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Ready for another cash for clunkers program? It looks like General Motors is attempting to replace it's own consumer incentives with tax payer money. The car company, bailed out of bankruptcy in 2009 by the American tax payer, appears to be turning the government into an automatic rebate provider.

The Obama administration and their friends on Capitol Hill are floating around a proposal to change the $7500 tax credit for green vehicles. This change can be found not only in President Barack Obama's budget but also a bill proposed by Senator Debbie Stabenow, Michigan Democrat.

Edmunds.com, a 45 year old trade magazine company that provides automotive information, posted a Department of Energy document listing the department's funding highlights. The proposed Obama Budget, changes the existing $7,500 electric vehicle tax credit “into a rebate that will be available to all consumers immediately at the point of sale.”

According to Senator Stabenow's website, her proposed legislation, known as the "Charging America Forward Act" (S.298), "will provide consumers with a rebate worth up to $7500 for plug-in electric vehicles at the time of purchase."

Essentially, if one were to buy a $41,000 Chevy Volt, the buyer gets a $7,500 coupon, so the final price is $33,500. In the end, the auto dealer assumes the risk of the government giving them this tax credit.

It is pretty convenient that Ms. Stabenow, who represents a state where GM is headquartered is pushing a bill that is also supported by Edison Electric Institute, whose president was loaned a Chevy Volt, Eaton Corp: the sole American producer of car recharge systems, and Battery Electric Vehicle Coalition, a lobbying group for the electric car industry.

In fact, Department of Energy's David Sandalow told Bloomberg News in February the insta-credit would operate the “same way the 2009 ‘Cash for Clunkers’ program worked.”

The Detroit News reported Vice President Joe Biden said at an Indiana battery assembly plant, "You won’t have to wait,’ it would be like the cash-for-clunkers program.”

GM is likely the most excited about this instant credit plan. “General Motors supports the instant credit saying the bill “integrates all of the components necessary for successful acceleration of electric vehicles in the marketplace," The Detroit News reported.

Is the United States really prepared to deal with another tax payer paid for deal that will only benefit the now government owned GM? After all, did Cash for Clunkers part one really work out for the tax payers and auto dealers? Washington, D.C. based organization Americans for Tax Reform didn't think so and wrote in late October of 2009:

The program began on July 24th with a budget of $1 billion and by July 30th they were out of money. Giving people “free” money to buy cars is definitely popular. Congress then allocated another $2 billion that lasted almost until the end of August. That’s right, $3 billion in under a month. The program didn’t help the economy or auto industry. Despite a bump in the 3rd quarter to GDP and auto sales, consumer spending dropped 0.5% in September and the vehicle output bump was artificial and unsustainable, meaning it will drop off considerably in the next quarter as the market stabilizes to its real level. As Nick Gillespie and Veronique de Rugy pointed out today over at Reason, even the reported GDP bump is misleading, because is includes government spending. So if government spending increases it will increase the GDP, but that doesn’t mean any more was produced.

There are also the unseen costs of this program. By encouraging people to junk older vehicles, they lowered the supply of cheap used cars. When you lower supply and keep demand stable, the price goes up. With fewer used cars on the market, the prices for remaining used cars increases. This will make it more difficult for younger drivers or low income drivers to buy cars to get to work or school. (A video by Congressman Ron Paul further explains how it hurts the poor here.) At least the wealthy got a handout to buy their brand new cars though right?

Unfortunately, when ideas turn bad, it does not preclude another similar bad idea to be proposed later on.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/mar/29/cash-clunkers-2-dumped-capitol-hill/
 

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Don't forget that the White house also eliminated GM's tax bill of $43B to make their bottom line look good, so they can show that they are able to payback some of their tax payer loan:crazy:
 

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Beings the government is so Green

Where's the Green Fuel ???????

