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Ok my 99 will light up but will not start. I've put a new egnition switch and cylinder and new control module. Ran for one day. So $1100 later I'm a little upset. Any suggestions??
99 won't start
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Well first welcome to DC. I would take some of that frustration out on the shop that did the work. See if they will stand behind their work. Then go from there.
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I plan on that. I will be calling the general manager in the morning. But in the meantime I thought I'd do some digging on my own. 😊 You see....I'm not dumb when it comes to my car. So there's that 😊
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Was not implying anything. Start at the shop could be something related to the repair could be something totally different. Could be something simple as a loose wire on the starter or the starter may have went south. I’m sad to say I don’t have the car in front of me so all I can do is guess. Sorry I could not be more help.
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Does the car crank and not start or the car does not crank when you turn the key?
If the car does not crank and you have changed the ignition lock cylinder and the car still exhibits anti theft issues or has problems recognizing the pellet in your key there might be a problem with the pellet on your key. You can try cleaning the contact points with some alcohol or other solvent. Also the BCM or Body Control Module mounts on the passenger side toe board right on the floor. As soon as the floors get wet in these C5 cars so does the BCM and they have a pretty good failure rate. The angel hair wires that are attached to the ignition lock cylinder and read that pellet are connected to the BCM and that is what reads the key and tells the PCM it can let the motor start. When the BCM fails you can quickly get the no start condition.
But also as Triple dizzle said starter failures are also very common. The backside of the starter solenoid loves to break away or get hot and burn the wires. Also behind the starter is the crankshaft position sensor(CKP) and this 3 wire sensor is critical for the controller to understand when to fire the fuel injectors and ignition coils. When these wires get hot and brittle and degrade we get the crank but no start condition. But to be fair and clear on the subject there is a plethora of things that can bring you to a crank and no start condition.
If you have a crank and no start condition and there is no security light on the dash you can check your fuel supply by pushing in the shrader valve on your fuel rail. If no fuel squirts out then you might have a problem with your fuel pump. Even if there is an anti theft concern present the controller should still prime the rail. It just won't fire the injectors.
I mean we can argue that a motor only needs 3 things to run. Fuel, spark, and compression. The compression we can verify by ear just listening to a healthy battery crank an engine. Or with an amp probe on the main battery cable attached to a lab scope. And if we attach a second channel of that lab scope to a specific cylinder's ignition coil we can actually run a full relative compression test and pinpoint the weak cylinder(s) without a single tool just by counting the humps of the amp spikes from each cylinder building compression and creating drag on the starter motor.
We can easily check for the presence of spark or fuel delivery but to be missing either on a fuel injected engine this side of 1996 capable of storing literally thousands of trouble codes and with a network of modules communicating with each other on 2 different networks we really need powerful and potent diagnostic equipment to accurately put our fingers on the cause of these symptoms we might verify. For reference this is still my go to diagnostic tool: Snap - On's Latest and Greatest | Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums
The purchase price of the above tool was over 10k. The updates for the tool are 1200 twice a year. The Shopkey Pro database it gets linked to is just under $200/mo. Any mechanic, technician, or diagnostician is only as good as the parts they install and the resources they have available to them. But it sure is fun to think we do it on willpower alone. What scantool is the shop you take your car to using? What shop database are they using? Identifix and a generic scanner might be a good telltale that you need to find a better shop with more capable resources.
If the car does not crank and you have changed the ignition lock cylinder and the car still exhibits anti theft issues or has problems recognizing the pellet in your key there might be a problem with the pellet on your key. You can try cleaning the contact points with some alcohol or other solvent. Also the BCM or Body Control Module mounts on the passenger side toe board right on the floor. As soon as the floors get wet in these C5 cars so does the BCM and they have a pretty good failure rate. The angel hair wires that are attached to the ignition lock cylinder and read that pellet are connected to the BCM and that is what reads the key and tells the PCM it can let the motor start. When the BCM fails you can quickly get the no start condition.
But also as Triple dizzle said starter failures are also very common. The backside of the starter solenoid loves to break away or get hot and burn the wires. Also behind the starter is the crankshaft position sensor(CKP) and this 3 wire sensor is critical for the controller to understand when to fire the fuel injectors and ignition coils. When these wires get hot and brittle and degrade we get the crank but no start condition. But to be fair and clear on the subject there is a plethora of things that can bring you to a crank and no start condition.
