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Car and Driver Confirms the future of Corvette, with a new twist

619 Views 15 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  6872C3, 
Longtimer
For those of you who have been following the C8 section since the beginning, you will recall that somewhere in the course of the "Here It is " threads we repeated the rumors and CAD drawing posts that showed a dual overhead cam, twin turbo V8 engine hooked up to the C8 transaxle and suspension. We also shared various horsepower predictions for the rumored model lineup for the C8. If Car and Driver is right about that model lineup, then we were also right: Stingray, Eray, Z06, ZR1, and the Zora. New? It seems that as of right now the Grand Sport DOES have a chance (against our prediction) to see production because the Eray was moved so far up (think $$$) the scale. The horsepower guesses we made - based on the 1000 HP Zora benchmark, compared to what C&D just published are very accurate.
Stingray 495 (possible HP bump at midcycle IF midcycle actually happens but that is a separate story I will cover in a different thread), Z06 670HP (I think we said 650-660), Eray 655 HP ( we said 650), ZR1 800-850 (same as we predicted), and the Zora at 1,000 HP as we all knew and C&D still confirms. So THIS is the future of the Corvette C8 sports car that we have discussed here for ...what...6-7 years?

New(er) stuff. If any of you have no life at all and have studied every word I have posted in 20 years here (please seek professional help is this describes you), I have been advocating an expansion of the Corvette Model line to include sedans and SUV for most or all of the last two decades. Why? Because I have always wanted to see a Corvette spin-off from Chevy and have its own dealership with its own salesmen (who actually KNOW Corvettes) and even better, its own Service Technicians who actually KNOW Corvettes and work on more of them than [Chevettes, Metros, Cavaliers, Sparks, Bolts, and Silverados]. Yeah, I know most of you, my fellow Corvetters, do NOT like the idea of expanding "Corvette" models or spinning off from Chevy. That's ok. It's why we have forums AND, BTW, I wouldn't have wanted it either before the C5 showed the world that GM DOES know how to build world-class cars and has kept getting better with each Vette Generation. So what?

What the history of Corvette in the 21st century proves to me, is that if GM makes a "Corvette" anything not-sports car, it will be good...no, excellent. It will cost much less than the other guys' vehicles that it outperforms and will be American in its attitude. However, in today's Bara GM, the phrase "New Models" is almost always quickly followed by a number having to do with batteries and a lie about how many miles it will go without a charge. So when we recenty heard that Covette would be getting an SUV and this news came out not long after the "Mustang" EV SUV, everyone - including me - assumed that the new Vette SUV would be EV.

Enter this month's Car & Driver with the surprise about the new, first-ever Corvette SUV(s). At LEAST the first Generation will be GASOLINE-POWERED!!! Add to that, the SUV platform will use the same platform as the Cadillac "4", "5" sedans, and the outgoing Camaro. C&D "strongly implies" that because of this, each of the Porsche SUV models is in the sights of the Corvette SUVs. They add that Cadillac-similar drive trains for each - with more power - will power the 10-speed auto, all-wheel drive Vettes. C&D says expect nice appointments and typical performance value advantages for the Vette SUVs...and will top out with the 6.2L Supercharged 650+HP V8 (from the escalade) in the larger (think Cad XT5) sized Vette SUV with 650+ HP with, bigger brakes, Magnetic suspension, and Corvette Engineering suspension tuning.

OK, ok, yes I'm already worked up about this - in anticipation. If GM screws the pooch on this thing, I'll be at the front of the line to throw rocks at it.

Below is the link to the Car & Driver article:
www.caranddriver.com

800-HP Corvette ZR-1, 1000-HP Zora Will Take the C8 Corvette Higher

These new versions use the Z06 as a starting point and will feature a twin-turbo version of its screaming flatplane-crank V-8.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
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B
A thousand horsepower for the street is just screwy, and anything above eight is mostly un-drivable, plus requires exotic maintenance for safety. Leave that high numbers stuff to the garage queens who sit around and then get sold before the milage hits 2,000 because the owners don't want a depreciation hit .


while I am a forever fan of Car and Driver , I just don't have the patience to read Car and Driver regularly anymore, too much sensationalism , innuendoes about product , like some kind of secret knowledge society among the readers, that never comes true, the boot licking , balanced against the actual presentation of facts.

I realize a lot of people enjoy the product, and I sometimes check out copies from the library to read, but my effection waned after so many times when the actual way they felt about a car was revealed only years later with some offhand remark the reinforces their credibility, like, everyone knows the transmission was no good on that car, stuff like that , that is only mentioned years later. Clearly that makes me too grumpy to enjoy mainstream media, so I just stick to reading autoweek and a few other media, for on line opinions. for hard industry news, I read The NY Times auto section.
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Triple dizzle
The only way to have a spin off corvette line is to be independent of GM’s production facilities. Corvette production at the corvette factory not at some Cadillac or other factory. That way you don’t end up with a cadvette.

