[81SilverBullet]

Hi I want to remove my fuse box since I had a fuse terminal melt. I only see one bolt in the front with an eight millimeter head. I know there is more to remove to get the fuse box out. I do not what to pry andpull hard on things in there I don't need anymore problems. Does anyone have any advice or know where I can find instructions? My service manual doesn't cover fuse box removal, just troubleshooting and fuse location diagrams.

 

[zimmej51]

81SilverBullet I assume from your name you have an 81 model. I'll attach a couple of pics that may help. On the engine side of the firewall there will be a big connector with a 10mm (I think it was) captive bolt. Loosening the bolt will allow you to pull the engine side connector off of the fuse panel. The connector is actually 2 connectors (C100 and C115) that are fastened together. If it has never been off it will be a gooey mess. The factory sealed them in place using the GM wonder sealant (tar). Then under the dash you will find the 2 screws you mentioned on the upper right and lower left.

I recommend that you do not remove the fusebox unless absolutely necessary. It will be very difficult if the vehicle is fully assembled. I'm finishing up a complete resto-mod on my 81 and I had the vehicle totally stripped out. Even with no dash, no steering column, no seats, no nothing it is difficult to reinstall. You can check out my post here, it's the one called "Another LS3, T56 swap into 1981 C3".

To repair a damaged fuse terminal I suggest you identify the circuit involved, find out what caused the meltdown, then re-route the circuit around the fusebox abandoning the damaged terminal. Then use an inline fuse holder to restore the protection. That isn't always possible but I would study it pretty hard and determine if it is feasible.

I made up a pretty comprehensive reference to all circuits in the 81. I have all the circuit numbers, where they go, what connectors they go through, etc. It includes a spreadsheet identifying power sources and how power is distributed to the fuse box. I also have diagrams showing the power buses built into the back side of the fuse box. I would be glad to post any of this data if it will help you out.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

Here's the front side of the fusebox. You can see the 2 mounting holes on the upper right and lower left.

Here's the back side of the fusebox

This is connector C100 that plugs into the back side of the fuse box. It is joined with connector C115.

This is connector C115 that plugs into the other half of the fusebox. It is joined to C100.

This is the fusebox with all attached wiring that has been removed. I wouldn't do this unless you are completely disassembling the car.

 

[The Torch]

Good info. Thanks zimmej51

 

[zimmej51]

One correction, the captive bolt that holds the engine side of the firewall (or bulkhead) connector is 1/4x20, not 10mm. Sorry bout that...

 

[zimmej51]

Here are 2 attachments that might help, both are pdfs. One is a drawing that shows the position and description of the terminals in the bulkhead connector as viewed from the engine side. The number in front of each connector pin is the circuit#. It also shows the color code of the wire. The other attachment is a spreadsheet (in pdf format) that lists all the circuits by number used in the 81 Corvette. Each row gives a short description of the circuit, if it's a power source, the fuse label, fuse size and so on.

I drew these all up to help me keep track of all the circuit changes since I'll be using HDX gauges, Vintage Air, etc. You can ignore some of the comments and notes on these documents that apply to circuits repurposed or abandoned.

These are both drawn to fit on 11 x 17 paper, but you should be able to scale down the pdf to fit smaller paper.

I hope these are of some use to you and others on this forum. I have some more useful info that I'll post up tomorrow, right now it's past my bedtime!!

 

[81SilverBullet]

81SilverBullet I assume from your name you have an 81 model. I'll attach a couple of pics that may help. On the engine side of the firewall there will be a big connector with a 10mm (I think it was) captive bolt. Loosening the bolt will allow you to pull the engine side connector off of the fuse panel. The connector is actually 2 connectors (C100 and C115) that are fastened together. If it has never been off it will be a gooey mess. The factory sealed them in place using the GM wonder sealant (tar). Then under the dash you will find the 2 screws you mentioned on the upper right and lower left.

I recommend that you do not remove the fusebox unless absolutely necessary. It will be very difficult if the vehicle is fully assembled. I'm finishing up a complete resto-mod on my 81 and I had the vehicle totally stripped out. Even with no dash, no steering column, no seats, no nothing it is difficult to reinstall. You can check out my post here, it's the one called "Another LS3, T56 swap into 1981 C3".