If you have a crank and no start condition and there is no security light on the dash you can check your fuel supply by pushing in the shrader valve on your fuel rail. If no fuel squirts out then you might have a problem with your fuel pump. Even if there is an anti theft concern present the controller should still prime the rail. It just won't fire the injectors.
I mean we can argue that a motor only needs 3 things to run. Fuel, spark, and compression. The compression we can verify by ear just listening to a healthy battery crank an engine. Or with an amp probe on the main battery cable attached to a lab scope. And if we attach a second channel of that lab scope to a specific cylinder's ignition coil we can actually run a full relative compression test and pinpoint the weak cylinder(s) without a single tool just by counting the humps of the amp spikes from each cylinder building compression and creating drag on the starter motor.
We can easily check for the presence of spark or fuel delivery but to be missing either on a fuel injected engine this side of 1996 capable of storing literally thousands of trouble codes and with a network of modules communicating with each other on 2 different networks we really need powerful and potent diagnostic equipment to accurately put our fingers on the cause of these symptoms we might verify. For reference this is still my go to diagnostic tool: Snap - On's Latest and Greatest | Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums
The purchase price of the above tool was over 10k. The updates for the tool are 1200 twice a year. The Shopkey Pro database it gets linked to is just under $200/mo. Any mechanic, technician, or diagnostician is only as good as the parts they install and the resources they have available to them. But it sure is fun to think we do it on willpower alone. What scantool is the shop you take your car to using? What shop database are they using? Identifix and a generic scanner might be a good telltale that you need to find a better shop with more capable resources.
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715 Posts
Holy crap autowiz that was deep. Didn’t think of the Anti-theft as I don’t own a C5 could be simple as the car not recognizing the key. Or as you said a hundred other things.
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So Gcool did you get any satisfaction out of your repair shop?
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No I didn't get anything from the repair shop. However I'm taking it to a place in Columbus Ga and they are going to take the after market security and fix the wiring in my driver door. The security light has been on the whole time. I've had to do the security dance as I like to call it for it to start. She sounds great and drives great when she's starts. Just can't turn it off until I get home 😊. Thanks. I'll keep you posted. I do have brand new keys switch... control module....
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The security light on the dash has nothing to do with aftermarket alarm systems. The security light on the dash has everything to do with the pellet in the key and the ingition lock cylinder and the BCM on the passenger side toe board. This is a simple circuit. If you are observing a security light that stays illuminated in your IPC you are having a problem with this circuit or one of the components it is made of.
The most immediate correction to stop the pain in this moment for you is to find your way to someone with HPTuners. You can buy it yourself but it is pricey and there is a learning curve to it. With HPTuners we can disable the VATS within the PCM. You will still get a security light on the dash but the vehicle will start every time anyways ignoring the request sent by the BCM. And then you can chase the security light in your own time and put the PCM VATS back together after the fix.
The most immediate correction to stop the pain in this moment for you is to find your way to someone with HPTuners. You can buy it yourself but it is pricey and there is a learning curve to it. With HPTuners we can disable the VATS within the PCM. You will still get a security light on the dash but the vehicle will start every time anyways ignoring the request sent by the BCM. And then you can chase the security light in your own time and put the PCM VATS back together after the fix.
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I suggest you check the trouble codes from the drivers information center , and then post them here, both the h and C codes. Of course, after the usual battery condition check.
that will give the more skilled than myself a clue about what is up with the car. The list of replaced parts implies that this attempt at repair was done with cause, that it didn't work implies otherwise. I figure it best to start with the beginning complaint, and work from there, since the validity of the attempted repair is unknown from the results. Hopefully it is just a simple connection oversight when installing needed parts, that surfaced from test drive vibrations.
My car won't start is something non specific to say to a mechanic, who can then use his knowledge to investigate the situation from a hands on personal perspective. without the actual knowledge of what caused the first attempt at repair, it is just an internet guessing game.
One odd thing , besides a failed $1000 bucks plus repair, that struck my attention was the "new control module " . Could you be more specific about this part? there are a few control modules in the car, but I assume you are speaking of the one central to this issue, the start and run circuits.
I logically assume you are not actually speaking of a new part, but even securing a used one raises some questions, since they are impossible to disassemble for repair, with loose connections being the only possible service repair. I was under the impression that this long discontinued one year only 1999 part was very difficult to obtain. if you can even find a used one, the price is high, without any guarantees it will work.