It would nice if we had a choice at the pumps to buy E85 or regular old Arab oil

This would give the consumer a choice to "not support" OPEC if price's sky rocket, also we would be able to flood the market with E85 and this would help bring the price down on the Low quality Arab mix currently available

And by way of free enterprise this would help to stabilize the economy and durable goods:nuts:

As of right now a Monopoly exists which is bad for consumers
 

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Beings the government is so Green

Where's the Green Fuel ???????

It would nice if we had a choice at the pumps to buy E85 or regular old Arab oil

This would give the consumer a choice to "not support" OPEC if price's sky rocket, also we would be able to flood the market with E85 and this would help bring the price down on the Low quality Arab mix currently available

And by way of free enterprise this would help to stabilize the economy and durable goods:nuts:

As of right now a Monopoly exists which is bad for consumers
Can we get your user i.d. corrected to "E85"? :laughing: You sure do preach it a lot.
 

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E85 would have to be a careful balance...produce too much from corn and the price would go up. E85 sucks on gas mileage as well...I lost an average of 20% gas mileage using it. The tax incentive to "immediate rebate" sounds like a way to just shift money around. Its like as soon as the money goes from our checks to the federal government...it gets routed and redefined in different packages to make it sound like we are getting a good deal. If the rebate is paid for by the government, then its paid for by the people...and GM gets the full price of the vehicle...or profit. If we get a tax credit on it...then we dont pay the tax on that portion of the price but GM gets the profit anyway... Ultimately it would mean more money in the consumers pocket rather than a little less money at the end of the year...but it was our money to begin with. Its like asking me to give 7500 to someone i dont know because they bought a green vehicle...Id rather spend that on a supercharger system.
 

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E85 would have to be a careful balance...produce too much from corn and the price would go up. E85 sucks on gas mileage as well...I lost an average of 20% gas mileage using it. The tax incentive to "immediate rebate" sounds like a way to just shift money around. Its like as soon as the money goes from our checks to the federal government...it gets routed and redefined in different packages to make it sound like we are getting a good deal. If the rebate is paid for by the government, then its paid for by the people...and GM gets the full price of the vehicle...or profit. If we get a tax credit on it...then we dont pay the tax on that portion of the price but GM gets the profit anyway... Ultimately it would mean more money in the consumers pocket rather than a little less money at the end of the year...but it was our money to begin with. Its like asking me to give 7500 to someone i dont know because they bought a green vehicle...Id rather spend that on a supercharger system.
I mainly want E85 so that 0 of my dollars goes to the middle east or some other foreign country

1. I don't want to fund OPEC or the US oil corps
anymore

2. By buying E85 my money stays here in the USA

3. If gas and oil prices go through the roof

I want to flood the Market with E85:nuts:
 

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I mainly want E85 so that 0 of my dollars goes to the middle east or some other foreign country

1. I don't want to fund OPEC or the US oil corps
anymore

2. By buying E85 my money stays here in the USA

3. If gas and oil prices go through the roof

I want to flood the Market with E85:nuts:
with a little research you would find how impossible that truely is. we do not have enough farmable land to go completely E85- there just is not enough land to grow corn on, plus then all of our food corn/feed corn would be imported....
 

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Can we get your user i.d. corrected to "E85"? :laughing: You sure do preach it a lot.
Yeah, I want a tool to use against the Oil corps here within the U.S and Break-up that Oil Monopoly.
I also want to De-fund Opec

I prefer to spend my money here at home in the U.S

even if it cost's me more money

That way American family's will have a Job to go to

Then they in return will buy house's cars, Medical insurance and pay taxes etc:

That's how it all work's Booooo

Sorry but it's true :laughing:
 

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what about all the other products that come from crude oil, have any replacements for those? propane? plastic? food preservatives? make up? black top? grease? those items make up a larger % of each barrel of crude oil than gas does....plus after refining for the other products the gasoline will still be left over....
 

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what about all the other products that come from crude oil, have any replacements for those? propane? plastic? food preservatives? make up? black top? grease? those items make up a larger % of each barrel of crude oil than gas does....plus after refining for the other products the gasoline will still be left over....

