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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We just got a report from our customer Ron, who dynoed his bone stock 2008 LS3 today, with around 900 miles on the car.

Hot weather, but out of three pulls his best pull was 386.94 RWHP/374.23 ft. lbs torque.

He installed our Killer Bee AAIS without tuning and picked up as much as 13 RWHP at 125 mph (10 at peak) and 15 ft. lbs at 102 mph (13 peak). New numbers are 396.31 RWHP/387.37 ft. lbs torque.

These are pretty consistent numbers with our LS7 results on the chassis dyno, and back up the 12 HP 11. ft. lbs Katech got on their Superflow Engine dyno on the LS7.

What is very interesting is that the air fuel ratio was exactly where GM puts it on the LS3, at 11.5:1 at max power and fuel enrichment. Our Killer Bee set off the Cat Overtemp Protection, since the ECM did not have a chance to relearn the fuel trims. Air fuel was at 11:1 and lower at a few points.

We expect much better results when the air fuel ratio is tuned to around 12.8:1 and get a little more timing in Ron's car.

The point here is that even without tuning, you can feel 13-15 ft. lbs torque, and 10 to 13 RWHP. I expect 410 plus RWHP with tuning.

Stay tuned for the next dyno coming soon.



Ron is going with the whole Killer Bee™ Attack package.
(Killer Bee AAIS and emailTUNE™)



 

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:partyon: :partyon: :partyon: :partyon:
 

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Those are great numbers but I'm afraid once you close the hood and IATs go up then the HP/TQ is coming down via timing retard. Need a way to get cool air to that free flowing intake to see appreciable 1/4 mile improvement. Of course with the IAT tables reduced with tuning and assuming no knock retard is observed then the gains will be real.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Those are great numbers but I'm afraid once you close the hood and IATs go up then the HP/TQ is coming down via timing retard. Need a way to get cool air to that free flowing intake to see appreciable 1/4 mile improvement. Of course with the IAT tables reduced with tuning and assuming no knock retard is observed then the gains will be real.
This is not correct. The gains are going to be the same whether the hood is up or down. Don't forget, the stock pulls had the benefit of the hood up as well. Any gain with the Halltech, will be gained with the hood closed when comparing it to the stock setup.

The heat soak from the engine cooks the IAT and bridge area on the stock intake as well, reducing timing.

I aqree with the idea of getting ambient air to the filter, and we have found that the Vette-Air option works as advertised:

http://www.theair-charger.com/

Carlos sells the Killer Bee and Vette-Air Induction as a package. Check it out;



Jim
 

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This is not correct. The gains are going to be the same whether the hood is up or down. Don't forget, the stock pulls had the benefit of the hood up as well. Any gain with the Halltech, will be gained with the hood closed when comparing it to the stock setup.

The heat soak from the engine cooks the IAT and bridge area on the stock intake as well, reducing timing.

I aqree with the idea of getting ambient air to the filter, and we have found that the Vette-Air option works as advertised:

http://www.theair-charger.com/

Jim
Now that set up just might be the ticket!
 

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I just put the vette air on my car last week. It seems a little smaller opening than the vararam (never had them side by side). The big difference between the two is that the vararam encloses the filter, meaning the intake can only suck air from the front of the car and theoretically create positive pressure at speed. In the vette air, it is just a nice way of opening up the shroud and getting cold air into engine bay, where the big Halltech filter can pick it up.

I appeared to gain 2 tenths and 2mph with the Halltech and vette-air. A lot of people have claimed to get 3 and 3 with the vararam.

I got the combo at a good deal, and I hear you have to wash the vararam filter very often, so figured the extra 1mph or tenth was not worth it.

I think I will see more improvement once it cools down too. When I did my test it was still over 100 on the track, so while breathing cooler air than the engine bay, it wasn't that much cooler.

BTW, can someone do the calc of CFM of air of the LS2 at peak hp, and see what speed that equals the opening of the vararam moving through atmospheric pressure, (i.e. At what speed it is even possible for the vararam to create positive intake pressure?) My guess it's pretty high.

Actually here is a rough calc. 366 CID, 6000rpms/2 (4 stroke engine) = 635 CFM
Let's assume the vararam opening is 20 sq inches.
(speed in inches per min) * 20 / 12^3 = 635
54864 inches/min = 51.95 mph.

Ok, so not as fast as I thought. Maybe it does really ram some air in there. Although it's not sealed so the intake can only hold as much pressure as a 20 sq" wall of air will sustain, and that's where this starts getting over my head.
 

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Another problem with the VarRam is cross sectional area of the filter. It has approximately 66.72 sq. inches. The factory close to 94 sq. in.(05-07). Can't say for sure but until you are forcing air into the VarRam it will produce even less hp.