To repair a damaged fuse terminal I suggest you identify the circuit involved, find out what caused the meltdown, then re-route the circuit around the fusebox abandoning the damaged terminal. Then use an inline fuse holder to restore the protection. That isn't always possible but I would study it pretty hard and determine if it is feasible.

I made up a pretty comprehensive reference to all circuits in the 81. I have all the circuit numbers, where they go, what connectors they go through, etc. It includes a spreadsheet identifying power sources and how power is distributed to the fuse box. I also have diagrams showing the power buses built into the back side of the fuse box. I would be glad to post any of this data if it will help you out.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

Here's the front side of the fusebox. You can see the 2 mounting holes on the upper right and lower left.
View attachment 103331

Here's the back side of the fusebox
View attachment 103332

This is connector C100 that plugs into the back side of the fuse box. It is joined with connector C115.
View attachment 103333

This is connector C115 that plugs into the other half of the fusebox. It is joined to C100.
View attachment 103334

This is the fusebox with all attached wiring that has been removed. I wouldn't do this unless you are completely disassembling the car.
View attachment 103335

Here are 2 attachments that might help, both are pdfs. One is a drawing that shows the position and description of the terminals in the bulkhead connector as viewed from the engine side. The number in front of each connector pin is the circuit#. It also shows the color code of the wire. The other attachment is a spreadsheet (in pdf format) that lists all the circuits by number used in the 81 Corvette. Each row gives a short description of the circuit, if it's a power source, the fuse label, fuse size and so on.

I drew these all up to help me keep track of all the circuit changes since I'll be using HDX gauges, Vintage Air, etc. You can ignore some of the comments and notes on these documents that apply to circuits repurposed or abandoned.

These are both drawn to fit on 11 x 17 paper, but you should be able to scale down the pdf to fit smaller paper.

I hope these are of some use to you and others on this forum. I have some more useful info that I'll post up tomorrow, right now it's past my bedtime!!

Thank you so much. That was a great and through answer to my question. I do appreciate your advice.

 

[zimmej51]

81SilverBullet here is the fusebox detail that I said I would post, got kind of busy with Christmas! The first page is from the service manual showing the power source for most of the vehicle circuits. The next 6 pages show the power distribution into the fuse box and the circuit numbers/color code of the outputs from the fuse box. Note that the blue lines with a white center show how certain fuse box terminals are bridged together. Likewise, the purple lines with a white center show how the various fuse box power tap cavities are powered. They may look a little busy at first, but if you stare at them for a while it will start to make sense!

I hope you and others on this forum find this information useful! As always, if you have any questions feel free to ping me and I'll do my best to answer. Good luck on your project, I'll be interested to hear how it's coming along!

 

[zimmej51]

Oh, one other thing that I never did completely figure out: In the lower left corner of the fuse box you will see what looks like a power tap cavity. It isn't. I suspect it is circuit 411 labeled "Diagnostic Check Connector" connected to the carb air/fuel solenoid and also the Diagnostic Link Connector (ALDL). If you have the 81 Service Manual you will find circuit 411 that connects to the carb air/fuel solenoid on page 8A-83 in the lower right corner of the page. The connection to the ALDL connector is on page 8A-82 at the bottom of the page. The only reason I mention this cavity is that I had most of the wiring removed when I discovered it so I never conclusively determined what it was there for! It's no big deal, just one of those curiosity things.

 

[Classic1275cc]

Oh, one other thing that I never did completely figure out: In the lower left corner of the fuse box you will see what looks like a power tap cavity. It isn't. I suspect it is circuit 411 labeled "Diagnostic Check Connector" connected to the carb air/fuel solenoid and also the Diagnostic Link Connector (ALDL). If you have the 81 Service Manual you will find circuit 411 that connects to the carb air/fuel solenoid on page 8A-83 in the lower right corner of the page. The connection to the ALDL connector is on page 8A-82 at the bottom of the page. The only reason I mention this cavity is that I had most of the wiring removed when I discovered it so I never conclusively determined what it was there for! It's no big deal, just one of those curiosity things.

Hi ZimmeJ51

You certainly seem like you are the most knowledgeable active user on these terminals across the internet I can not find them anywhere! and i need/want to replace the connectors on the engine bay side but they seem to be the rarest connectors in the world...

