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Automatic trans... or manual?

  • Auto

    Votes: 32 62.7%
  • Manual

    Votes: 19 37.3%

  • Total voters
    51
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

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DC Crew
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53,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
[VOTE ABOVE]

Whatcha got?

All my "other cars" are automatics, but I had to get the 6-speed in the GS, and previous vettes.

But, if I was building a quarter-mile terror, I'd get an auto for sure.
 

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990 Posts
all my cars are manual, gives me something to do:D
 

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2,364 Posts
Being lazy and lack of manuals around left me with an auto. Oh well, a little work and it'll have some good go to it.
 

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Premium Member
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11,627 Posts
Too lazy for a manual. :)
 

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DC PIT CREW BOSS
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The Vette's an A4 bu the next one will be a M6. All my past play cars (Trans Am, Camaro, IROC-Z, and many others) have been stick.
 

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Mr. Casino
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7,581 Posts
Hey Pat,

I wonder if the Big Johnson is manual or automatic? :D

Auto as a daily driver but manual when just fun riding. (On a vette of course)
 

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When the new 911 comes out in 2005 it will have the newest evolution of performance sequential shift transmissions.

A dual clutch six speed sequential transmission that even Bob Lutz is impressed with.

Might hit Corvette in 2007 or 2008.

Instantanous shifts...less than 80 milliseconds. ....
 

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Getrag and Ford: working together on transmissions
19 Feb 2001
Source: just-auto.com editorial team


To be known as GETRAG FORD Transmissions GmbH, the joint venture between Getrag and Ford that began on 1st February this year after almost twelve months of preparation, promises to be the beginning of great change in the vehicle transmissions arena. The deal, in which Getrag will manage the production of all Ford's manual transmissions at their plants in Europe, opens the way forward for Ford to benefit from some of the world's greatest transmissions thinking whilst at the same time making best use of highly stretched resources.

Total production will initially be 1.6 million manual gearboxes a year. A new Getrag/Ford headquarters will also be built in Cologne to head the joint venture. Part of the deal also sees a large joint investment (more than US$0.5 billion) to develop a complete range of next generation transmissions for Ford over the next five years - and Ford has guaranteed to continue to source gearboxes from the joint venture for a minimum of five years after that. These new gearboxes will not only comprise new six speed designs but also the new high-efficiency automated manual (AMT) concepts that are beginning to appear on the market as a way to improve vehicle fuel economy and emissions. Getrag was first to the market with an AMT back in 1996 when it produced a sequential automated manual gearbox for the BMW M3 and has since built on its experience with units for DaimlerChrysler's Smart and Sprinter vehicles and the automation on the new Ford Transit.


Examples of 5 speed manual transverse installed transmissions


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"Getrag was first to the market with an AMT back in 1996"
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The Ford plants involved are Cologne, Halewood and the Bordeaux manual transaxle facility in France. The plants are currently running at near to full capacity but some additional units may be produced, should the joint venture wish, by increasing the number of night shifts. Ford will continue with its existing automatic transmission manufacturing facility (also at Bordeaux) under its own management for the time being. That plant supplies a range of conventional automatics that are mainly used in the US so there won't be any great conflict of interests if and when Getrag Ford start to produce their own AMTs - at least not for the next few years. AMT in its present form is not a competitor to the traditional automatic for smoothness anyway, even if it does offer much improved fuel economy and emissions. The concept will be slowly rolled out (by a number of gearbox makers) across European vehicles until further development makes it suitable for the US mass market.

Whether this will also affect Ford US new transmission developments remains to be seen, but Getrag has already done important work in many new transmission areas; AMT for BMW and DaimlerChrysler, CVT development work for undisclosed clients and also Infinitely Variable Transmissions for its now second largest customer, BMW. The company is also working on next generation AMT, which has the potential to rival existing conventional automatics for smoothness and far outstrip them for efficiency. Ford is now in the enviable position of being able to let Getrag handle all this development for them. Both partners will share equally in the fruits of this development work as technologies such as next generation AMT, likely to be market ready by 2004, will be made available for sale to other car makers.


Six speed manual gearbox for the Focus ST and SVT is Getrag's latest transmission for Ford

In the case of development of transmissions for Ford US, it makes absolute sense for Getrag to be involved as it will enable Ford to improve its much-criticised US fuel economy ratings. In a rapid PR response in July 2000, Ford CEO Jac Nasser confirmed publicly that the company intends to improve its SUV fleet economy by 25% by 2005 - a rather tall order in view of their traditionally-made (read 'heavy') range of current F10s etc. When asked for details he would only say that the company regards their technologies as a competitive advantage and that they would be applied to volume-produced (not PR-led, expensive, few thousand units-a-year economy) vehicles without an increase in real prices. However they achieve this, Ford needs to be committed if it wishes to maintain its overseas SUV sales (albeit rather limited at present).