I really don’t see that in the near future because the Bowling Green factory can’t keep up with Corvette demand. The only thing Cadillac has impressed me with is the ctsv Coupe and wagon. Those were are absolute beasts. I would trade my C6 for the wagon in a heartbeat. So I guess time will tell and I will wait and see.
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Longtimer
Triple dizzle said:
The only way to have a spin off corvette line is to be independent of GM’s production facilities. Corvette production at the corvette factory not at some Cadillac or other factory. That way you don’t end up with a cadvette.
Gm
I really don’t see that in the near future because the Bowling Green factory can’t keep up with Corvette demand. The only thing Cadillac has impressed me with is the ctsv Coupe and wagon. Those were are absolute beasts. I would trade my C6 for the wagon in a heartbeat. So I guess time will tell and I will wait and see.
Click to expand...
Did you know that the Camaro is made at the same factory as the CT4 and CT5 sedans from Cadillac? When Holden first got in trouble about 20+ years ago, GM took a long look at the Holden factory in Australia. What they found was the opposite of what they expected. The factory was so efficient that one assembly line was producing Zeta-based Commodores (sedans, coupes, and wagons), Utes (think El Camino), and Caprices (larger sedans and coupes[?]). The good news was GM learned a lot from the Holden Production group and brought it back to the US. Bowling Green benefitted a bit from some of the organizational practices reducing costs and times for producing their multiple models as did the Cadillac/Camaro Factory.

Look at the Lansing Grand River plant in Michigan. That assembly line produces the cheapest 4 Cyl Camaros, CT4s, and CT5s plus the V6s, V6 TT, V8s, and supercharged V8s. Ct4 & 5 model Vs, Blackwings, and the fastest Camaros up to the ZL1. No one ever confused a ZL1 with a Cad Blackwing. IMO, the greatest impact on producing all of these on the same line, is that the Camaros probably have the highest quality they have ever had.

I know you've seen a lot of factories - many, many more than I have seen. But from observation, if GM Lansing plant can produce good, quality CARS with the model variation we see there, isn't it possible they could duplicate that in...maybe the Cadillac Spring Hill Manufacturing where the XT 5 & 6 are made?
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Triple dizzle
I see your point. To me if it doesn’t come out of Bowling Green it’s a knock off. Corvettes To me need to be made by corvette people not on some line producing several other models. Oh and GM if I’m not mistaken closed the Holden facility or at least the name.

Look longtimer I-value your opinion you do wonderful research and I’m sure your probably correct. To me though the heart and soul of the Corvette were all those men and Women we saw on the line taking pride in the car they where assembling. Not some people at an plant making several different models where they have no real connection to the product the produce.

Being from this area I have had the occasion to meet several people that worked at the Corvette facility. Everyone of them are proud to tell you they helped build this car no not just a car but an Icon. One such person looked at my vin number pulled his phone to see if it was built on his shift at the plant. Your not going to get that kind of dedication at a plant making several models on the same line. Just saying.
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Longtimer
True. Neither Ford nor Holden (GM) could, even after achieving extremely high levels of efficiency in their factories, successfully compete with the lower Asisan factory wages and parts costs due to the very high volumes the Asians produce and export all over the world. The bottom line is that the Aussie people could not afford to buy the Holdens and Fords in a volume adequate to support those plants. Also, the Aussie government chose not to support those industries with tariffs to "level" the playing field.