We dont have to go 100% E85

Just enough to throw the ball back in our court

Even if we had to Import some of the sugar from around the world

It would make a huge difference here in the USA :nuts:

propane, plastic would still come from Oil

See I can tell your an Either or Kinda guy

That kind of thinking doesn't work very well in life

Learn to Expand your perception a little

by learning to improvise:nuts:
 

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We dont have to go 100% E85

Just enough to throw the ball back in our court

Even if we had to Import some of the sugar from around the world

It would make a huge difference here in the USA :nuts:

propane, plastic would still come from Oil

See I can tell your an Either or Kinda guy

That kind of thinking doesn't work very well in life

Learn to Expand your perception a little

by learning to improvise:nuts:
Why are we using corn when there are other plants that produce better amount of fuel in turn, i.e. switch grass. If we are going to use any bio product, why not use the one that works better?:huh:
 

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thats just it though, currently you cant have both- e85 is too costly and not nearly available enough. it would take years to build the infrastructure to make it practical- assuming no price gouging and having it be cheaper than reg to begin with. we would still need the other parts of oil- so our overall demand wouldnt decline that much. it may even increase with all the construction that would result from creating the infrastructure for e85
 

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Why would any plant reduce the profits from making refined sugar... for a less profitable fuel additive ? (That is, after all, exactly what it is) In doing this... sugar prices increase... thereby increasing the cost of goods containing sugar. Sometimes the most -best economical and abutment energy, is the tried and true process of the past and present. But, it's not new and sexy... therefore, there will always be those that are not satisfied... at any cost.
 

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Why are we using corn when there are other plants that produce better amount of fuel in turn, i.e. switch grass. If we are going to use any bio product, why not use the one that works better?:huh:
I dont know buddy

I'm not an expert on E85

But whatever they make it out of, I would like to have a choice at the pumps

I dont care if they Ramp up production here in the US,
as well as Import E85 till we reach a point where we can meets demands here in the U.S all on our own

I just dont want to Fund the middle east anymore:nuts:
 

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I dont know buddy

I'm not an expert on E85

But whatever they make it out of, I would like to have a choice at the pumps
We do have a choice at the pumps. 9 out of 10 stations around here offer E85. It's just ineficient and the price savings is not there compared to regular gas, so no one buys it. If not for Gubmint subsidies, there would be NO E85 production. :crazy:
 

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We do have a choice at the pumps. 9 out of 10 stations around here offer E85. It's just ineficient and the price savings is not there compared to regular gas, so no one buys it. If not for Gubmint subsidies, there would be NO E85 production. :crazy:

Son

I have one dream in life

And that is to further educate your ass

100% of the profits from E85 stay right here in the USA

Those employed by E85 producers, buy Houses, Cars and their own medical insurance etc:

For every gallon of E85 you buy that's one less gallon for OPEC to profit from

Also Gas and Oil is Subsidized as well

Thats how it got its start in the US

Before that we used ethanol like the Germans did during World war II


Doing things your way

We will continue to send 2 billion dollars a day off to some foreign country or Regime

Of which we will have to go to war for at sometime in the future

And that costs Billions $$$$$$$$$
 

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Son

I have one dream in life

And that is to further educate your ass

100% of the profits from E85 stay right here in the USA

Those employed by E85 producers, buy Houses, Cars and their own medical insurance etc:

For every gallon of E85 you buy that's one less gallon for OPEC to profit from

Also Gas and Oil is Subsidized as well

Thats how it got its start in the US

Before that we used ethanol like the Germans did during World war II


Doing things your way

We will continue to send 2 billion dollars a day off to some foreign country or Regime

Of which we will have to go to war for at sometime in the future

And that costs Billions $$$$$$$$$
Do you also realize that some of the other countries that are complaining about the price of food word wide is part due to the US burning food for energy?
 
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