You call them C100 and C115 Connectors but I am not so sure, below is an alleged diagram of the C100, and as you can see the connections are different. I believe there may be multiple versions of the c100 connector with the version the corvette used seems to be the rarest, I believe this below is Mouser No 829-15492519 (Manufacturer 15492519)

You can see how this is different from the image of the connectors our cars have...

Furthermore, I have been looking on mouser and found more connectors similar to our corvette such as
Mouser No: 829-15492529 (Manafacture 15492529) but as you can see from the picture below it is different again (particularly on the left-hand side pug.

As you know quite a number of companies sell new looms with the correct connector on the end but will not sell them individually so they are obviously still available if I could locate where they come from even if I have to buy 100 of them because the rabbit chase to find these have been ridiculous I'm sure they are on Mouser somewhere just need to find the correct number

Can you help find the correct plug for the engine side and the headlight side so I can make my own loom along with the pins to re-pin it?

 

[zimmej51]

Hi Classic1275. Looks like you know your way around searching for the obscure electrical components on these 40+ year old cars! I went down many rabbit holes looking for components to this bulkhead connector. When I got the car apart the bulkhead connector looked terrible and I wanted to replace the 2 connectors (C100 and C115) that join and plug into the bulkhead connector. I spent many hours searching and consulting with several reliable sources, all to no avail. At one time I had the GM partnumbers for the connectors but I don't think they have been available for decades, if they ever were. So I got the old ones back out, soaked them in solvent and got enough of the tar out to remove the terminals, then was able to get them thoroughly cleaned out. At that point I was surprised to find they looked very good and were not broken or damaged. So I just reassembled them with new terminals and wire. I really don't think you will be able to find new shells unless you happen to stumble on some NOS or something. I'm pretty sure the reproduction people contracted with a supplier, probably in China, to produce a run of the shells for their own use in making reproduction wiring harnesses. I can't see a market big enough to tool up and produce a bunch of shells for an obsolete connector that uses the old Packard Series 56 and 59 terminals.

BTW the C100 and C115 designations are just the reference numbers in the schematics and Service Manual that identify the connector. All of the electrical system connectors are assigned a number in the Service Manual for identification purposes. Likewise, all circuits have an identification number assigned in the Service Manual for identification purposes. This information makes it way easier to track and identify circuits, especially if you are going to make serious modifications to the electrical system. On my project about the only circuits that I didn't modify were the lighting circuits outside of the cabin. Almost everything inside the cabin is new/modified.

If your connector shells are unusable for some reason, I would first try the salvage yard route. Because of where they are positioned in the C3, they are seldom taken on and off during the life of the car. Unless they are crash damaged, the shells should be usable. I've never checked but I wouldn't be surprised if other GM car lines from that era used the same connector shells. You won't need the old wires if you are making new ones so you might get a price break from someone that has a damaged harness. Plan "B" would be to replace the entire fuse panel and bulkhead connector with a modern modular setup like Mfinity or (my preference) the Delphi "Traditional Electrical Centers" found in many modern cars. That would be complicated and expensive, but it is an option. Personally, I recommend trying to reuse the original type connector shells for the bulkhead. The Packard 56 and 59 terminals are old school but they are also very reliable.

I'll throw out a few thoughts on the subject that may or may not be useful.

Crimping Packard Terminals: The Series 56, Series 59 and Series 3 terminals can be a PITA to crimp unless you have the specific tool. I had more trouble with the smaller gauge wires than the larger ones. I used one of those crimper sets that have the handle and about 5 different jaw sets. A lot of places sell them with their name on them but they are all the same item. You can usually make it work by using a combination of the jaws for the wire crimp and the insulator crimp, but it can be frustrating. If you go this route, buy extra terminals because you will ruin a few learning how to make the crimper work. The purpose designed crimpers would be best, but you will have to get an assortment of them and they are PRICEY.

Terminal Identification: Most all connectors in these later model C3's are Packard Series 56, Series 59, Series 3 (mostly interior) and Weatherpack (under hood). I'll attach a couple of pages from a book of notes I have put together over the years. It also shows the Aptive (Delphi) GT series of connectors. The stock C3 doesn't use them, but I swapped in the LS3 with the GMPP ECM that does. All of the terminals are pretty easy to find, I did list the part number and source that I used.

