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Old 01-13-2015, 05:15 PM   #31
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Could this be a move by GM to create Corvette as a brand ? A base car, hi-po car and halo mid engined car.
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Old 01-13-2015, 05:22 PM   #32
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I see it more of a bridge between being a sports car to being a supercar. The transition from what the current cost is to what it is going to be. It will be a significant upgrade and the clientele may change a bit or it will be preparing current owners of the switch in philosophy.

We all know that the current Corvette buyers were not enthused with the current styling. We tend to be a conservative bunch. The C8 will be anything but conservative.

If the new Ford GT will start at around $250,000, where should the C8 be slotted. Even the Viper is at a higher price point, so this will provide something for everyone until the transition is complete. IMHO
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:48 PM   #33
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Why a Mid Rear C8?
  • Engineering has stated that the C7 chassis is about as far as the Front mid design can progress - limited by physics. The next significant jump in performance would require a mid rear engine design. ...something Zora figured out in the 60's BTW.
  • Secrets don't stay secrets very long in Detroit. GM has known about Ford's new GT for a long time. Ford and GM have always had a "Tit for Tat" impact on each other. There was C8 rear mid engineering work that was set aside at the time of the bankruptcy so the Ford move makes resuming the C8 an easier sell to the GM BOD.
  • The ZR-1 proved that a $100k+ Corvette that didn't have a unique exterior or chassis design could sell in limited numbers consistently. This helped kill the arguments that cited the lack of XLR sales due to high price. So add an even higher than C7 level of performance and a unique body & chassis should deliver higher sales numbers (yet still modest) if priced right.

IMO all these things opened the door for a C8 Rear mid.
Also, for some those who haven't followed this closely, all of the GM sourced rumors insist that the C8 is NOT a replacement for the C7. The two models will sell side by side for at least a few years. Will the C8 rear mid chassis be the basis for the C9 replacement of the C7? I don't think anyone at GM is ready to throw out the front mid chassis as yet.
JMHO

BTW, Ford has avoided stating whether the new Ford GT is a limited run like the last Ford GT. I've read both that Ford walked away from a lot of potential sales last time and also that there were Ford GTs on the lots for a long time. I did read that their targets are the Lambo Hurucan and others priced around $275k. That article suggested the new Ford GT would sell for $225-250k. Surely they can make a profit at that price.
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Old 01-16-2015, 04:41 PM   #34
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Ford GT revealed at the Detroit Auto show... all I can say ... WOW ! it even has a round tail light proving that there is nothing wrong with round. !
I had the exact same thought!!!! Designers can make round tail lights work on an edgy design.

Hat's off to the Ford team for celebrating their car's heritage and not following the crowd.
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:01 AM   #35
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Why a Mid Rear C8?
  • Engineering has stated that the C7 chassis is about as far as the Front mid design can progress - limited by physics. The next significant jump in performance would require a mid rear engine design. ...something Zora figured out in the 60's BTW.
  • Secrets don't stay secrets very long in Detroit. GM has known about Ford's new GT for a long time. Ford and GM have always had a "Tit for Tat" impact on each other. There was C8 rear mid engineering work that was set aside at the time of the bankruptcy so the Ford move makes resuming the C8 an easier sell to the GM BOD.
  • The ZR-1 proved that a $100k+ Corvette that didn't have a unique exterior or chassis design could sell in limited numbers consistently. This helped kill the arguments that cited the lack of XLR sales due to high price. So add an even higher than C7 level of performance and a unique body & chassis should deliver higher sales numbers (yet still modest) if priced right.

IMO all these things opened the door for a C8 Rear mid.
Also, for some those who haven't followed this closely, all of the GM sourced rumors insist that the C8 is NOT a replacement for the C7. The two models will sell side by side for at least a few years. Will the C8 rear mid chassis be the basis for the C9 replacement of the C7? I don't think anyone at GM is ready to throw out the front mid chassis as yet.
JMHO

BTW, Ford has avoided stating whether the new Ford GT is a limited run like the last Ford GT. I've read both that Ford walked away from a lot of potential sales last time and also that there were Ford GTs on the lots for a long time. I did read that their targets are the Lambo Hurucan and others priced around $275k. That article suggested the new Ford GT would sell for $225-250k. Surely they can make a profit at that price.
Ford benchmarked the 458 Speciale for performance. The C7 Z07 already surpasses that. I'm actually wondering if the GT will actually be any faster.

