[Kaos]

We have installed the Dragvette 6 Link kit about a month ago. The installation went smoothly and I like it a lot as I am 99% positive it has fixed my wheel hop issue and a few other items. Also when test fitting my new wheels last night I checked the camber and it was still set at perfectly 90* after probably 1,000 miles of hard driving. But I do have some observations and questions....

When the car is in the air I can rotate easily by hand both the upper and lower links throughout the entire range of trailing arm travel.

When put the car back on the ground the lower link is INSTANTLY about 50% stiffer while the upper link still moves freely with no noticeable resistance. I can still turn the lower link by hand...but it takes considerablly more effort.

After driving around say 500+ miles the lower link has stiffened to the point where I can't rotate it by hand anymore but with vice grips gripping lightly I can rotate it again. The upper link is still just like it was...unchanged and rotate freely by hand.

So now we are at where the bottom link is stiff and upper link moves freely. I test fitted my new wheels last night and checked the camber at its still perfectly at 90*. Again...car up in the air the bottom link now moves freely again...but as soon as I put the car on the ground it was about 50% stiffer again.

I spoke with Steve at Dragvette who has been extremely helpful and said that this is okay with what I am observing and that it is most likely the lower link is really doing a lot of work keeping everything aligned properly resulting in it being too stiff to move by hand. Don't know if this makes a difference but car has been aligned with toe at 0* and had a recent differential rebuild that is still very tight and C-clips are perfect.

I hope to take her out to Moroso tonight to see how she hooks and if I still have wheel hop. Funny thing is that I only have wheel hop under 2 different conditions. When the streets are wet and only at the track. I tested on some wet streets the other day and did not have any wheel hop for the first time ever so I am hoping for no wheel hop at the track tonight.

So what are your experiences with your 6 link systems?

 

[yellow73sb]

I don't think your supposed to use c-clips

 

[Kaos]

According to Steve at Dragvette he says to leave them installed. You can do it also with the C-clips but then there are other issues that I don't recall and it was simplest to leave them installed.

 

[TwinTurbo]

You can only leave the c clips in if the geometry on the 6 link is in perfect harmony with the halfshaft and the lower control rod (part of the 6 link), if not you get what you describe. It's simply impossible to sell a kit that is a perfect bolt on, the tolerances between cars are too large to be able to leave the clip in there. It's either making adjustments to the system (you have to know what you're doing and why) or pull the clip (or use telescopic shafts). Do a search for 6 link here, there's a topic riddled with cad drawings and explanations. It will illustrate the problem you are having.

 

[Kaos]

Thanks TT....I will re-read the posts again. I have spent the better part of the day reading your posts and others on the other forum but somehow maybe missed something over there or maybe it was not discussed as I did come across a thread with lots of diagrams all detailed nicely and maybe that was it?

So in summary you are saying that I don't have my lower link exactly the same length as my half shaft and that I need to re-measure my half shafts adjusting my lower rod to that length?

 

[yellow73sb]

edit nvm

 

[84rzv500r]

You can only leave the c clips in if the geometry on the 6 link is in perfect harmony with the halfshaft and the lower control rod (part of the 6 link), if not you get what you describe. It's simply impossible to sell a kit that is a perfect bolt on, the tolerances between cars are too large to be able to leave the clip in there. It's either making adjustments to the system (you have to know what you're doing and why) or pull the clip (or use telescopic shafts). Do a search for 6 link here, there's a topic riddled with cad drawings and explanations. It will illustrate the problem you are having.

:agree:

I have over a 1000 trouble free miles on my home made 6 link setup...

:thumbsup:

 

[Kaos]

keep the suggestions and tips coming...we will get my $hit figured out here soon enough with your help. If I understand correctly the C-clips are designed to keep the side yokes from moving outwards? and now since I have the 6 liink installed this should control the side-to-side movement of the trailing arms resulting in controling the side to side movement of the half shafts and therefore I do not need c-clips? correct? on my thinking?

Will I run into any other issues if I remove the c-clips such as alignment, etc.

I have studied those awesome CAD drawings and totally understand about the geometry and stuff but for some reason I can't compute what is changing after a few 100 miles that would cause it to bind on the lower rod when car is on the ground but as soon as I get the car off the ground it is good again until I put at least 100+ miles on it.

Now since my car is not stock...and I am not looking forward to droping the diff cross member again....I am 99% certain that I am going to go through the top of the rear storage area drilling two nice holes and later fitting the holes to a nice hard & thick rubberized plug/cap of some sort. Should be much much easier.

 

[TwinTurbo]

the c clip locks the stub axle in the housing, this way the halfshaft can be used for upper camber geometry control, without the clip it would work on bump/compression but on pull/jounce the stub axle will pull out of the case. With a 6 link the upper rod now does what the halfshaft used to do, the c clip is not needed. But...make sure that the kit is designed to have the c clip removed, maybe the upper link is not strong enough (I remember seeing pics of the dragvette kit, one thing was the upper rods were kind of thin and the rod ends seemed small and the bolts were all in single shear, you want at least 5/8 rod ends., maybe that IS what they used???)

I would dril for a small access panel or hole too, makes working on the rear so muche asier, just drop the diff a little, grab in there with your lock pliers and pull them out. After that adjust BOTH rods a little to make them longer, this is so that you pull the stub axle out a tiny bit so it win't bind on the center pin on bind. You could also grind the end off the stubs but adjusting it out is easier.

