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I don't think this is going to be a blown engine. Based on what Tom Wallace says about the 600hp output of the car, I think they will use a C6R race engine which already has this amount of horsepower. The cool thing is that they are thinking about mandating a kind of drivers ed prog that will allow "those that can afford this car" be able to make most of its performance. The drivers ed prog is a kind of membership requirement to have rights to purchase this car. So guys who want it, start saving up cause it's going to cost BIG $$$$$$$$$.
 

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Here is the story from AutoWeek:

To Hell and Back
Off-again/on-again super-Corvette is definitely on, GM performance cars chief says

AutoWeek | Published 05/01/06, 2:38 pm et

That off-again/on-again super-Corvette is definitely on, according to General Motors performance cars chief Tom Wallace.

Wallace, who replaced recently retired Corvette chief engineer Dave Hill, tells AutoWeek the biggest challenge facing the so-called Blue Devil Corvette is figuring out how to get 600 hp to the ground in such a way that it can be handled by a driver with the money to buy the car.

Wallace said GM is considering requiring that Blue Devil—and even Z06—buyers attend a driver school as part of the price of admission.

:partyon:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't think so.

rpanesar said:
I don't think this is going to be a blown engine. Based on what Tom Wallace says about the 600hp output of the car, I think they will use a C6R race engine which already has this amount of horsepower. The cool thing is that they are thinking about mandating a kind of drivers ed prog that will allow "those that can afford this car" be able to make most of its performance. The drivers ed prog is a kind of membership requirement to have rights to purchase this car. So guys who want it, start saving up cause it's going to cost BIG $$$$$$$$$.

I have built a C5R engine for my race car. It is easy to get 600+ HP out of this block, the problem is streeteability. A race car is not so easy to drive around in 1st gear and at low RPMs. I think that the Z06 with it's 540 or so HP is a civilized as you can make that block. A factory based supercharger (like in the Ford GT) allows you to have a steeper torque curve thus making the car friendlier at idle and in 1st gear at lower RPMs. A big thing that they are trying to figure out is how to get the power to the ground and a C6R engine wont do it easily for the average driver. Remeber this thing is going to compete with the 911 Turbo (price wise) and will shoot for that driver. Not for the die-hard Vette fan who already might have a 600+ hp car. Although, I will put my name on the list as soon as I can because I want this car already.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Again

alexandro777 said:
Why use an expensive engine like the c6r when they could use an ls7 and make it have 600hp.
An NA 427 block at 600hp is going to be too loud an too rough at low RPMs. Why do you think that all the supercars (McLaren, Enzo, SLR, Koenissegg) have either a V12 or a blown engine or combo of those. These cars all need to be streeteable and civilized.
 

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The C5-6R costs upwards of 20k. I can almost say that the race motor has been ruled out.
 

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As far as the engien goes, they can get 600BHP from the LS7 engine which I must point out is a street version of the C6 Rs LS7R. They are already getting as much as 530BHP from the LS7 so we are realyl only asking for another 70BHP from this engine and it can use some technology to help it make that power.

Direct injection gasoline which GM has been developing its own systems esp. for the Gen IV Small Block Chevy works by putting the injectors right into the combustion chamber. This allows for much more contorl over the engine's operations and makes it more efficent which not only results in more power but a broad curve.

V.V.T., GM has developed a VVT for OHV engines, they use it in the 3.5L and 3.9L engine in the 2006 Chevy Impala. This is a continuesly variable system which offers 40 degrees of cam phasing and in some vehicles gives a extremely broad torque curve. The non VVT 3.5L V-6 makes 201BHP while the VVT version of the 3.5L (which is a completely different engine I must add) makes 224BHP in the 2007 Saturn Aura. In thoery with those two bits of technology added to the LS7 and onl those two bits added and nothing else changed they can get 600+BHP form the LS7 and still have a clean and drivable engine. VVT is what makes all of these "super cars" reach such a high level of Horsepower and yet remian pretty civil. In order to be given more respect from Europeans and Euro car fans it would probably need another 500rpms though from 7,000rpms to 7,500rpms.
 

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VetteFinders said:
Wallace said GM is considering requiring that Blue Devil—and even Z06—buyers attend a driver school as part of the price of admission.

:partyon:
I said that years ago.....YEP, THEY'RE WATCHING THE SITE!...
 

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VetteFinders said:
Here is the story from AutoWeek:

Wallace said GM is considering requiring that Blue Devil—and even Z06—buyers attend a driver school as part of the price of admission.

im all for driving schools but not for "price of admission" didnt I just give you $100,000? Getting the car is hard enough dont make it any harder.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
While I agree with 100% of what DOC7000 says. I still think it is cheaper for GM to take an LS2 (thicker walls than the LS7 better than for FI and cheaper) and put a well designed and intercooled supercharger. They don't need to change their production lines or the LS engines. Now, if this Blue Devil is going to be a C7 based car, then that's a whole different story, if in fact GM wants to redesign the engine and go to a DFI engine. Remember that the LS2 and LS7 are still LS engines. If it becomes DFI then it no longer is an LS8-9 but something completely different.

