluid out of the block. That simple.

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3. After wiping up the coolant on the floor, I'm ready to remove the water pump. Oh no! The only way I could gain access to the three pump bolts on the driver's side is to remove the bracket that holds the power steering reservoir to the alternator. This was not easy and took another hour and half.
Now you're really trying to screw the pooch! That is TOTALLY NOT NECESSARY! As a matter of fact, I'm going to include in this post the instructions from the GM service manual, which is the exact same one that they use at EVERY GM dealership. Now show me where the power steering bracket needs to be removed?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2003 Water Pump Replacement.pdf (890.0 KB, 105 views)
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Old 07-01-2014, 01:00 PM   #95
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The radiator you have is a newer design and has not been hacked up by anyone...

Also running the motor after you have drained the radiator is a good idea. Just running it for 30 seconds will be enough to pump the water in the pump and block into the radiator. Also running with out any coolant will not hurt anything so long as you don't do it to long....

If a motor is cool running it at idle with no coolant for 2-3 min won't hurt anything....
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Old 07-01-2014, 01:34 PM   #96
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Quote:
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The radiator you have is a newer design and has not been hacked up by anyone...
You have a picture of this "newer" design? Every C5 stock radiator I have seen is pretty much exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by mayday0017 View Post
Also running the motor after you have drained the radiator is a good idea. Just running it for 30 seconds will be enough to pump the water in the pump and block into the radiator. Also running with out any coolant will not hurt anything so long as you don't do it to long....
Which is totally unnecessary. If you give the coolant time to drain, you won't have to risk damage to your motor. Notice that the GM engineers who DESIGNED the car do NOT call for that procedure.

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If a motor is cool running it at idle with no coolant for 2-3 min won't hurt anything....
Two to three minutes? Famous last words. I wouldn't take that advice.
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:34 AM   #97
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I purchased the car new, from a dealer. I've never had the radiator replaced nor had anything done to the cooling system at all. The only "garage" work I've had done was installation of a racing cam and replacement of the clutch. Perhaps the cam mechanic is responsible for this non-standard drain plug. FWIW, the one I removed is pretty chewed up after all my efforts to figure out how to get the coolant to flow, so it's been replaced with the type with a tab that you simply twist.
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:37 AM   #98
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Smart idea. I have drained the coolant on my car MULTIPLE times and have never had an issue with my drain cock.
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:58 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkman2008 View Post
You have a picture of this "newer" design? Every C5 stock radiator I have seen is pretty much exactly the same.

Here is a wonderful schematic drawing for you and a link to someone else with a C5 corvette with the same style drain plug (oh and I have it too on the brand new radiator I bought from dealer and installed last month).


http://www.iammoon.com/c5tech/coolant_drain.htm


They are switching to this out of common sense, the plastic tabs get brittle over time with heat cycles and end up breaking when you try to twist them. If you have a insert the area of applied torque is larger making it less prone to break (which now it can't break at all only strip).




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Which is totally unnecessary. If you give the coolant time to drain, you won't have to risk damage to your motor. Notice that the GM engineers who DESIGNED the car do NOT call for that procedure.

Never said it was "Necessary" just that it won't hurt anything and will make less of a mess then not doing it... Just like when you change the oil in a car with a vertical oil filter. If you know what you are doing and have done it before you know that the oil is going to make a huge mess you will have to clean up. So why not be smart and take a punch and poke a hole in the bottom of the filter before removing it so it can drain? The FSM won't tell you to do that but is it wrong?



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Two to three minutes? Famous last words. I wouldn't take that advice.

Fair enough, each person can trust who they want. I don't trust the design engineers at times. They make mistakes too (regularly according to GM's recall record). I also work on 100's of vehicles every year and get paid more per hour then local dealership because I am considered an expert. But I too make mistakes... Just a human thing... But this isn't one...
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:15 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by mayday0017 View Post
Here is a wonderful schematic drawing for you and a link to someone else with a C5 corvette with the same style drain plug (oh and I have it too on the brand new radiator I bought from dealer and installed last month).


http://www.iammoon.com/c5tech/coolant_drain.htm


They are switching to this out of common sense, the plastic tabs get brittle over time with heat cycles and end up breaking when you try to twist them. If you have a insert the area of applied torque is larger making it less prone to break (which now it can't break at all only strip).

This necessity to redesign comes from "technicians" who "over-torque" the drain cock in the first place. Just like the sticker on a hair dryer that says NOT to use it in the shower. It's not a case of a design flaw, it's a case of enough people not using common sense so the engineers had to try and make it dummy proof. I see that OFTEN in a lot of different field. Looks like that became evident here.

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Never said it was "Necessary" just that it won't hurt anything and will make less of a mess then not doing it.
If that is the case, why don't I have that same issue with all the times I've drained my coolant? Maybe I'm doing it right?