If you think about Ford in it's last generation of performance cars (mostly Mustang Variants) they were all pretty one dimensional. It's going to be interesting to see if they can close the gap on the track (the new Mustang GT/track pack didn't).
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:58 AM   #36
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The newly re-introduced Ford GT appears to be an awesome car . . . but at a quarter-million-dollar price point, it's going to be a tough sell after the first few jock-sniffers snap them up. In order to be successful in the long term, it will need to be livable every day in a way the last reiteration of the Ford GT never really was, and at the same time it had better be able to easily show its heels to the 2015 Z06 on the track. I don't think it will be able to do either of those things. So, what does this mean for the mid-engined Corvette mule shown here?

I see the new car as a companion piece to the more conventional front mid-engined C8 which is already in the pipeline. I could see it built in limited numbers, at a $140,000 to $150,000 price point due to a lot of shared parts and technology with the "regular" Corvette, and serving as a rolling, production test bed for emerging C8 technology. I don't know about the Cadillac connection - does Cadillac really "need" such a car? It seems to me that the future of that division lies more in ultra-luxury sedans, high-end SUVs, and sporty BMW-fighting cars such as the ATS-V. While a mid-engined sports car might be nice to have, if it appears as a Cadillac it will, in my opinion, follow the route of the late, unlamented XLR - which was a nice enough car in its own right, offering a few features the companion Corvette did not have such as the retractable hardtop, but in the end being seen as nothing more than a fancy Corvette. Perhaps sharing any new rear mid-engined platform with Cadillac would let GM grab a few more sales initially, but I don't see it enjoying any more long-term success than the XLR did.

I hope they build the rear mid-engine Corvette, and I hope they call it the Zora. I hope it kicks the new Ford GT's ass on the track, if not in the showroom. I may even buy one, we'll see what the "regular" C8 amounts to first - it may be hard to justify the additional cost for performance I would rarely if ever use. I believe we are, right at this moment, closer than we have ever been to seeing the rear mid-engine Corvette become a reality. While I don't think that GM "needs" this car, I applaud their apparent intention to build it anyway - if for no other reason than to embarrass the new Ford GT. And just because they can. For a long time it has been my position that we would not see such a car for quite a few years yet.

But I could be wrong. I kind of hope so. Build it.
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:14 AM   #37
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We all know that the current Corvette buyers were not enthused with the current styling.
How come?
I've driven C3's forever...This is the first new Corvette I and a few other C3 owners were ever motivated to purchase.
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Old 01-18-2015, 01:28 PM   #38
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How come?
I've driven C3's forever...This is the first new Corvette I and a few other C3 owners were ever motivated to purchase.
The design of the C7 is very polarizing. Most folks either really like it or hate it. I still have my purchased new C3, but I detest the design of the C7 and will definitely skip ownership of this generation.

Glad you like the C7 and will support this generation by buying one.
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Old 01-18-2015, 02:37 PM   #39
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Many of you remember when Chris Bangle redesigned the rear end on the 7 series BMW. The faithful wanted to burn him at the stake. Owners screamed and cried for a year or two. Now he's considered a design hero. Even GM has that trunk bussle" on the Malibu.
http://jalopnik.com/we-were-all-wron...het-1664079107
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Old 01-18-2015, 05:48 PM   #40
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Sorry, I don't buy into the "Yeah, we know you hate it - but you'll get used to it" school of design. Ugly is still ugly. Just my opinion, of course - but I'm entitled to it.
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:22 PM   #41
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Many of you remember when Chris Bangle redesigned the rear end on the 7 series BMW. The faithful wanted to burn him at the stake. Owners screamed and cried for a year or two. Now he's considered a design hero. Even GM has that trunk bussle" on the Malibu.
http://jalopnik.com/we-were-all-wron...het-1664079107
FWIW, the Malibu is continually losing market share and despite the recent minor makeover, GM has been frantically working on a complete radical redesign that they hope will catch and surpass the contemporary designs at Ford, Kia, Mazda, and Chrysler.