New Terminals and Connectors: If you find you need to replace both ends of an old connector, and you aren't doing a stock rebuild, I recommend the Deutsch connectors and crimper. The crimper is around $275, but you only need one. The terminals and shells are available in a huge variety of sizes and use the miniature, standard, and heavy terminal pins/sockets. The crimping success rate with them is 100%. The connectors can be assembled/disassembled for routing through holes. Once you use these, you will never go back. If interested, search for the Deutsch Connector Store.

Bulkhead and Connector Pin Identification: Once you get a set of C100 and C115 connector shells cleaned up, you will notice that the terminal "holes" are identified by a grid of letters inside the shells. This can make your documentation of what goes where much easier. I have attached a pdf that shows the grid of letters.

Bulkhead Wire Identification: In one of my previous posts I attached a drawing of the circuit numbers and wire colors on the bulkhead connector. It had a bunch of notes and things that I used in my modifications but could have been a bit confusing. I removed all the changes from the drawing and am reposting here. Each terminal is identified by circuit number, wire color, and what it connects to.

Wire: The original wiring is PVC insulated. When replacing wire, I highly recommend using GSL or XSL cross linked insulated wire. That is what is used in most modern cars. It is much easier to work with and the insulation is light years better than PVC. But be careful: Only buy from vendors that sell US made wire that is 100% copper. I use Wire Barn but there are several others. Look closely at the wire you get at the auto stores. The majority is PVC insulation and will have the tiny letters CCA somewhere on the package. That means it's copper clad aluminum. You DO NOT want that stuff.

Wire Colors with a Stripe: Many wires will have a color stripe painted on the insulation, like Red with a White stripe. This is easy to duplicate with a method I stole from 70TRoadster in this forum. Get some enamel paint filled Magic Markers. I didn't know they made such a thing, but you can get them from Office Depot or equivalent. Say you need a white stripe on some red wire. Clip off how much wire you need and clamp one end in a vise or something. Shake up the white enamel marker, place the fiber tip edgewise on the wire, hold the wire taught and mark the line on it. It will dry very quickly. With a little practice you can make the stripe look factory, and it's pretty rugged especially on GSL or XSL insulation.

I'll shut up for a while, if you have any questions or problems feel free to ping me. I'll do my best to help!

 

[zimmej51]

Just noticed I dumb-thumbed the wire types. They should be GXL and SXL, not GSL and XSL. Sorry bout that.

 

[Classic1275cc]

Just noticed I dumb-thumbed the wire types. They should be GXL and SXL, not GSL and XSL. Sorry bout that.

Hi Zimmej51
appreciate your in-depth reply

Connectors
I agree it appears getting hold of original new connectors is now impossible and current harness manufactures must have had them custom made. I have a technical query with mouser ongoing but sounds like you have been there done that and they will not come up with the goods. My connectors are good and I have already had a first pass at cleaning them so I will re-use. I just thought when I set off on this mission they would be easy to get, guess not!

Terminals
I am in England and the terminals are pretty much unavailable to me. The only males I can get my hands on are 56 series 16-14guage from rockauto/summit (their international shipping is excellent and pain-free) no places stock or have even heard of the 56 and 59 series. So that is another hurdle to overcome. I did my research on the 56 and 59 series on a US companies website called Terminal Supply Co. They list all the 56 and 59 males here and here. I was going to get a bunch of each since they don't cost much and all my bases would be covered BUT when I asked for a quote they said they would not ship to England. Typical. So right now I'm stuck for a variety of terminals, just have access to the 56 16-14guage.

Changing from OEM
I hear you about going with modern solutions. but I wasn't wanting to go down that road, just remake the headlight and engine harness in more or less stock form is good for me. I will relay some power-hungry items for safety such as headlights and radiator fan for example. I wasnt inteding to go behind the dash to fiddle, however the interior lights dont work but thats a small job for down the road.

Crimping
I have a variety of crimping tools for specialist stuff I got from an royal air force sale, I may already have something to crimp. have you any pictures/info on the crimper for the 56 and 59 series?

Type of wire / Insulation Types
I have been researching wire types and insulation. I have contacted an industry suppler who lists the main standards (Japan, German, USA, British) and within those standards lists all the types of insulation and stranding so I am covered there, although they have not got back to me yet.
I think largely I will be using 2mm 25amp wire (i know you guys use guage but roughly I think that is 14 guage) apart from the power-hungry things I will use higher amp wire.

