Mid-Engined Corvette Spy Photos - Page 5 - Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums
 
 
Go Back   Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums > C8 Corvette Forums > C8 Corvette
Register Forums Garage Garage Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowInsurance Advertise

Notices

C8 Corvette General | Technical | Performance | Aftermarket | Discussions

Other sections:
Corvettes Classifieds
Corvette Detailing & Car Care
Corvette Audio/Video/Radar
General Automotive/Shop/Tools
Corvette Performance Driving/Racing

Shops/Tuners
Custom Image Corvettes
A&A Corvette
Corvette tuner

Interior
Corvette aftermarket products

Insurance



Parts & Products
Race Ramps
Edelbrock
ATI/Procharger
Corvetteguys.com
Melrose Motorsports
Parts Taxi
Airaid
Pfadt Racing
Madvette Motorsports
Hi-tech Custom Concepts
Corvette Garage
Corvette Parts and Accessories
Corvette Car Care Products
Corvette HID

Tracks/Schools
Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving
Corvette driving school

Wheels/Tires
Cray Wheels

Services
BADWERKS.com
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-22-2015, 11:39 AM   #61
spd98
DC Crew
 
spd98's Avatar
 
Posts: 675
Member #4658
Member since: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Thanks: 10
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
I'm betting the GT is't much faster (if any) around tracks than the Z06.
spd98 is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-22-2015, 11:46 AM   #62
Longtimer
DC Pit Crew Boss
 
Longtimer's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,024
Member #3668
Member since: Nov 2003
Location: So Cal

My Corvette(s)
'07 Z51 6Mn NCM delivery, '79 L82 4 sp gymk - Gone '87 Z52 4+3, 76 L-82 4 spd

Thanks: 523
Thanked 504 Times in 363 Posts
I have no doubts that with the help of the car rags, we will find out not only which of the two is fastest, but if they continue resent trends, the rags will tell us in which part of the courses one performs better than the other and by how much.

Looking forward to that inevitable comparo.
Longtimer is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Corvette ownership is like owning your own fountain of youth ... and we get a sip from it each time the signal turns green.
Old 01-23-2015, 06:55 AM   #63
spd98
DC Crew
 
spd98's Avatar
 
Posts: 675
Member #4658
Member since: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Thanks: 10
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longtimer View Post
I have no doubts that with the help of the car rags, we will find out not only which of the two is fastest, but if they continue resent trends, the rags will tell us in which part of the courses one performs better than the other and by how much.

Looking forward to that inevitable comparo.
No doubt, but my point is that thus far GM has outperformed Ford in chassis tuning and design time and time again in recent history, they have a lot of ground to make up.
spd98 is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2015, 09:22 AM   #64
ddregehr
DC Crew
 
ddregehr's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,367
Member #30032
Member since: Feb 2005
Location: SD

My Corvette(s)
50th Anniversary Corvette Convertible (sold); 2002 Corvette Convertible

Thanks: 15
Thanked 81 Times in 67 Posts
IMHO, Ford doesn't have catching up to do. They provide engines to NASCAR and are involved in many race events. The R&D is done through and driven by racing. Although I am a born and bread Chevy guy, I can respect their vehicles. The last GT was considered a supercar, but Top Gear only gave the Z06 the "Muscle Car of the Year" award. Many still can't see the Corvette as a supercar on price alone. Specs is a different story altogether.

The finesse needed to put a supercar together is the only thing that I can think of that Ford lacks. Interior and creature comforts, but I think they can address that.
ddregehr is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2015, 10:39 AM   #65
Longtimer
DC Pit Crew Boss
 
Longtimer's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,024
Member #3668
Member since: Nov 2003
Location: So Cal

My Corvette(s)
'07 Z51 6Mn NCM delivery, '79 L82 4 sp gymk - Gone '87 Z52 4+3, 76 L-82 4 spd

Thanks: 523
Thanked 504 Times in 363 Posts
I can see both of your points. Ford doesn't have as much experience with IRS as GM does. GM has been "milking" every last bit of capability from a front mid IRS Corvette for decades while Ford has been doing the same for the solid axle 'Stang actively for a decade or so. Before then, for the 'Stang, track handling, IMO, was not their focus and NASCAR still uses solid rear axles.

The Ford GT was good, but it was only produced for two years and nearly all of that production and development was out-sourced. Carol Shelby's team played a major roll in chassis design. So not much chassis development, if any, went on during its very limited two year production run. In fact, if you read about the Ford GTs that were raced, the phrase "highly modified" shows up a lot.

IMO the first hands on IRS experience the US Ford engineers are getting is with the new mustang and I'd bet they have tapped some of their off-shore Ford engineers for some help. Maybe even the Aussies who have a LOT of experience with IRS in powerful cars.

