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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I never would have expected this from a Chicago court room.



http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/new...ation-joshua-funches-killed-dog-lawn-20101229

Joliet, Ill. - A University Park grandfather who gunned down a dog owner after the man’s pet urinated on his lawn escaped a prison term Wednesday when a Will County judge sentenced him to four years of probation.

The penalty imposed on 69-year-old Charles Clements drew groans from relatives of 23-year-old Joshua Funches, who was shot to death during a clash that erupted after his fox terrier wet Clements’ carefully-tended front yard.

“This is certainly not justice. This is not justice,” said Gail Williams, Funches’ aunt.

Clements, a Marine Corps veteran and retired truck driver, faced up to 20 years behind bars after being convicted earlier of second-degree murder for the May 9 shooting outside his home.

A Will County jury, however, refused to convict Clements of a more serious charge of first-degree murder for the shooting, which occurred after Funches punched Clements in the face while the men argued about the dog’s actions.

For his part, Judge Daniel J. Rozak rejected a prison term.

Funches, the father of three young children, was walking his dog in the 500 block of Landau Road in the far south suburb when his pet wandered onto Clements’ yard and relieved itself.

Clements confronted him about the dog’s actions and at one point took a .45-caliber pistol out of his pocket.

But Clements didn’t fire the weapon until after Funches cursed at him, then punched him in the face, according to testimony during his October trial.

Clements told police he shot Funches once in the abdomen because he feared the younger man would harm him.
 

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Well, you can't just walk onto a guys property and assault him without repercussions.. this is pretty strange for chicago though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, you can't just walk onto a guys property and assault him without repercussions.. this is pretty strange for chicago though.
:agree:
I'd just expect the liberal courts in the jurisdiction to take his gun and throw the book at him.

Bravo to the judge for a level headed decision. :thumbsup:
 

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I could go in so many directions with this thread but I will refrain and just say... damn.
 

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Really, over dog piss????

What? Does he gun down every gull and lark that flies over out of fear that they will **** on his yard?

We're not getting the whole story here, and assault is NOT a reason to use deadly force...

I expected more from a FORMER marine...:down:
 

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Really, over dog piss????

What? Does he gun down every gull and lark that flies over out of fear that they will **** on his yard?

We're not getting the whole story here, and assault is NOT a reason to use deadly force...

I expected more from a FORMER marine...:down:
A bit over the top ain't it.

That being said, nothing annoys me more than dog poop on the sidewalk.
 

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Why would he have a gun in his possession when he confronted the dog owner, and was it initially concealed?

Something doesn't make sense. :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Really, over dog piss????

What? Does he gun down every gull and lark that flies over out of fear that they will **** on his yard?

We're not getting the whole story here, and assault is NOT a reason to use deadly force...

I expected more from a FORMER marine...:down:
According to the local news stations and news paper articles that I've read, the "victim" in the case was a 20 something with an attitude walking his dog who went out of his way to allow the dog to deficate on the man's lawn. The "gunman" was an elderly retired Marine with an immaculant lawn. Now add in the fact that the neighborhood is questionable and the retired marine takes great pride in the care and appearance of his home and lawn (all the neighbors knew it).... it was pretty much stated that the kid allowed/directed his animal to the man's lawn on purpose. The Marine witnessed the act and verbally confronted the "victim" from his own lawn. The kid then got in the old man's face and physically threatend him, on the old man's own lawn. The old man was carrying and revealed his weapen in attempt to scare off the kid. The kid then forced himself on to the older retired Marine and punched him in the face. The Marine then fired into the kid's stomach, at close range, in self defense as he felt his life was in jeapordy.

I say good for the home owner. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Why would he have a gun in his possession when he confronted the dog owner, and was it initially concealed?

Something doesn't make sense. :crazy:
Questionable neighborhood. On his own lawn.
Originally concealed, but he revealed it to the "victim" at the beginning of the confrontation in an attempt to make the "victim" leave his yard. The "victim" still forced himself upon the "shooter" even though he knew the guy was packing.

:crazy:
 

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According to the local news stations and news paper articles that I've read, the "victim" in the case was a 20 something with an attitude walking his dog who went out of his way to allow the dog to deficate on the man's lawn. The "gunman" was an elderly retired Marine with an immaculant lawn. Now add in the fact that the neighborhood is questionable and the retired marine takes great pride in the care and appearance of his home and lawn (all the neighbors knew it).... it was pretty much stated that the kid allowed/directed his animal to the man's lawn on purpose. The Marine witnessed the act and verbally confronted the "victim" from his own lawn. The kid then got in the old man's face and physically threatend him, on the old man's own lawn. The old man was carrying and revealed his weapen in attempt to scare off the kid. The kid then forced himself on to the older retired Marine and punched him in the face. The Marine then fired into the kid's stomach, at close range, in self defense as he felt his life was in jeapordy.

I say good for the home owner. :thumbsup:
If the animal had deficated on the lawn, I could understand, but piss?