Wire Colour / Tracer
No this is another thing I thought would be easy but is not. wire colour is very hard to find. light brown (tan) is non-exsistant, so is dark green, dark blue that will take some hunting. I had not thought about marking my own wire providing I can get the correct base colour. I also can heat shrink the correct colour onto each end but that wouldn't be very good look would it

Identifying What Wire Goes where
I have the colour 1981 wiring diagram which i have attched its pretty straitforward to my average joe eye and i understand most of it, at least the parts i want to do anyway. Thanks for the charts they will be handy

 

[zimmej51]

Hi Classic1275cc, I didn't notice that you were in England! I imagine it is quite a challenge to find parts for these old Corvettes! What year is your car? You may have mentioned it and I missed it. I'll post a couple of pics of the terminal crimper I used. I've seen this same crimper set sold by a variety of vendors. You can usually find some combination of jaws that will allow you to successfully crimp new terminals, but it can be a bit frustrating and you can count on ruining a few terminals. Hopefully some of the crimpers you have will work on the terminals. I don't have any crimpers that are purpose made for the Packard connectors, I'm sure that they would make the project a lot easier but would require some serious expense.

Regarding wire color, I had the same issue with the light and dark colors like blue, green, brown, etc. I used blue for dark blue and blue with white stripe for light blue and so on. It makes the job easier to stay as close to the factory colors as you can. It pays off when connecting everything and troubleshooting.

Here is a picture of the crimper set I use. With a little experimentation you can usually find some combination of jaws that work. Most of the time I wound up making the crimp in 2 steps: One for the wire and one for the insulation crimp. Once in a while I was able to make both crimps at the same time. The female terminals are slightly more difficult because it is easy to accidentally deform the terminal to the point it won't fit in the shell.






Since I mentioned the Deutsch connectors here are a couple of pics. First is the crimper tool. It will crimp the male and female terminals in the 3 most used sizes.






Here are the 3 sizes of terminals used. There is a wide selection of shells available in multiple pin configurations. The smallest is the DTM series for 1.0 to 0.5mm wire (16 to 22 AWG). The middle size is the DT series for 2.0 to 0.5mm wire (14 to 20 AWG). The large size is the DTP series for 5.0 to 2.0mm wire (10 TO 14 AWG). I didn't have an example of the DTP shell, guess I used all I had! Like I said, these connectors are far superior to anything I've ever used. They won't help for the bulkhead connector issue but if you need to replace a broken/defective in line connector these are the way to go, hands down.




And on the subject of wire, I attached a document I made up that has some information that may or may not be useful. The tab that lists all of the electrical loads on the 81 Corvette is mostly made up of actual measurements that I took. A few of them were calculated. Most have a bit of a "fudge factor" included for a safety factor. It can be useful when determining power distribution.

Let me know if you hit a dead end on finding the terminals.

 

[Classic1275cc]

Hello Again
More very useful info thanks a bunch, I imagine in the future some poor guy trying to do wiring is going to stumble across this thread like a miner finding his first gold nugget!

Getting parts in England is super easy you just gotta pay for them! Between Rock Auto, Summit, ZIP, and ecklers theres not much you cant get shipped over. large things like gas tanks, body panels would be a bit more difficult but there's a few trusted people in the classic American car game here that bring containers over monthly and people like them will bring big stuff over. The best thing about here is American cars here are very rare so when any male sees a corvette with side pipes their jaws hit the floor and you are definitely the coolest guy around.

I had an email from Mouser since the last post and they confirmed their technical team could not locate the connector, hopefully in their next email to me they will tell me if they can supply all variations of the 56 and 59 series but right now I can only see the 56 16-14 gauge that they list. Ill let you know what they say

In the meantime next week, we have a two-post lift to instal that will help me take the body off, its 1981 model. I need to replace and probably weld the body mount mounts, clean the gas tank, replace all lines and redo/get new trailing arms. before I decided to go the body off route I have already restored the front end with the body still on. but you know how it goes one thing leads to another. it only started with an engine that leaked a bit of oil, next thing I know I'm doing a fall restoration and in financial ruin lol. There is an Instagram for the car under white.stingray if you have that and want to see

 

[zimmej51]

Man, I can only imagine how many heads will turn when you get this car done! And I'm VERY familiar with one thing leading to another. I once posted a picture of my 81 before I started and called it a "bankruptcy starter kit"!