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.. Just like when you change the oil in a car with a vertical oil filter. If you know what you are doing and have done it before you know that the oil is going to make a huge mess you will have to clean up. So why not be smart and take a punch and poke a hole in the bottom of the filter before removing it so it can drain? The FSM won't tell you to do that but is it wrong?
But like you said, it's not necessary.

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Fair enough, each person can trust who they want. I don't trust the design engineers at times. They make mistakes too (regularly according to GM's recall record). I also work on 100's of vehicles every year and get paid more per hour then local dealership because I am considered an expert. But I too make mistakes... Just a human thing... But this isn't one...
If you say so, but I ONLY work on one car all the time. That is the 1997-2004 C5 Corvette. I touch no other car. So I have some very intimate time with this puppy and I know her well.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:32 AM   #101
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Quote:
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This necessity to redesign comes from "technicians" who "over-torque" the drain cock in the first place. Just like the sticker on a hair dryer that says NOT to use it in the shower. It's not a case of a design flaw, it's a case of enough people not using common sense so the engineers had to try and make it dummy proof. I see that OFTEN in a lot of different field. Looks like that became evident here.
You are probably right, I find that TSB's typically lie and that a non engineer that only works on his own car and helps a friend out probably has more inside information about design changes.... You wanted proof cause this guy had some hack work on his car and I was a liar so I proved it now you are just still trying to be right, let it go.



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If that is the case, why don't I have that same issue with all the times I've drained my coolant? Maybe I'm doing it right?
Or maybe you are telling a fib? Because it is NOT possible to pull the water pump after draining only the radiator and not having a mess on the floor. Even if you run the pump (the engine) for a min or 2 there will still be a trickle (mind you much less then if you drain only the radiator).


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But like you said, it's not necessary.
Yep still "NOT NECESSARY" it just prevents you from having a mess on your floor.


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If you say so, but I ONLY work on one car all the time. That is the 1997-2004 C5 Corvette. I touch no other car. So I have some very intimate time with this puppy and I know her well.
Oh your car is a 1997-2004 model, that's pretty sweet how do they value a car that spreads 7 years? Do they give you the value for oldest, newest, or average it out?

We both know you are wrong already, pics proved it and you admitted that you only work on your own car (kinda limited knowledge). But we can keep arguing and looking like bickering kids cause I find it fun/amusing even if everyone else doesn't....
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:45 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by mayday0017 View Post
You are probably right, I find that TSB's typically lie and that a non engineer that only works on his own car and helps a friend out probably has more inside information about design changes.... You wanted proof cause this guy had some hack work on his car and I was a liar so I proved it now you are just still trying to be right, let it go.
Typical response for another GM engineer hater. Tell you what, when you show me a paycheck with a little GM logo and your name on it, I'll get impressed. Until then, you're just another guy on the Internet who thinks that he knows more than the guys who designed the car from the ground up. Yea, right.

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Or maybe you are telling a fib?
Seriously? And for what reason would I have to lie to of all people, YOU? Everyone here knows that I know my C5's. To think that I would need to lie to some noob on the site is laughable. Maybe you should find out what someone knows before you noob yourself to death.

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Oh your car is a 1997-2004 model, that's pretty sweet how do they value a car that spreads 7 years? Do they give you the value for oldest, newest, or average it out?

We both know you are wrong already, pics proved it and you admitted that you only work on your own car (kinda limited knowledge). But we can keep arguing and looking like bickering kids cause I find it fun/amusing even if everyone else doesn't....
No, we won't keep arguing because in a poof, you can be gone. So you will now quit dirtying up my thread or you can take a ride on the vacation train. See? No more argument.
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:24 AM   #103
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You wish is granted. Some people never learn.

Last edited by Junkman2008; 07-03-2014 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:43 AM   #104
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My radiator is the newer design with the 1/4 inch insert as well. I have had it open at least a half dozen times. Its not a hack it new design. GM made it so because of just the reason mayday said. The tabs will fail after time and because of techs turning them to far thinking they screw out when in fact it unlocks and pulls out slightly.

As far as running the engine, you can run it for longer than a few minutes without water, but I would only do that if I knew I was replacing the water pump anyway as the coolant also lubricates the water pump bearings. That is the only issue along with overheating that will arise from running the engine with no water.

That said, I wouldn't run the engine, I would remove the radiator hose and finish draining the fluid if it was going to be an issue.

Now as to the banning, would he have been banned if this was anybody elses thread that disagreed with him?

I doth protest that the banneth wand has been used to freely.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:50 AM   #105
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My radiator is the newer design with the 1/4 inch insert as well. I have had it open at least a half dozen times. Its not a hack it new design. GM made it so because of just the reason mayday said. The tabs will fail after time and because of techs turning them to far thinking they screw out when in fact it unlocks and pulls out slightly.
Isn't that the same thing that I said? People doing it wrong so it had to be redesigned instead of telling people to do it right?


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I doth protest that the banneth wand has been used to freely.
He was warned first. If you get warned and still want to be an ass, you get the pink slip. When you mess with the bull, you get the horns. By the way, you meant "too freely".
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