 

[mrvette]

TT is right on, as usual....

but having said that.....just a quick description of what a 6 link actually IS....

I count just 4 links, upper strut, lower strut, (shafts no longer count) and if the C4 style is used in place of the t-arm....I get to 8 links....I assume thats correct, and have a toe adjustment arm per side?? making 10..?? where is the term 6 links in there??

:crazy:

 

[84rzv500r]

TT is right on, as usual....

but having said that.....just a quick description of what a 6 link actually IS....

I count just 4 links, upper strut, lower strut, (shafts no longer count) and if the C4 style is used in place of the t-arm....I get to 8 links....I assume thats correct, and have a toe adjustment arm per side?? making 10..?? where is the term 6 links in there??

:crazy:

2 trailing arms
2 upper strut rods
2 lower strut rods

2+2+2=6

 

[Kaos]

Well....I was tackling a bunch of other issues today and decided to yank on these darn upper/lower 6 link rods. To my surprise when I did on an upper rod the whole thing wiggled from the mounting point on the diff!!! Have no idea how the mounting bolt worked its way loose but it is very hard to tell its loose and unless you are yanking on the bar it does not feel loose as rotating the rod does not produce the wiggle in the diff mount. I got my holes pre-drilled from the inside storage area to drop down the diff next weekend and my new beefier spicer half shafts should be here this week. I will be pulling the C-clips while the diff is down hoping this is a solution to the bottom shafts binding. The other side was good with nothing loose (Thank God!!).

 

[Strider]

. After that adjust BOTH rods a little to make them longer, this is so that you pull the stub axle out a tiny bit so it win't bind on the center pin on bind. You could also grind the end off the stubs but adjusting it out is easier.

You have to do this. If not the stubs will bind big time.
I ground mine back right to the groove.
If you want to test for bind remove the spring, doesn't take long, remove the tires and shocks and manually move each corner up and down through it's full range of travel. This will tell if anything is binding up.

If you make the strut rods a little longer to relieve the pin in the differential you will have to set the toe again with shims in the trailing arms.

 

[mrvette]

2 trailing arms
2 upper strut rods
2 lower strut rods

2+2+2=6

OK, but leaving in the t arms means a toe change with suspension travel, that much I understand....

and I see the 4 links in the rear, fine....but just what does the additio of the two extra upper links bring to the table that the job can't be handled by the 1/2 shaft/stock setup?? seems to me all it does is add weight....

for that matter, I see it as maybe the two links/side forward to the frame, ala C4 as being a better addition, really, and having a strut for toe...

what am I missing??

:crazy: :WTF :cheers:

 

[84rzv500r]

I'll speculate that there are 3 improvements over stock with the 6 link in no particular order.

o Suspension compliance

o Camber

o Total Load on the half shaft

I think the C4 setup is an improvement over the C3.

The NET effect on my setup was to reduce sprung & unsprung weight, improve track, tire contact patch, and chassis stiffness.

In order of perceived improvement 1=best, notice where I place the 6 link.
1 full roll cage (unbelievable)
2 BBC/ROD 6 Speed (no repalcement for displacement, real or otherwise)
3 steeroids/hydraboost (modern steering)
4 wheels and tires (good tires brake soooooo much better that every day tires)
5 Wilwood Calipers (VERY Noticeable improvement in ride quality and braking)
6 550 coils, Guldstrand 7 leaf, shocks
7 6 link for suspension compliance
8 strut tower brace (noticeable on turn in and bumpy roads)

It's all about managing constraints and compromising to get what you want. I see the 6 link as a good way to achive my performance goals.

 

[yellow73sb]

(no repalcement for displacement, real or otherwise)

850 hp says differently

 

[Kaos]

I have my holes drilled out from the storage area to drop the diff without having to drop the cross member. It will make this job a lot easier. I need to drop the diff to fix the loose upper Dragvette rod mount to the diff as I can't access the hex nut without dropping it down a little further. Have no idea how this one side worked its way loose but I plan on this time around replacing half shafts, tighten upper rod mount, re-align camber....and then go and beat the hell out of her seeing what happens. I got new wheels/tires that are dying to be installed so as soon as I get the suspension setup correctly I can't wait to install them but burning the crap off the rubber on the old ones will be a blast.

 

[84rzv500r]

Nice motor!! What did you pay for it? :thumbsup:

 

[yellow73sb]

Nice motor!! What did you pay for it? :thumbsup:

It was free. I found it on Al Gores internet.

 

[Kaos]

I literally tonight yanked out everything starting with the driveshaft backwards. The only thing left are the trailing arms and wheels!!! I got the spring, half shafts, diff, 6 link, etc. all out. It was not really all that hard....just a major pain in the ass. I took my time and all went good. I found the problem and would like to contact Dragvette first before posting what I found giving them a chance to answer and then correct the problem, etc. Of course I will post either late Thursday or Friday after I get things squared away with Dragvette on what exactly transpired as I don't want this to turn into a feeding frenzy on some guys product without having all the facts first.

Thanks again for the awesome advice and your patience while I get this sorted out with Dragvette over the next couple of days.

Cheers....Rob