Recapping, Ford has very, very limited experience with IRS, two seat production sports cars. However, they have more experience in producing a rear mid sports car, but not much more because so much of it was farmed out and they only made 4,038 of them.
Longtimer is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Corvette ownership is like owning your own fountain of youth ... and we get a sip from it each time the signal turns green.
The Following User Says Thank You to Longtimer For This Useful Post:
ddregehr (01-23-2015)
Old 01-23-2015, 07:38 PM   #66
sixpeedreams
DC Crew
 
sixpeedreams's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,039
Member #17449
Member since: Sep 2004
Location: Milwaukee USA

My Corvette(s)
'80, '95, and '13 Z28's/SS's -- poor man's Corvettes

Thanks: 8
Thanked 25 Times in 21 Posts
The front-engine Vette isn't quite tapped out yet IMO. It would benefit from a real transaxle allowing the rear wheels to be moved forward maybe 6 inches. This would give it a rear weight bias and boost braking and grip off the line. If GM is willing to spend on a transaxle for the Zora hopefully they will use it in a new front-engine Corvette as well. I personally think that an optimized front-engine Vette would stay VERY close in performance to any mid-engine Zora with similar hp and level of track-focus.
sixpeedreams is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2015, 10:02 PM   #67
Longtimer
DC Pit Crew Boss
 
Longtimer's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,024
Member #3668
Member since: Nov 2003
Location: So Cal

My Corvette(s)
'07 Z51 6Mn NCM delivery, '79 L82 4 sp gymk - Gone '87 Z52 4+3, 76 L-82 4 spd

Thanks: 523
Thanked 504 Times in 363 Posts
We could get into a physics discussion that is probably well over both of our heads but the bottom lines are:
  1. Zora extensively tested and experimented with the CERV1 and the Cerv2 and was convinced that the best possible front mid cannot match the rear mid in track handling. This is the same Zora that covertly helped Porsche fix the handling of their odd behind the axle engine.
  2. This is the one that counts: The GM engineers disagree with you. They are the ones who have refined and developed front mids for more than 50 years (I'm starting with the C2 which was mostly a clean sheet chassis design that Zora developed because the bosses wouldn't give him a Rear Mid budget).
BTW there's only 9 inches between the C6 fenderwell and the start of the rear fascia. 3 inches is not a lot of room to fit the rest of the stuff that must be there after moving an axle 6 inches rearward. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, just that GM already knows if it would work or not and they know the performance level of it ... and they know the performance level of the rear mid.
Longtimer is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Corvette ownership is like owning your own fountain of youth ... and we get a sip from it each time the signal turns green.
Old 01-25-2015, 01:49 PM   #68
spd98
DC Crew
 
spd98's Avatar
 
Posts: 675
Member #4658
Member since: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Thanks: 10
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixpeedreams View Post
The front-engine Vette isn't quite tapped out yet IMO. It would benefit from a real transaxle allowing the rear wheels to be moved forward maybe 6 inches. This would give it a rear weight bias and boost braking and grip off the line. If GM is willing to spend on a transaxle for the Zora hopefully they will use it in a new front-engine Corvette as well. I personally think that an optimized front-engine Vette would stay VERY close in performance to any mid-engine Zora with similar hp and level of track-focus.
Hanging the trans-axle behind the wheels will not help, neither will shortening the wheelbase.

I'm still waiting on all of these rear mid cars to actually outperform the existing Corvette.
spd98 is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2015, 05:35 PM   #69
spd98
DC Crew
 
spd98's Avatar
 
Posts: 675
Member #4658
Member since: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Thanks: 10
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Winning in NASCAR is irrelevant the chassis are all the same. Ford hasn't had a real GT competitor in decades. The last GT was a cool car but didn't really win races or put out great numbers on the track.
spd98 is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2015, 06:41 PM   #70
sixpeedreams
DC Crew
 
sixpeedreams's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,039
Member #17449
Member since: Sep 2004
Location: Milwaukee USA

My Corvette(s)
'80, '95, and '13 Z28's/SS's -- poor man's Corvettes

Thanks: 8
Thanked 25 Times in 21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longtimer View Post
...there's only 9 inches between the C6 fenderwell and the start of the rear fascia. 3 inches is not a lot of room to fit the rest of the stuff that must be there after moving an axle 6 inches rearward.
Its a different chassis but the C3 had about 2 inches between the door and rear wheel opening, so its possible. I'd guess the C7 is limited more by the expense of developing Corvette-specific manual and automatic transaxles than by a chassis redesign limitation.

The reason the C3 placed the driver and rear axle close is obvious, for weight distribution and performance, so I think it would help the C7. And I'd be sad to see GM give up on the front-engine layout before taking it to the highest possible level. Granted, its pretty close now.