I don't know if you have seen my thread called "Another LS3 - T56 Swap into 1981 C3" but it has several things you might find of interest. I highly recommend removing the body if you have means to do so. Cars this old need lots of love and it is light years easier to do when you can get to everything.

Since you mentioned lifting the body, here I go again with a few suggestions! First, several places sell straps with a "hook" on the end of the strap. There are 4 straps. I'll get straight to the point: I do not like the straps AT ALL. They would probably be ok for just a quick lift to take care of something but they are not suitable (my opinion) for any kind of restoration. Here's what the straps looked like in action. The body sways uncomfortably if you try to do much work on it.



So, I fabricated 4 lift "buttons" that would fit each of the lift arms. The "blades" will fit between the frame and the rocker panel. Here's what they looked like before I welded them together. While I was turning the "buttons" I went ahead and made 4 extra in case I have need for them in the future.



Here's what they looked like after welding and paint. The "button" was designed to fit into the hole on each of the lift arms.



And, here they are in action.



The bottom view.



These are FAR superior to the straps and are a necessity (again, my opinion) for a thorough and safe restoration or service. They are not difficult at all to make if you have access to a lathe and a shear. If you don't, they are pretty simple and can be made at your friendly local machine shop. I doubt the cost would be prohibitive. I have drawings of the lift adapters to share, you would just have to make sure the diameter of the buttons is sized to fit your lift. Meanwhile, here are a few things good to know.

Be sure EVERYTHING is disconnected before lifting the body. Take your time and talk a friend into helping look for that missed cable or something. If the body hasn't been off recently they will usually try to stick a bit at the body mounts. But don't force anything.

Regardless of the body lifting method, it is highly recommended that you support the "nose" of the body by some method. If you search this forum and other places you will find a variety of methods to do this. Since I was going for a total rebuild, I went ahead and removed the headlight assemblies and just about everything I could remove from the front nose and fenders. This made the nose light enough that support was not necessary.

There are 4 body mounts along each side for a total of 8. There is a ninth mount right at the nose of the car that bolts down to the "crash bar". Don't forget that one! And when you start looking for the replacement of that front mount you will have a little trouble finding it. Fear not though, it is identical to a C2 body mount.

Avoid excess lifting or pushing the ends of the body while it is on the lift. It's just sitting there, not secured. I didn't find that to be a problem, but stop and think before crawling inside the cabin. If you go all the way to the back the body will endo. Again, not a problem, just remember the body without the frame isn't really all that heavy.

NEVER attempt to lift the car using the body adapters with the frame attached. You will seriously damage the body.

The body is a tight fit clearance wise to the frame. It's easy to snag something when setting the body back down on the frame. Here's a tip. On the driver's side (US drivers) rocker panel, a little ways back from the door hinges, you will see a hole in the rocker panel that goes straight down. You may have to remove the plastic cap plugs if they are present. Likewise, on the passenger side rocker panel, near the rear you will see a hole that goes down through the frame.

Get 2 metal rods about 12" (305mm) long and a diameter of 7/16" (0.4375") (11.1mm). When it comes time to remount the body, drop one of the rods in the hole near the front of the driver side rocker panel, and the other rod in the hole near the rear of the passenger side rocker panel. Use a clamp or something on top of the rod so that they will not fall all the way through the rocker panel. When you lower the body, the rods that are hanging out of the rocker panels should be aligned with the corresponding holes in the frame. No guesswork. That's how the factory did it. Once the body is placed to your satisfaction pull the rods out and that's that.

Hope I didn't swamp you with too much information again!

 

[Classic1275cc]

Hello Again

Well, theoretically when we get the lift installed I should be following the same steps as you. i already have the engine out and side pipes off. put dyes down 2 of the body mount threads so they should come out fine, the captive ones will be a problem i am sure.

Interesting adapters you have made. we have a lathe too so I'm sure we can re-create that. I did however like the idea of planning a piece of wood to go in that long slot then it would be supported across the entire length. Like you i did not like the look of the strap either they are for sale here in UK too

What is intriguing me more is your talk of a 5th mount upfront at the nose, I know there are body fixings upfront to disconnect but until now I thought you had to remove the front bumper to lift the body off is that correct? or can you lift the body off with the front bumper left on I can not tell from those pictures. it's better to talk to a guy like you who has done it than the stories you find on the internet.
I had a few ideas for body re-alinement and one was to attach 4 plumb lines at each corner of the frame prior to lifting and marking the floor. so when it's time to bring the frame back in if I line the plumbs up with the floor marks the frame should be fairly close to its original position and the body will go straight back on having not moved off the lift.