Like you, I saw the pride the BG workers have in their work. They were friendly to us tourists and I never felt like I was not wanted as we looked at their work "over their shoulders." One of the big benefits to Corvette value is that the engineering costs for the Engine is amortized over hundreds of thousands of GM pickups, SUV, Camaros, Cads and even some commercial trucks. In the case of the SUV we will have to see what the design is, what chassis it shares, etc. The Porshe, VW , and Audit SUVs share parts. To me, as long as the Corvette engineers engineer it, develop it, test it, and oversee design, It's a Corvette. If BG gets expanded to build it, great, but if it's built on the same assembly line as Cadillacs, that's ok too.
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Triple dizzle
I sure your right. I’m just burnt out on SUV’s. They are everywhere. Every auto manufacture has several. I’m just thinking we’re going to end up with a corvette looking body on an existing chassis. Not a ground up design and that will end up being a disaster. Plus an an SUV that has handling is a rare bird in it’s self.
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Longtimer
We should expect an economics of scale just as the Excellent Cayenne shares parts with the VW and Audi. Obviously, the C8 chassis does not lend itself to being adapted into an SUV. Given the choices between a crossover based on 1) the Colorado platform, 2) the Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade chassis, 3) the CT4/CT5/Camaro/XT4/ XT5 XT6 chassis, or 4) a unique chassis for only the Corvette SUV that would start at $150,000, I'd choose 3) that is due for a next gen anyway. This would be a perfect time to design this new gen crossover platform to incorporate whatever capabilities the Corvette Engineering Team prioritizes - including a unique Corvette-only body.
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swishersherry0
The SUV deal is just a money grab. Lamb and Porsche dealers need the added volume but Chevy and Corvette can easily survive with there number of SUV models they have. Here is my concern. Damaged name equity. We have 70 years of good name equity and if they make a lousy SUV it can destroy the name. Think not just look at Cadillac at what it once was and now what it is. Bad product choices took a hollowed name and destroyed it and now it is fighting to come back. Look Corvette is a 2 seat sports car in several levels not a brand. Porsche did not call their VW based SUV a 911 did they? If GM was smart they would do a Sport SUV and use a new name or a well recognized name like Nomad. It was a Sport wagon and it even was a Corvette Show car. Then they would say Nomad tuned by Team Corvette. This way it leverages the name but does not risk the name. Also look at Olds. They had a top coupe in the Cutlass. It sold in great numbers. Then they applied Cutlass to several FWD cars and all were failures and damaged the Cutlass name. This is not a purist thing it is a bit of business sense. GM screwed up on Hummer the first time by making it a brand and it should have been a model at GMC. It would have been easier to manage and also cheaper. In the end it got cut in the bail out do to cost and finally brought back to GMC as it should have been in the first place. Companies in the name of money damage names and images and it is a shame as they are so hard to earn and preserve. GM has two really high equity names now one in the Corvette and the other in the Denali name. People will pay much for the image that is related to these trucks. That is hard to do. just look at the percentage of GMC models sold that are Denali vs High Country or even the King Ranch lines.
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Norm 1
It's all BS, C&D's effort to make money or get clicks. I heard (can't verify) GM says it ain't happening.

"Yeah, let's water down the name like Mustang did, yeah that's the ticket!" ..........😁
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Triple dizzle
I’m with Norm on this one. Believe it when I see it. Plus l’m to old to give a flying you know what.
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Longtimer
swishersherry0 said:
The SUV deal is just a money grab.
Click to expand...
You are entitled to your opinion but it seems to be based on VERY FEW facts. The Porsche and Lamborghini SUV are high performance vehicles. They are not just re-labeled vehicles. There are many Unique components on the Porsche SUVs that are not on their VW Cousins. Go drive one of the VW SUVs and then drive its Porsche counter part and you will not know they are related in any way. You WILL see why the Porsche SUV have earned their names. If you haven't done this (I have) you don't have all the FACTS. Anything Porsche can do, GM can do better.

GM produces only one high performance SUV; the Cadillac Escalade-V which is Tahoe/Suburban based - not a fit for anything "Corvette." It is BIG and pretty fast but NOT sporty. There are no Sporty SUV coming out of GM.

Yes, this a HUGE opportunity for GM to either SHINE or return to its past MISTAKES. They can once again assume that car buyers are stupid and just slap a Corvette badge on an XT4 with some body mods, or they will give Tadge's Team a big budget and turn him loose. Again, if Porsche can do it, the Corvette team can do it better.
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Norm 1
Anybody know specifically what entity, groups, or individuals that are pulling for a Corvette monikered SUV?
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Triple dizzle
GM can do better but will they? If they do better can they sale an SUV at the price point it would take to turn a profit.

Porsche and Lamborghini customers are upper class with disposable income not working class stiffs buying their dream car. I personally couldn’t afford a new corvette and bought a low mileage used one. So GM should look long and hard at who buys Corvettes. As they say “ stay in your lane”.
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Longtimer
Only time will tell. I suspect that Tadge will be asked a LOT of questions this Summer at Corvette Events and we will begin to get the information leaks. IF he says something like, "My team hasn't been involved yet" then MY hopes will be dashed. We've already heard that it will have a powerful V8, so the Vette Team better be working on making the most of that power right now for a 2025 model year release.
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6872C3
I'm on that other side and count early C3 and 2nd gen C4 as the most satisfying corvettes I've owned. I'm not all fond of the 'mustang' suv, or the ever increasing horsepower. What would get me into a C8 would be a bare bones car vice a luxury car, back to the sports car days. 400hp is enough, minimum nanny functions, put it out the door for under 50k and produce enough that they aren't sold via scalpers :)
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