I'm speaking as a long-time Corvette fan who has an emotional attachment to seeing the classic layout be its very best. Nothing against a mid-engine layout per se, except that its generally more expensive, less practical, not really classic Corvette, and only a little better performing. But it would look exotic and exclusive, I'll give you that.

As I said, my wish would be for Corvette to carry on as two models - a front-engine and a rear-engine. And for the same transaxle to be used in both. What's wrong with that?

Last edited by sixpeedreams; 01-26-2015 at 07:58 PM.
sixpeedreams is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2015, 04:15 AM   #71
87vette70TA
Account Disabled.
 
Posts: 6,799
Member #139306
Member since: Mar 2014
Location: Central Illinois

My Corvette(s)
1987 C4 Roadster

Thanks: 322
Thanked 266 Times in 244 Posts
3.5 -4.0 L V8 DOHC Means a Big loss of bottom end & midrange torque all are used to.
GM hasn't built Turbo charged production rocket ships in some time.
1987 Buick GNX GN.

Supercharged C7 ZO6 A dud street racing SRT VIPERS & HELLCATS.
LEFT IN THE DUST OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

SMALL CUBIC INC MID ENGINED V8. C8 Be a real street racing loser.
Fart can Honda Civics will race and maybe win.

What's needed now is 455ci- 480ci- 600 ci stroker engines.
87vette70TA is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2015, 04:18 AM   #72
87vette70TA
Account Disabled.
 
Posts: 6,799
Member #139306
Member since: Mar 2014
Location: Central Illinois

My Corvette(s)
1987 C4 Roadster

Thanks: 322
Thanked 266 Times in 244 Posts
Target 900-1200 HP.

GM Won't build a V12-V14-V16.

A shitbox 4.0 V8 won't make Hellcat HP 840-870 HP.
87vette70TA is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2015, 07:59 AM   #73
spd98
DC Crew
 
spd98's Avatar
 
Posts: 675
Member #4658
Member since: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Thanks: 10
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixpeedreams View Post
Its a different chassis but the C3 had about 2 inches between the door and rear wheel opening, so its possible. I'd guess the C7 is limited more by the expense of developing Corvette-specific manual and automatic transaxles than by a chassis redesign limitation.

The reason the C3 placed the driver and rear axle close is obvious, for weight distribution and performance, so I think it would help the C7. And I'd be sad to see GM give up on the front-engine layout before taking it to the highest possible level. Granted, its pretty close now.

I'm speaking as a long-time Corvette fan who has an emotional attachment to seeing the classic layout be its very best. Nothing against a mid-engine layout per se, except that its generally more expensive, less practical, not really classic Corvette, and only a little better performing. But it would look exotic and exclusive, I'll give you that.

As I said, my wish would be for Corvette to carry on as two models - a front-engine and a rear-engine. And for the same transaxle to be used in both. What's wrong with that?
The trans-axle is not necessary. Using C3 isn't a real reference point for performance of a future platform either. C7 already has better weight distribution and performance.

The only advantage a rear mid car will have is the amount of mass that is moved to the center of the car. It should theoretically rotate faster but there are still limits.
spd98 is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2015, 09:10 AM   #74
BLK 1
 
BLK 1's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,467
Member #66549
Member since: Nov 2007
Location: 75 in a 60

My Corvette(s)
17 Z51 13 427 04 6M vert 17 WRX

Thanks: 38
Thanked 177 Times in 146 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87vette70TA View Post
Supercharged C7 ZO6 A dud street racing SRT VIPERS & HELLCATS.
LEFT IN THE DUST OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
ZO6 with headers exhaust and a tune this time. Still lost.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMhGI9t0ZYg
BLK 1 is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2015, 10:51 AM   #75
87vette70TA
Account Disabled.
 
Posts: 6,799
Member #139306
Member since: Mar 2014
Location: Central Illinois

My Corvette(s)
1987 C4 Roadster

Thanks: 322
Thanked 266 Times in 244 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK 1 View Post
ZO6 with headers exhaust and a tune this time. Still lost.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMhGI9t0ZYg
Will watch BLK 1.
It does not matter to me if the C8 is mid engine or not..
Its out of my price reach I am sure.
Mid engine layout requires a real strong differential IRS like Ferrari. & Lambo uses.
Rear tires dont want to spin easy. No fuse in the driveline.
Ferrari uses a Limited slip Posi very similar to original Dana 60 Power Lock used in 1966-71 Mopar Hemi cars. Internet search will show you what I have found too.
Front engine layout still works.
Lower cost likely.
87vette70TA is offline   Reply w/quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (12 CHARACTERS MAXIMUM), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
City / State / Country?
Where you live
What kind of Corvette(s) do you own?
This field is not required.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:22 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003-2011, DigitalCorvettes.com - All Rights Reserved