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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110103...jb3JkaW9uX3Vfc19uZXdzBHNsawNwYWFsbG93c2R1bXA-

excerpt....




"Researchers are still trying to figure out whether Pennsylvania's river discharges, at their current levels, are dangerous to humans or wildlife. Several studies are under way, some under the auspices of the Environmental Protection Agency.

State officials, energy companies and the operators of treatment plants insist that with the right safeguards in place, the practice poses little or no risk to the environment or to the hundreds of thousands of people who rely on those rivers for drinking water.

But an Associated Press review found that Pennsylvania's efforts to minimize, control and track wastewater discharges from the Marcellus Shale have sometimes failed.

For example:

• Of the roughly 6 million barrels of well liquids produced in a 12-month period examined by The AP, the state couldn't account for the disposal method for 1.28 million barrels, about a fifth of the total, because of a weakness in its reporting system and incomplete filings by some energy companies.

• Some public water utilities that sit downstream from big gas wastewater treatment plants have struggled to stay under the federal maximum for contaminants known as trihalomethanes, which can cause cancer if swallowed over a long period.

• Regulations that should have kept drilling wastewater out of the important Delaware River Basin, the water supply for 15 million people in four states, were circumvented for many months.

In 2009 and part of 2010, energy company Cabot Oil & Gas trucked more than 44,000 barrels of well wastewater to a treatment facility in Hatfield Township, a Philadelphia suburb. Those liquids ultimately were discharged into a creek that provides drinking water to 17 municipalities with more than 300,000 residents. Cabot acknowledged it should not have happened.

People in those communities had been told repeatedly that the watershed was free of gas waste.

"This is an outrage," said Tracy Carluccio, deputy director of the Delaware Riverkeeper Network, an environmental group. "This is indicative of the lack of adequate oversight."





read on.....
 

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I am waiting for the 'anti regulation because businesses will always do the right thing' crowd to chime in.

:rolleyes:
 

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I am waiting for the 'anti regulation because businesses will always do the right thing' crowd to chime in.

:rolleyes:
The trick is, getting the right amount of regulation. Regulation is fine, when it don't hinder business or discourage competition. But, democrat style regulation shuts everything except government down..
 

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I am waiting for the 'anti regulation because businesses will always do the right thing' crowd to chime in.

:rolleyes:
I wouldn't know where you would find "that crowd" -and this certainly is not our position. So... your statement is another gross distortion of truth, meant to further the rage and knee jerk reaction for an ideology based in emotion and lacking all but the minimum intellect needed for simplest communication. A grunt from you... would have been as sufficient and equal to the response you gave, above.

How about this... from this point forward -we cut the duplicate and unneeded regulation from the books... and invoke the death penalty for anyone caught willfully dumping in to our waterways ? Even better... all employees, owners and their immediate families... must only consume the water downstream, from these facilities. Think we would require ANY regulation... if this was the law ?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
...... Even better... all employees, owners and their immediate families... must only consume the water downstream, from these facilities. Think we would require ANY regulation... if this was the law ?

That would still be considered regulation....
 

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Not "considered"... It would be the regulation. Point being... there would be one -and that one would hold more regulatory power then the thousands you champion, now... with far less impact then my one.

We do not need more regulations... we need strict and extreme penalties.
 

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The trick is, getting the right amount of regulation. Regulation is fine, when it don't hinder business or discourage competition. But, democrat style regulation shuts everything except government down..
Bingo! It's crazy to say the Right wants NO regs. What we want is some reasonableness and some limits to the reg powers. Congress, as our elected representatives should have final say on the degree of regulation. The Obama administration is doing an end-around congress on several fronts from EPA to FCC
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Bingo! It's crazy to say the Right wants NO regs. What we want is some reasonableness and some limits to the reg powers.


Where do we define the limit of death or destruction as unsatisfactory or overprotection?



12 dead people?

5?

20?


50 dead people?


A hundred?


How many miles of Ocean?

How much damage to the ecosystem is ok and how much is too much?
 

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Present levels are acceptable. As a painting contractor... we have more injuries and deaths then all drilling... combined. Should we mandate a new regulation that no house may be built higher then face height ? -in order to limit accidents and spills ? That... is what this ridiculousness, amounts to.
 

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Present levels are acceptable. As a painting contractor... we have more injuries and deaths then all drilling... combined. Should we mandate a new regulation that no house may be built higher then face height ? -in order to limit accidents and spills ? That... is what this ridiculousness, amounts to.
Well said...:thumbsup:
and maybe we should mandate that NO car would be capable of going more than 5 mph so that with 5 mph bumpers nobody would ever get hurt in a crash...then comutes would suck, though...no wait, we could all live in the commune 8 story ghetto project buildings that dot the Russian landscape and ride mass transit...ever been there? I have. Makes you hate what America is becoming.

Funny thing is, most "learned and enlightened" people have never been anywhere other than "American-type" parts of the world.
 

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This one is hard for me to digest. I have never known of anyone disposing of produced water into river systems. I am most defiantly not saying this information or article is wrong , its just that I am from the evaporation and waste injection well part of the world, that is what I know.

I agree with the premise of the article there is a regulation loop hole here that needs closing. Produced water wether, naturaly occuring(like brine mentioned in the non-quoted portion of the article) or frac introduced should not be mixed with drinking water, at least without major treating. And this article does not show what kind and how much treating was done to the water in question.

One of the energy companies did have agood idea and that was recycling the produced water to use in future fracs. The high salinity would likely not be an issue since my company has fracked with brine in the past.
 

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Present levels are acceptable. As a painting contractor... we have more injuries and deaths then all drilling... combined. Should we mandate a new regulation that no house may be built higher then face height ? -in order to limit accidents and spills ? That... is what this ridiculousness, amounts to.
There are also more paint contractors than oil workers by a factor. And let's face it, while the owners might be smart, most painters are not.
 

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What is your gauge of "smart" ? Are they any less intelligent then an auto mechanic... or a dude that makes and sells wine or beer at a Medieval Fair ? Are they any less intelligent then an EPA employee or the drill rig employee ? Does one simply need to attend a college or university to be considered "smart" ? Does a lack of attendance of either, constitute a lack of intelligence ?

What is smart ? -and what does it have to do with regulation ? My understanding of your sides complaints... is that regulations are necessary due to greed and corruption... not intelligence.
 

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What is your gauge of "smart" ? Are they any less intelligent then an auto mechanic... or a dude that makes and sells wine or beer at a Medieval Fair ? Are they any less intelligent then an EPA employee or the drill rig employee ? Does one simply need to attend a college or university to be considered "smart" ? Does a lack of attendance of either, constitute a lack of intelligence ?

What is smart ? -and what does it have to do with regulation ? My understanding of your sides complaints... is that regulations are necessary due to greed and corruption... not intelligence.
I am saying that most 'employee' painters would look like one of your slinkies falling down one of your ladders. There are a select few true artists and simple geniuses in the mix, for sure, but most are bag of hammers dumb. They are amongst the nicest people (carpenters tend to be a hair smarter, but insufferable assholes) of the trades. Probably because of low union representation. Some union guys get really full of themselves.
 

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I am saying that most 'employee' painters would look like one of your slinkies falling down one of your ladders. There are a select few true artists and simple geniuses in the mix, for sure, but most are bag of hammers dumb. They are amongst the nicest people (carpenters tend to be a hair smarter, but insufferable assholes) of the trades. Probably because of low union representation. Some union guys get really full of themselves.
Wow,this is a great example of elitist liberal arrogance.
All they want to do is help the little guy.
 
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