I may be unclear on this point, since my primary attention is to the 2003 year I own, but I don't think so. I tried a real quick memory check and found Zip corvette listing a new ecbm @ $1000 bucks, with an out of stock disclaimer that seemed to confirm my memory, since I expected something like that result, wherever one might check. I also seem to remember seeing the same out of stock postings on a corvette junkyard site, but at about $1200, used, as is. That was the market rate when I checked ,out of morbid curiosity, since this part is often talked about on corvette sites as a very difficult part to obtain, being it is a one year only part.
to explain to those who , like myself, believe anything manufactured by man can be fixed by man., given the resources, let me explain this exception to the rule. The circuit board is built up in stacked interconnecting layers, so taking it apart effectively destroys the circuit, and electrical values, leaving nothing left to repair, unless you are real good at guessing micro currents correctly, so I have read.
Additionally , the circuits were printed in a way so that GM could have copyright protections like a book, so any copycat part, almost alike, of anything with the same function is violating the copyright protection, unlike, for example, an improved water pump or head design.
unless the new GM all of a sudden drops the old GM customer support policies of just buy a new car, no new part of this type will ever be available. just one of the reasons I count myself lucky to have stumbled into a used 03, since I knew nothing about the line when I bought the car, and the finalized ebcm from 01 to 04 is interchangeable among years.
in double checking my facts, I did come across mention of one guy converting to a later year module, but it required extensive replacement of controlled parts to harmonize with the new part. It sounded like a free labor, I like to work on cars and welcome a challenge to my skills kind of deal, so I didn't investigate .
When researching this part, you will find many mentions of repair service and repaired parts for sale. So far as I know, and my 03 uses the same ultra cheap construction techniques, the common problem of loose connections, which can be re-soldered effectively without disassembling the part, requiring only a cover removal, is the only repair possible.
that will give the more skilled than myself a clue about what is up with the car. The list of replaced parts implies that this attempt at repair was done with cause, that it didn't work implies otherwise. I figure it best to start with the beginning complaint, and work from there, since the validity of the attempted repair is unknown from the results. Hopefully it is just a simple connection oversight when installing needed parts, that surfaced from test drive vibrations.
My car won't start is something non specific to say to a mechanic, who can then use his knowledge to investigate the situation from a hands on personal perspective. without the actual knowledge of what caused the first attempt at repair, it is just an internet guessing game.
One odd thing , besides a failed $1000 bucks plus repair, that struck my attention was the "new control module " . Could you be more specific about this part? there are a few control modules in the car, but I assume you are speaking of the one central to this issue, the start and run circuits.
I logically assume you are not actually speaking of a new part, but even securing a used one raises some questions, since they are impossible to disassemble for repair, with loose connections being the only possible service repair. I was under the impression that this long discontinued one year only 1999 part was very difficult to obtain. if you can even find a used one, the price is high, without any guarantees it will work.
I may be unclear on this point, since my primary attention is to the 2003 year I own, but I don't think so. I tried a real quick memory check and found Zip corvette listing a new ecbm @ $1000 bucks, with an out of stock disclaimer that seemed to confirm my memory, since I expected something like that result, wherever one might check. I also seem to remember seeing the same out of stock postings on a corvette junkyard site, but at about $1200, used, as is. That was the market rate when I checked ,out of morbid curiosity, since this part is often talked about on corvette sites as a very difficult part to obtain, being it is a one year only part.
to explain to those who , like myself, believe anything manufactured by man can be fixed by man., given the resources, let me explain this exception to the rule. The circuit board is built up in stacked interconnecting layers, so taking it apart effectively destroys the circuit, and electrical values, leaving nothing left to repair, unless you are real good at guessing micro currents correctly, so I have read.
Additionally , the circuits were printed in a way so that GM could have copyright protections like a book, so any copycat part, almost alike, of anything with the same function is violating the copyright protection, unlike, for example, an improved water pump or head design.
unless the new GM all of a sudden drops the old GM customer support policies of just buy a new car, no new part of this type will ever be available. just one of the reasons I count myself lucky to have stumbled into a used 03, since I knew nothing about the line when I bought the car, and the finalized ebcm from 01 to 04 is interchangeable among years.
in double checking my facts, I did come across mention of one guy converting to a later year module, but it required extensive replacement of controlled parts to harmonize with the new part. It sounded like a free labor, I like to work on cars and welcome a challenge to my skills kind of deal, so I didn't investigate .
When researching this part, you will find many mentions of repair service and repaired parts for sale. So far as I know, and my 03 uses the same ultra cheap construction techniques, the common problem of loose connections, which can be re-soldered effectively without disassembling the part, requiring only a cover removal, is the only repair possible.
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