More info the better it nicer going at the big jobs knowing there is somebody to talk to! The information out there is good but it's not the same as knowing somebody that done it, and done it right, not in a front driveway and beer kinda way. I watched a video of two guys lift the body off from the side with a forklift with straps on a drive way, gave me shivers

 

[Classic1275cc]

.... I see it

 

[Classic1275cc]

I had a sit down on the engine bay cross member and had my first good long look and inspection of how the front nose would come away from the frame as well as watching a few YouTube videos on my phone (mostly this one -

) and now I think understand it better

So Zimmej51 Am I correct in thinking I need to undo these bolts on either side...

and insure they are not rusted together so maybe hammmer <1mm shim between them to ensure they are free to come away from each other and that is all that is required to be done to ensure the nose comes away freely from the frame?
No need to removed the front bumper or anything like that? (Remember im just talking about forward of the front cross member here at the moment) Is it really as simple as these 3 or 4 bolts on either side?

Thanks all!

 

[zimmej51]

.... I see it
View attachment 103660

.... I see it
View attachment 103660

Yup, that's the one. BTW try to keep track of the spacers or shims, if any. They will be all dirty and cruddy but makes a good starting point for the new shims. I've never really had much trouble aligning the body mounts, but I've heard some horror stories, usually involving cars that have been crashed and improperly repaired.

 

[zimmej51]

I had a sit down on the engine bay cross member and had my first good long look and inspection of how the front nose would come away from the frame as well as watching a few YouTube videos on my phone (mostly this one -

) and now I think understand it better

So Zimmej51 Am I correct in thinking I need to undo these bolts on either side...
View attachment 103661
and insure they are not rusted together so maybe hammmer <1mm shim between them to ensure they are free to come away from each other and that is all that is required to be done to ensure the nose comes away freely from the frame?
No need to removed the front bumper or anything like that? (Remember im just talking about forward of the front cross member here at the moment) Is it really as simple as these 3 or 4 bolts on either side?

Thanks all!

Thanks for the kind words! I'm delighted that at least some of this info is useful for you! Feel free to ask questions, I do my best to provide accurate answers. If I don't know something I'll tell you!

Well, to be honest, I had a time with reassembling the front bumper/crash bar/headlights, etc. It's pretty crowded up front, things are heavy, and it's always very easy to damage the new paint on the body and bumper cover. Accordingly, I chose to reassemble the front one piece at a time. I don't think this is a good place for shortcuts. That seemed to be the safest way and it made it a lot easier to rectify problems as they arose. While I'm certain there is more than one way to approach this, I recommend disassembling the front bumper area one component at a time, then reverse the sequence for reassembly. I think you will find this to be a lot easier in the long run. Start with the air dams and work your way up. There are a surprising number of components! Finally you get to the bumper cover that is held on mostly by a series of SEM nuts around the perimeter and a couple of bolts around the bottom. Next remove the honeycomb "bumper". Finally, you will be able to see the "crash bar" and where that front body mount is. Of those 4 bolts in your picture, 2 hold the fiberglass bumper supports and 2 hold the crash bar.

I'm not sure how far you plan to go with disassembly, but at this point the body can be lifted without removing the crash bar. And that brings me to the biggest problem I had - the alignment of the crash bar. Specifically, the height of the pad where the front body mount sits. I failed to measure it relative to some other surface before taking it off. The assembly manual specifies a dimension relative to the body mount "plane" but I was unable to duplicate the dimensions in the assembly manual. I believe that the dimension specified must be relative to some reference surface on the assembly jig. In any case, I used trial and error and was able to get it set up where everything fits correctly. Would have been a lot easier if I had just recorded a dimension.

Here's a couple of pics to give you an idea of what it all looks like when you get down to the crash bar. Didn't mention it, but reassembling it this way allows good access to all the headlight components.

When you get to the part where you are installing the bumper cover, ask me about those SEM nuts that hold the cover on.