I still don't feel that a simple assault is a reason to use deadly force. Especially since the homeowner escalated the situation. The kid didn't hit the old man until HIS life was threatened by the old fart.

On the other hand, if I'm out walking either of my dogs, and they piss, and then someone threatens my dogs or I because of piss by brandishing a weapon when it's uncalled for, they wouldn't be the one walking away...

I'm just saying, it's only piss, get over it. There's no reason to pull a gun because my dog pissed on your property and I told you to get the **** over it...
 

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If the animal had deficated on the lawn, I could understand, but piss?

I still don't feel that a simple assault is a reason to use deadly force. Especially since the homeowner escalated the situation. The kid didn't hit the old man until HIS life was threatened by the old fart.

On the other hand, if I'm out walking either of my dogs, and they piss, and then someone threatens my dogs or I because of piss by brandishing a weapon when it's uncalled for, they wouldn't be the one walking away...

I'm just saying, it's only piss, get over it. There's no reason to pull a gun because my dog pissed on your property and I told you to get the **** over it...
According to the local news stations and news paper articles that I've read, the "victim" in the case was a 20 something with an attitude walking his dog who went out of his way to allow the dog to deficate on the man's lawn. The "gunman" was an elderly retired Marine with an immaculant lawn. Now add in the fact that the neighborhood is questionable and the retired marine takes great pride in the care and appearance of his home and lawn (all the neighbors knew it).... it was pretty much stated that the kid allowed/directed his animal to the man's lawn on purpose. The Marine witnessed the act and verbally confronted the "victim" from his own lawn. The kid then got in the old man's face and physically threatend him, on the old man's own lawn. The old man was carrying and revealed his weapen in attempt to scare off the kid. The kid then forced himself on to the older retired Marine and punched him in the face. The Marine then fired into the kid's stomach, at close range, in self defense as he felt his life was in jeapordy.
....I think the point is "the kid" assaulted the older guy on
his own property, no matter if it was over urine or not, an
assault had taken place and the man felt threaten by further
physical harm..... trespassing and assault adds up to
defensive means, I think I would have shot him in a leg or
arm or foot, but a split second decision had to be made,
you can kill and older person or even a younger person
with a single blow depending upon the physical condition....
 

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....I think the point is "the kid" assaulted the older guy on
his own property, no matter if it was over urine or not, an
assault had taken place and the man felt threaten by further
physical harm..... trespassing and assault adds up to
defensive means, I think I would have shot him in a leg or
arm or foot, but a split second decision had to be made,
you can kill and older person or even a younger person
with a single blow depending upon the physical condition....
Yeah, and I don't care whose property you are on, when you pull a gun YOU escalate the situation to the point of deadly force.

I'm glad that the old bastard was convicted of 2nd degree murder, but I'm not very happy that he's back out on the street to kill someone else over dog urine. I don't care if he's Clint Eastwood himself, you simply cannot act that way. The wrong person died here. I've been in ONE situation in my life where I could've justified brandishing a weapon, except I didn't have one, and it wasn't over some guy letting his dog piss on my lawn. In order to pull a weapon and be justified in using it you must not escalate the situation in any way beforehand and you must fear for your life. Some one cussing at you is NOT a reason for you to fear for your life.
 

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Yeah, and I don't care whose property you are on, when you pull a gun YOU escalate the situation to the point of deadly force.

I'm glad that the old bastard was convicted of 2nd degree murder, but I'm not very happy that he's back out on the street to kill someone else over dog urine. I don't care if he's Clint Eastwood himself, you simply cannot act that way. The wrong person died here. I've been in ONE situation in my life where I could've justified brandishing a weapon, except I didn't have one, and it wasn't over some guy letting his dog piss on my lawn. In order to pull a weapon and be justified in using it you must not escalate the situation in any way beforehand and you must fear for your life. Some one cussing at you is NOT a reason for you to fear for your life.
So are you saying you do not have the right to show a gun (or weapon) when ordering someone off your property?
 

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Yeah, and I don't care whose property you are on, when you pull a gun YOU escalate the situation to the point of deadly force.

I'm glad that the old bastard was convicted of 2nd degree murder, but I'm not very happy that he's back out on the street to kill someone else over dog urine. I don't care if he's Clint Eastwood himself, you simply cannot act that way. The wrong person died here. I've been in ONE situation in my life where I could've justified brandishing a weapon, except I didn't have one, and it wasn't over some guy letting his dog piss on my lawn. In order to pull a weapon and be justified in using it you must not escalate the situation in any way beforehand and you must fear for your life. Some one cussing at you is NOT a reason for you to fear for your life.
...maybe I missed your point are you saying the older
man should have died instead....:huh:

...after showing them you are armed and does not back them
off, then getting punched in the face, I think fear of your life is justified, ....

...brandishing a weapon while on your own property would
seem to me he was telling the other guy, he was protecting
himself, if he had followed the younger guy and was not
on his property then I probably would be inclined to agree
with you...
 
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