But DFI is surely the way to go. I believe the new Audi and Mercedes engines are that way. The only way to get the LS7 to a civil 600hp is the way that DOC7000 recommends. My guess is that GM is too cheap and will go the FI route.
 

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sebrock said:
While I agree with 100% of what DOC7000 says. I still think it is cheaper for GM to take an LS2 (thicker walls than the LS7 better than for FI and cheaper) and put a well designed and intercooled supercharger. They don't need to change their production lines or the LS engines. Now, if this Blue Devil is going to be a C7 based car, then that's a whole different story, if in fact GM wants to redesign the engine and go to a DFI engine. Remember that the LS2 and LS7 are still LS engines. If it becomes DFI then it no longer is an LS8-9 but something completely different.

But DFI is surely the way to go. I believe the new Audi and Mercedes engines are that way. The only way to get the LS7 to a civil 600hp is the way that DOC7000 recommends. My guess is that GM is too cheap and will go the FI route.
GM already has two vehicles that will go onsale soon with direct injection engines. THe Pontiac Sosltice GXP and the Saturn Sky redline, they pack a 2.0L Turbo direct injection engine making 260BHP and 260ft-lbs. And its no big secret that direct injection will hit the Small Block Chevy line up jsut no one seems to know when and which engine will get it first.

I think that tyhe LS3 which is suppose to be a 6.2L Gen IV engine will pack direct injeciton but Im not sure.
 

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VetteFinders said:
Here is the story from AutoWeek:

To Hell and Back
Off-again/on-again super-Corvette is definitely on, GM performance cars chief says

AutoWeek | Published 05/01/06, 2:38 pm et

That off-again/on-again super-Corvette is definitely on, according to General Motors performance cars chief Tom Wallace.

Wallace, who replaced recently retired Corvette chief engineer Dave Hill, tells AutoWeek the biggest challenge facing the so-called Blue Devil Corvette is figuring out how to get 600 hp to the ground in such a way that it can be handled by a driver with the money to buy the car.

Wallace said GM is considering requiring that Blue Devil—and even Z06—buyers attend a driver school as part of the price of admission.

:partyon:

EXACTLY!! Interesting that Mr. Wallace's first statement about the SS presents this problem. How do you accomplish this on a street car that must allow the driver to have some fun, but not end up in a ditch if there's a little moisture on the road!!!!????? A compelling case for a rear middy, or all wheel drive.
 

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Longtimer said:
EXACTLY!! Interesting that Mr. Wallace's first statement about the SS presents this problem. How do you accomplish this on a street car that must allow the driver to have some fun, but not end up in a ditch if there's a little moisture on the road!!!!????? A compelling case for a rear middy, or all wheel drive.

They should develop something similar to what Ferrari has.

 

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IMO, if they want to compete, they should put direct injection and a supercharger on the ls2. Bore it a bit, but keep cylinder integrity, and pump in about a atmosphere. End result of almost 700 horse, completely civil. If you keep the stroke the same, but use the same exotic materials as in the LS7, 7500 rpm is achievable.

Of course, if they can reduce the weight below 2800 pounds, 600 horsepower is just fine!
 

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rpanesar said:
The cool thing is that they are thinking about mandating a kind of drivers ed prog that will allow "those that can afford this car" be able to make most of its performance. .
I wish this was the way all Z06 sales were. I'll bet there would be a lot less in the ditch, or hitting telephone poles from dumb A$$ drivers that think just because they have the money ..... they can drive it.

I would have loved to go to a drivers ed class after I got my Z06. That would be a blast.:partyon:

My 04 Z06 is modified to 525 HP (crank), and 505 TQ (crank). I highly respect the potential of this car, and it never ceases to scare the crap out of me. :D

Be careful with the big HP cars guys !

Toque
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Totally Agree

theflinger said:
IMO, if they want to compete, they should put direct injection and a supercharger on the ls2. Bore it a bit, but keep cylinder integrity, and pump in about a atmosphere. End result of almost 700 horse, completely civil. If you keep the stroke the same, but use the same exotic materials as in the LS7, 7500 rpm is achievable.

Of course, if they can reduce the weight below 2800 pounds, 600 horsepower is just fine!
I've been doing a lot of reading on the new AMG 6.3 litre engine. The Merc engineers say that with better breathing they can get their new engine easily over 540hp. Imagine if this engine was bored out to 7 litres. 600hp very very easy and civil.
 
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