Besides, if Bangle had placed elk horns on the hood of all BMWs, there would now be all variations of animal antlers, horns, and racks (no, not the twin peaks kind of racks) adorning wannabe bimmers throughout the industry.
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:10 AM   #42
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FWIW, the Malibu is continually losing market share and despite the recent minor makeover, GM has been frantically working on a complete radical redesign that they hope will catch and surpass the contemporary designs at Ford, Kia, Mazda, and Chrysler.

Besides, if Bangle had placed elk horns on the hood of all BMWs, there would now be all variations of animal antlers, horns, and racks (no, not the twin peaks kind of racks) adorning wannabe bimmers throughout the industry.
There are many reasons for that (the car got smaller and is splitting sales with Impala), but the car definitely has some issues. That's why a new one will be shown this year.
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:22 PM   #43
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There are many reasons for that (the car got smaller and is splitting sales with Impala), but the car definitely has some issues. That's why a new one will be shown this year.
So putting a Bangle Butt on the Malibu was not a magic sales potion. Yes some of the lesser imaginative design centers for I-want-to-be-a-bimmer manufactures have followed the bogus bangle butt, while others didn't and have been pretty successful in not following the crowd:
Kia sales have taken off since their sculptured design showed up in the showroom and the Ford Fusion has gained significant market share since wth their current design. VW's CC has also done well.

I sure didn't need to get used to the look of the C2 or the XKE or the early '70s Chevelle SS 396/427/454 or plenty of other newer, and older designs I could name - some of which I'm sure you would hate. Some folks learn to love their arranged marriage partners too, looks and all. I suppose there must be some folks that miss a wart when it is removed. Not saying this applies in any way to you. For me, just because I might get used to seeing something, it doesn't make it beautiful, or even acceptable. Hell, I'm used to seeing congressmen on the news every night. Doesn't mean I believe a damn word they say and not one of them is beautiful. AH...can't imagine why this came to mind right after the congressman comment, but plenty of guys get hair plugs (maybe eventually they look OK) but they sure aren't beautiful when you spot a fresh set of plugs.

Regardless, we can (and we have in the past) gone back and forth on our preferences all day, or all month. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you like it buy it. If you don't, don't.
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:43 AM   #44
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So putting a Bangle Butt on the Malibu was not a magic sales potion. Yes some of the lesser imaginative design centers for I-want-to-be-a-bimmer manufactures have followed the bogus bangle butt, while others didn't and have been pretty successful in not following the crowd:
Kia sales have taken off since their sculptured design showed up in the showroom and the Ford Fusion has gained significant market share since wth their current design. VW's CC has also done well.

I sure didn't need to get used to the look of the C2 or the XKE or the early '70s Chevelle SS 396/427/454 or plenty of other newer, and older designs I could name - some of which I'm sure you would hate. Some folks learn to love their arranged marriage partners too, looks and all. I suppose there must be some folks that miss a wart when it is removed. Not saying this applies in any way to you. For me, just because I might get used to seeing something, it doesn't make it beautiful, or even acceptable. Hell, I'm used to seeing congressmen on the news every night. Doesn't mean I believe a damn word they say and not one of them is beautiful. AH...can't imagine why this came to mind right after the congressman comment, but plenty of guys get hair plugs (maybe eventually they look OK) but they sure aren't beautiful when you spot a fresh set of plugs.

Regardless, we can (and we have in the past) gone back and forth on our preferences all day, or all month. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you like it buy it. If you don't, don't.
Looks are not what is killing Malibu. The issue is the car got smaller (on the inside) and is not putting up great numbers (for it's class) in virtually any metric.

Take Camry for example, it's never really been a looker, but it sells on branding and relative performance. A car doesn't have to look fantastic to sell, it's just got to have good press. Malibu took a beating on the small back seat and didn't have any other class leading measures (except interior noise) to make up for it. What this will do is hopefully give Malibu a fresh reboot, address the big issues, and give GM an chance to improve it's performance numbers in what might be the most competitive segment.

Fusion isn't selling as well now, I think the problem it has is that the looks got dated pretty quickly.

Kia is selling because they have decent performance numbers and will literally finance to anyone.
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:49 AM   #45
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Ok. The Bangal Butt was/is a fad that had little or not impact on actual sales.

IMO, it demonstrated the high level of influence that BMW is able to exercise in the industry. Even Bangal steadily softened the butt after the initial 7 series extreme until it is just about gone.
2002


2015


You think he was inspired by this?

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