Here's a comparison of the VarRam to the Xcelerator. The Xcelerator has 100.03 sq. ins.
 

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hey whats the best performance exaust headers etc.... to run w/complete bee system, noise not a factor, oh yea on the ls3 that ia...thanx

tommy
 

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For real AIT temp reduction, I'm really leaning toward this hood from lingenfelter



I had something similar on my 96 camaro and kept everything so cool, I rarely pulled any timing.
 

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Was This 08 A Manual Or Automatic? I've Seen 390 And 395 Rwhp
With A Stock Mn6 And Npp Exhaust.
 

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This is not correct. The gains are going to be the same whether the hood is up or down. Don't forget, the stock pulls had the benefit of the hood up as well. Any gain with the Halltech, will be gained with the hood closed when comparing it to the stock setup.

The heat soak from the engine cooks the IAT and bridge area on the stock intake as well, reducing timing.

I aqree with the idea of getting ambient air to the filter, and we have found that the Vette-Air option works as advertised:

http://www.theair-charger.com/

Carlos sells the Killer Bee and Vette-Air Induction as a package. Check it out;



Jim
Jim, I just ordered the Stinger SSM (from SCP) for my 07 so don't take this the wrong way because I don't doubt your product. Why don't you do some dyno pulls with the hood closed both stock and with your intakes to show the difference to the doubters. I know the numbers would be lower but at least you could show the difference. :thumbsup:
 

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Jim, I just ordered the Stinger SSM (from SCP) for my 07 so don't take this the wrong way because I don't doubt your product. Why don't you do some dyno pulls with the hood closed both stock and with your intakes to show the difference to the doubters. I know the numbers would be lower but at least you could show the difference. :thumbsup:
Jim Hall where are you ?
 

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For real AIT temp reduction, I'm really leaning toward this hood from lingenfelter



I had something similar on my 96 camaro and kept everything so cool, I rarely pulled any timing.
I love the looks that hood too....
:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Killer Bee is endorsed by Katach Engine Development

Jim, I just ordered the Stinger SSM (from SCP) for my 07 so don't take this the wrong way because I don't doubt your product. Why don't you do some dyno pulls with the hood closed both stock and with your intakes to show the difference to the doubters. I know the numbers would be lower but at least you could show the difference. :thumbsup:
When the stock intake is dynoed vs. the Killer Bee, hoods are always up, since this is the correct way to Dyno. Every dyno session that I have ever been to, which number in the hundreds, is done hood up, and for good reason.

Closing the hood is a garden variety card trick done by the bottom breather promoters to provide numbers that favor their products. In the real world, they heat soak as much or more when sitting in traffic.

The problem is that their products have no advantages over the Killer Bee, except when this type of dyno-hype is promoted. The truth is that the bottom breathers do not make very good dyno numbers, so Chris Angel is hired to level the playing field with dyno slight of hand tricks. If a product does not produce numbers on the dyno, then it will not produce them on the road with the hood closed. Ram air is a real, but not when there is a filter restricting flow.

Forget about hydrolock for a minute, and imagine the bottom breathers in the rain. Look at the self cleaning that occurs when the rain water dissolves the dirt, dust and grime in the filter, and visualize the muck that is ingested into your expensive motor. This is why we do not recommend bottom breathers, and neither does Katech. Katech and Kooks Headers recommends our Killer Bee to all their customers due to its safety, power, and ISO 5011 Filtration.

The best and safest air induction around is our Killer Bee AAIS, with the Air-Charger cold air induction system for the LS3. Our R&D showed that even when sitting for 5 minutes, the air intake temperatures were still close to outside temps with this setup. We also have a Cold Air Induction system that works much the same way as the old Z06 did.

Whenever your car sits for 1 minute, all intakes have the intake air temp jump to 120F to 130F due to heat soak from the engine. The MAF sensor is directly above a coolant hose! There is no way to get the intakes cooled down for subsequent dyno pulls with the hood closed.

Dyno testing does not come close to the results on the road since very few fans used at dyno shops duplicate the real world. i.e. 160 mph airflow through the radiator.

If opening the hood brings bias to the intake numbers, that bias is lost to the heat of the engine not seeing the real airflow through the radiator and engine bay. Most of the heat exits the engine bay as you are moving.
 

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VR reports that positive intake pressure is achieved at approximately 37 mph, and I believe it is close to this.

Now, I think the biggest problem on the LS3 is still with the TB on the intake side- will be getting mine either ported or replaced. I have heard of 12 & 12 RW increases with a new throttle body that will be coming out soon. I also run the TB spacer on my '08 b/c, stock, it has an extra box to increase volume and the TB spacer also helps do this.

A
 
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