President Bush's new government is in the process of reviewing the 'demanding' fuel economy rules of the Clinton administration, (even those are not on the same level as European rules) to reduce the 'environmental burden' on the domestic vehicle producers. It is unlikely however that Ford will be able to relax completely in the face of efforts of the other Big Three competitors (with their more global, shared platform strategies they are obliged to produce more economical vehicles for overseas markets). GM and DaimlerChrysler will undoubtedly increase environmental pressure on the father of the Model T to live up to its fuel economy promises.

This latest move with Ford and Dana's recent acquisition of substantial shares in parts of the company (Getrag) all go to show how far this family-controlled gearbox specialist has come since it was established in Ludwigsburg, Germany in 1935.

The Ford joint venture comes less than a year after Dana's agreement to purchase 30% of Getrag Cie*, the Getrag Group's parent company, and 49% in Getrag North America's operations on June 29th 2000. Dana's recent collaboration with GKN (to produce advanced driveline technologies) is ideally complimented by the Dana acquisition of Getrag shares to further develop that company's chassis and driveline system products. The pattern that is emerging is of Getrag's part in truly world class vehicle system development and production. Dana and GKN already have the responsibility for the new Ford Transit chassis assembly - Getrag's links with Dana and now Ford will strengthen this. All moves by the four companies are along the lines that Ford US would prefer; to make best use of already stretched European resources by passing on chassis and transmission development and manufacturing responsibility to the acknowledged specialists. Further evidence of this restructuring comes from the recent joint venture with ZF (51% ZF / 49% Ford) at Ford's Batavia automatic transmissions plant in which ZF will be responsible for all existing automatic gearbox production at that plant. The venture is also charged with the development and manufacture of a range of new belt CVT gearboxes - for Ford and other car makers. First units off the line are expected to arrive in 2002 to be fitted to Ford's medium size cars - eventually to replace the majority of the company's conventional automatic transmission fitment.


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"Getrag has grown unstintingly over the past 66 years to become an acknowledged world leader in the manufacturing of gearboxes"
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A six speed automated
transmission
Getrag has grown unstintingly over the past 66 years to become an acknowledged world leader in the manufacturing of gearboxes. Their client list includes such prestigious names as Audi, BMW, DaimlerChrysler, GM-Opel/Vauxhall, Jaguar, Porsche and Volkswagen. Already a big supplier of transmissions to Ford via Jaguar, Getrag has also worked with Ford-badged cars over the years - the latest product being a six speed manual gearbox for the Focus ST and SVT - Ford's first ever six speed front wheel drive car. In December 1998, the company set up an Italian production facility to produce gearboxes for the Rover 75 and Opel Astra and Vectra. The Bari, Italy, fac toryadded a further 500,000 units a year of capacity to the company's 1998 total of 650,000 units.


Their own manufacturing capacity has now reached 1.5 million manual gearboxes alone; with the new Ford joint venture that figure rises to more than 3 million units a year. The new joint venture and the existing Getrag Group will now be known as the Getrag Corporate Group. In 2001, the new group will target sales of around DM3.4 billion with an estimated 8700 employees.


With development and production facilities in Europe, US, Japan and India the company is now a truly global player. In the words of H. Tobias Hagenmeyer (chairman and CEO of Getrag Corporate in addition to CEO of Getrag Ford Transmissions GmbH): "While maintaining Getrag's independence as a worldwide supplier to the car industry, the joint venture with Ford offers us the opportunity to grow strongly. This necessary growth is to be seen in light of the rapid consolidation in the car and automotive supply industry. With the joint venture we are pursuing the goal of driving forward the joint development of innovative transmission systems."

*Full name: GETRAG Getriebe- und Zahnradfabrik Hermann Hagenmeyer GmbH & Cie.
 

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This is the early release Audi version of Porsches new PDK Sequential unit set to release in "05.

Even Lutz is impressed by this as a performance option:

Heres an audi review:

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Audi is adding extra performance to its diminutive TT coupe with a
3.2-liter V-6 engine that will drive the car through a completely new transmission
that uses two clutches for swift changes. The six-speed Direct Shift Gearbox
(DSG) transmission is said to combine all the benefits of a conventional
six-speed manual gearbox with the qualities of a modern automatic. Audi claims it
gives enormous agility, driving enjoyment and economy as well as convenient
operation and smooth acceleration with uninterrupted traction.
The source of the power is the proven 3.2-liter V-6 engine that VW has just
fitted to the most powerful Golf in its range. With its cylinder angle of 15
degrees, the unit is extremely compact and is therefore especially suitable
for transverse installation.
Other technical details such as continuously adjustable inlet and exhaust
camshafts and the variable intake manifold give the engine superior torque and
power coupled with low emissions. The engine now delivers 250 hp and a
maximum of 236 lb-ft of torque from 2800 to 3200 rpm.
Audi claims the TT 3.2 will accelerate from zero to 62 mph in 6.4 seconds
and will have a maximum speed of 155 mph. Overall fuel consumption, at 24 mpg,
is said to be comparable with a car fitted with a normal six-speed manual
gearbox.
The revolutionary transmission is actually based on a six-speed manual
gearbox, but thanks to the use of an integrated twin multi-plate clutch with an
ingenious control system, two gears can be engaged at the same time. During
normal running, one gear is engaged, but when the next gearshift point is
approached, the appropriate gear is pre-selected but its clutch is kept
disengaged. The gearshift process disengages the clutch of the activated gear and
engages the other clutch at the same moment. The gear change takes place under
load, with the result that a permanent flow of power is maintained.
The control logic integrated into the transmission maintains optimum
gearshift strategies that perform lightning-fast gearshifts that are, according to
Audi, nevertheless smooth and almost jolt-free. The driver can shift by means
of the gear lever in the manual gate or the standard-fit shift paddles on
the steering wheel.
As on conventional manual gearboxes, the transmission ratios are present on
input and auxiliary shafts in the form of pairs of toothed wheels. In
contrast to manual gearboxes, the input shaft is divided into two sections. It
comprises an outer hollow shaft, and an inner shaft. The first, third, fifth
gears and reverse are located on the inner shaft. The hollow shaft handles the
even-numbered gears. Each of these shafts is selected by means of a separate
multi-plate clutch running in oil. The two electronically controlled,
hydraulically actuated clutches are packed inside each other for maximum space
economy.
As well as their high efficiency and ability to transmit high torque,
clutches of this type permit a wide range of starting characteristics. The
multi-plate clutch can be controlled in such a way that every form of moving off is
possible, from an ultra-gentle edging along on a slippery surface to
sports-style acceleration at full throttle.
Audi claims the gearshifts feel “spontaneous and decisive, as if executed
at the push of a button.” An electronic-control throttle blip feature in
manual and Sport modes reinforces the impression of ultra-dynamic gearshifts.
The 3.2 TT, which will embody minor body modifications to improve breathing
and aerodynamics, will go on sale in mid-2003
 

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I personally think matching this dual clutch technology with ceramic clutch would be the eventual evolution to hit the high performance arena..

The 100,000 mile ceramic clutch material and the ability to lower the center of gravity due to its much smaller size as we see in the 400000 dollar Carrera GT...utilizing this ceramic clutch would give amazing performance advantage...as well as the instaneous shift speeds of dual clutch technology.

the fact that the ceramic clutch material would last at least 100,000 miles is even more impetus to make this happen .

When? Who the hell knows..yet if porsche pulls this off in its standard 911 due to release in the 2005 model year...

Others will soon follow...IMHO

Dave Hills interview over at www.crossedflags.com showed his interest in this technology where he also showed less than exciting enthusiasm for BMW's SMG II. (single clutch sequential)

Check it out for a cool interview.

Good info and I hope its ok to mention on this site.

IF not, moderators please delete link.

JB
 

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The hot news is the dual clutch sequential six speed that incorporates two clutches..one for gears 1,3, 5 and the other clutch for 2,4, 6

This allows even faster shifts than the 80 milliseconds of BMW's award winning SMG II..and the automatic mode is absolutely seamless in operation..

Shared technology porsche is calling PDK? will first showcase the concept next year on the US bound Audi TT and even VW is getting in on the action with its V6 Golf..

Power for the next round of 911's is coming not from the twin turbo 4.5 liter V8 but from flat six's..

Powers up on all Porsche models in 2005..

There is strong rumor a Porsche GT will make use of the V8 twin turbo is there is available capacity in production

BtW ..heres an excerpt from Autocar magazine where I saw not only the photos but the article..

"The big technical news is Porsche's embracing of an automated manual gearbox, a belated move for a company that pioneered teh technology with the sportomatic in the early 70's. Unlike the Ferrari F1 set up Porsche is adopting a double clutch system that essentially the same as will be used in the VW Golf R32 and the Auid TT v6 early next year.

Known internal as PDK for Porsche Duppelkupplung the idea is to have one clutch for first, third and fith gears and the other for second fourth sixth and reverse, so there is no interruption of power, and the gearchanges are seamless. Ceramic brakes already offered on the Turbo will become more widely available. "
 

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Back in the early 70's all my rides were manual. Now that I am a lazy old fart, all 5 of my rides are auto.:smokin:
 
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